C William Nylander (2014, 8th, TOR) VI

[Leafs at Knight]

I mean it's fine to be confident in your prospects and all, but to act as if it's probable that not one but two center prospects from the same organization are going to be better than a player who is one of the Calder frontrunners and who has the best +/- in the NHL as a rookie... lol, just wow

-/+ ..

 

[WilliamNylander]

lol at the +/- guy...come on man its not the 1980s anymore.

OT: Nylander has 17 points in his last 10 games. Heating up for real

 

[obey86]

Don't tell me missing 3 weeks of AHL games for an international tournament against the best of your age group is going to hamper his development. If anything it would be good experience for Nylander.

He's going to dominate those players even more than he's dominating the AHL right now.

 

[obey86]

Interesting how +/- went from (rightly) being a garbage stat on HF when Ovechkin was -82, to now everyone referencing it when a Red Wing player is doing well in it.

Making a note that Justah Faulifin is a +/- believer.

Every stat on its own is garbage with no context.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Interesting how +/- went from (rightly) being a garbage stat on HF when Ovechkin was -82, to now everyone referencing it when a Red Wing player is doing well in it.

Making a note that Justah Faulifin is a +/- believer.

comparing players from different teams probably isn't the best way to look at it, but I think it does hold some value when you compare him to the rest of the team. Larkin is +12, while the 2nd highest on the team is Brendan Smith at +4. Zetterberg, Tatar, Nyquist, Green, Kronwall, Abdelkader, Dekeyser etc.. are all minus players so far.


As for Nylander. I watched the game tonight, and as usual, he looked really good. I dont think calling him the best player in the AHL is ridiculous at all. Although I'd still like to see some more intensity in his game.

I also think they should send him to the World Juniors. Watching the game tonight, the pace of the game was pretty slow, and there was very little intensity. Once you get past the Round Robin in the WJC, the pace of the game is amazing at times. Let him go there and play against Canada, Russia and USA. Games with great pace and intensity, then call him up to the Leafs when the tournament is over.

 

[Kelly]

comparing players from different teams probably isn't the best way to look at it, but I think it does hold some value when you compare him to the rest of the team. Larkin is +12, while the 2nd highest on the team is Brendan Smith at +4. Zetterberg, Tatar, Nyquist, Green, Kronwall, Abdelkader, Dekeyser etc.. are all minus players so far.


As for Nylander. I watched the game tonight, and as usual, he looked really good. I dont think calling him the best player in the AHL is ridiculous at all. Although I'd still like to see some more intensity in his game.

I also think they should send him to the World Juniors. Watching the game tonight, the pace of the game was pretty slow, and there was very little intensity. Once you get past the Round Robin in the WJC, the pace of the game is amazing at times. Let him go there and play against Canada, Russia and USA. Games with great pace and intensity, then call him up to the Leafs when the tournament is over.

Mark Fraser led the Leafs in +/- in 12/13 with a +18 -- played bottom pairing minutes basically the whole time, while Phaneuf (-4) would draw top competition night in and night out. Using +/- maybe more useful comparing players on the same team, but all in all is still a pretty useless stat if ignoring the context of quality of competition, games, and minutes played. I agree in Larkin's case being the highest on a team by that much that involves players like Z, Kronwall, Green etc can only mean good things.

 

[obey86]

Mark Fraser led the Leafs in +/- in 12/13 with a +18 -- played bottom pairing minutes basically the whole time, while Phaneuf (-4) would draw top competition night in and night out. Using +/- maybe more useful comparing players on the same team, but all in all is still a pretty useless stat if ignoring the context of quality of competition, games, and minutes played.

If any of that actually applied to Larkin you may have a point. But it doesn't. Larkin certainly isn't playing against weak competition. He plays on the 1st line.

Find another reason to cut him down

And I completely understand that +/- isn't a perfect stat and there is definitely some luck there with him when it comes to that stat. But it's certainly not because he's playing weak competition compared to everyone else...I can tell you that.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I mean it's fine to be confident in your prospects and all, but to act as if it's probable that not one but two center prospects from the same organization are going to be better than a player who is one of the Calder frontrunners and who has the best +/- in the NHL as a rookie... lol, just wow

+\- doesn't mean a damn thing and have you seen what Nylander and Marner are doing?

Nylander has 23 points in 17 games in the AHL to lead the league in scoring , he is tied for the AHL lead in goals with 10 and if you insist on bringing +\- into this he is +8, he is also 19 and is CLEARLY ready for the NHL NWO but is being kept down in the AHL because the Leafs aren't good and Nylander doesn't need to be in a losing atmosphere right now.

Marner has 39 points in 19 games, and again if you want to bring +\- into this and I don't know why you would it's useless but you did, so OK Marner is +17 he is making the OHL look like a joke, he is WAY to good for OHL but he can't be in the AHL where he should be this year so he is stuck in the OHL next year they will both be in the NHL and it wouldn't shock to see one or both up for Rookie of the year assuming they stay healthy.

Because YES they are both better than Larkin

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Larkin's bound to have a very high +/- compared to the rest of his teammates when Dylan has an inflated on-ice sh% (a ridiculous 3.20% higher than the next best Red Wing forward.. which is going to go decrease as the season rolls along), and the 2nd highest offensive zone starts amongst Wing forwards.

Anyways, I'm pretty neutral on whether the Leafs should send Nylander to the WJCs or not, but it sounds more and more like they will be keeping him and Kapanen with the Marlies.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Mark Fraser led the Leafs in +/- in 12/13 with a +18 -- played bottom pairing minutes basically the whole time, while Phaneuf (-4) would draw top competition night in and night out. Using +/- maybe more useful comparing players on the same team, but all in all is still a pretty useless stat if ignoring the context of quality of competition, games, and minutes played. I agree in Larkin's case being the highest on a team by that much that involves players like Z, Kronwall, Green etc can only mean good things.

Yep, context is definitely important. It doesn't mean the world at this point, but its a good sign.

 

[Sebastian Svechnikov]

Interesting how +/- went from (rightly) being a garbage stat on HF when Ovechkin was -82, to now everyone referencing it when a Red Wing player is doing well in it.

Making a note that Justah Faulifin is a +/- believer.

first off, I'm not a Red Wings fan. Second, whether or not +/- is a truly meaningful statistic, it's still impressive for a rookie to be leading the NHL in the category. Third, nitpicking a portion of the post to not address the overarching theme of it tells me that you likely agree with my general point.

In fact take away the statistics all together if you like. The EYE test tells me Larkin may already be the Red Wings best forward, and if not the best then most certainly the second best. So yes, you will have to excuse me if I find it laughable for someone to definitively suggest that their team has two centers in the prospect pipeline who will be better than a player who has the look of a future franchise center. And they make this claim despite neither of the two having played a game at the NHL level. I mean do you not see how silly that sounds to a neutral observer?

And for the record, to prove their is no bias towards the Red Wings on my part, I believe Nylander is also a future 1st line center in the NHL and I believe he has a chance to be in the same tier of player as Larkin, with Larkin being the better two player. Marner on the other hand has a lower ceiling than either Larkin or Nylander, imho.

carry on...

 

[Kamiccolo]

Why do I need to read through Larkin posts for the rare Nylander comment? GTFO, pump your chest next year when Nylander is miles better...

I want to know if Nylander who can score 2PPG this year, even if he goes 1.5PPG, it has to be a short list of players who went 1.5PPG at 19?

 

[BigBen]

He's going to dominate those players even more than he's dominating the AHL right now.

Yeah Nylander is too good for the world juniors, my bad.

 

[Kelly]

If any of that actually applied to Larkin you may have a point. But it doesn't. Larkin certainly isn't playing against weak competition. He plays on the 1st line.

Find another reason to cut him down

And I completely understand that +/- isn't a perfect stat and there is definitely some luck there with him when it comes to that stat. But it's certainly not because he's playing weak competition compared to everyone else...I can tell you that.

How am I cutting Larkin down? Relax man.

I'm just using an example as to why comparing +/- between team players isn't as accurate as one would think.

It's getting really annoying how Larkin's name is mentioned more in a Nylander thread though.

 

[Canada4Gold]

It's getting really annoying how Larkin's name is mentioned more in a Nylander thread though.

true dat, lets talk about Ehlers instead

 

[Black Noise]

Why do I need to read through Larkin posts for the rare Nylander comment? GTFO, pump your chest next year when Nylander is miles better...

I want to know if Nylander who can score 2PPG this year, even if he goes 1.5PPG, it has to be a short list of players who went 1.5PPG at 19?

How? He's at 1.3 PPG, which is incredible. But 2.0PPG? Seriously dude...he isn't that good.

 

[obey86]

Yeah Nylander is too good for the world juniors, my bad.

Honestly, he is.

 

[Redwingsfan]

Alright, lets leave the moderating to the mods. Even though this is a Nylander thread, he will be compared to other prospects. It goes with the territory. If it gets way off topic we'll take care of it. If you think a post is breaking the rules, report it. Thank you.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Yeah Nylander is too good for the world juniors, my bad.

He led the tournament in scoring on a bad sweden team last year and now he's a lot better, about 15-20lbs of muscle heavier and mcdavid/eichel/domi etc are all gone.

Yes he is too good for that tournament.

 

[KGL]

How? He's at 1.3 PPG, which is incredible. But 2.0PPG? Seriously dude...he isn't that good.

Agreed. No one is that good. That'd be over 150 points.

He's on pace for over 100 points as it is, that's pretty amazing at 19.

 

[obey86]

He led the tournament in scoring on a bad sweden team last year and now he's a lot better, about 15-20lbs of muscle heavier and mcdavid/eichel/domi etc are all gone.

Yes he is too good for that tournament.

Exactly. Staying in the AHL or moving up to the NHL would be better for his development than playing in a tournament against a bunch of junior players. He's past that level at this point.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Exactly. Staying in the AHL or moving up to the NHL would be better for his development than playing in a tournament against a bunch of junior players. He's past that level at this point.

Exactly. Dominating against 16-19 year olds won't do anything for him. I think about the most I'd be interested in seeing is Matthews lining up against Nylander and see how their lines go head to head...but there is still 5 other guys on the ice.

 

[Hero]

How? He's at 1.3 PPG, which is incredible. But 2.0PPG? Seriously dude...he isn't that good.

In his last 7 games played he has 13 points. 1 shy of 2 PPG

I don't think he can score enough to get to 2.0 on season, but I think he can get up to 1.5

 

[Pi]

Why do I need to read through Larkin posts for the rare Nylander comment? GTFO, pump your chest next year when Nylander is miles better...

I want to know if Nylander who can score 2PPG this year, even if he goes 1.5PPG, it has to be a short list of players who went 1.5PPG at 19?

Funny thing is Nylander's point equivalency would be higher than Larkin's right now.

If he puts up anywhere close to 1.25-3 PPG that would be better than the 40-45 points Larkin will put up.

Nylander is easily more skilled than Larkin. Larkin is the better all round player right now though.

 

[Semantics]

Earlier in the year I thought he should be released to the WJC, but I've changed my mind. It's now clear that he's progressed well beyond that level of hockey. There's even a chance the Leafs could call him up as early as Jan 19, so it doesn't make sense to me for him to miss 6-8 AHL games and switch focus twice right before that date. That is a good amount of time he could spend continuing to fine tune his pro game, and a meaningful amount of pro experience.