C William Nylander (2014, 8th, TOR) VI

[Ovate]

Belee dat:

[NHL]832424[/NHL]

Interesting. Thanks for the link!

 

[gamer1035]

Belee dat:

[NHL]832424[/NHL]

We must be missing another conversation. I'm guessing they cut it out of the 6 minute video.

It says the offer is available if Hanafin is available. Hanafin was available. Where is the conversation of Toronto calling again, or the Jackets calling Toronto to reject the trade offer before the leafs picked Marner?

They clearly cut that footage, and I can only assume so because it was bad for the jackets. Maybe they called to accept the offer but Toronto backed out.

 

[haulinbass]

I can honestly say I am glad we didn't make neither deal even with Lsrkin in the NHL now Nylander will be better shortly Same with Marner.

Marner is even better than Nylander and that's scary

Both will be stars

How do you figure these guys will be better than Larkin? Larkin is the future captain of Detroit, it's already crystal clear because he is already that good and is that type of player. Not to many players come into the NHL at Larkin's age and have a hockey IQ of an elite seasoned vet. Let alone his exceptional skating ability and everything else. Nobody on the Red Wing's has been better than Larkin at driving the play and entering the offensive zone. Not Zetterberg or even Datsyuk (although Datsyuk has only been back for 4 games). This kid is top notch.

I'm a huge fan of Nylander and he does have tons of potential.. But I just don't understand how Leafs fans think every prospect they get must be god's gift to earth. Larkin has already proven he is too good to start making claims that someone who hasn't played in the NHL is going to be better than him.

 

[VictorLustig]

If anything the USA has the biggest developmental claim on him. Played on travel teams all over before he went over to Sweden at 16 I'm pretty sure.

Nylander played his U16 season in Sweden so he moved there when he was 14-15. Before that he also played tournaments in Sweden. He wasn't considered a step above the rest when he was 15, he became that in Sweden.

 

[Antropovsky]

We must be missing another conversation. I'm guessing they cut it out of the 6 minute video.

It says the offer is available if Hanafin is available. Hanafin was available. Where is the conversation of Toronto calling again, or the Jackets calling Toronto to reject the trade offer before the leafs picked Marner?

They clearly cut that footage, and I can only assume so because it was bad for the jackets. Maybe they called to accept the offer but Toronto backed out.

No clearly they wanted a defenceman and their preference was hanifin and then werenski. Clearly Columbus thought very highly of hanifin, as they were considering a hefty price to pay to get him. Their consolation prize obviously was werenski, and had he been picked then it seems like they would've been very disappointed. But I'll say this, they didn't seem incredibly thrilled either, so I think the hanifin thought was weighing on them still.

 

[93LEAFS]

Nylander played his U16 season in Sweden so he moved there when he was 14-15. Before that he also played tournaments in Sweden. He wasn't considered a step above the rest when he was 15, he became that in Sweden.

Just pointing out his development path has been nomadic, Canada had no real part in his development. But he played most of his life in the USA travel team circuit and they deserve credit for that. He also led SDE HF J18 in PPG his first year there, so its not like the Swedish system polished a piece of coal into a diamond. He only spent 3 1/2 years in the Swedish system, it'd be like saying all the credit for Americans who play in the CHL from the age of 16 goes to the CHL. There were tons of factors in William's development and considering it appears he played 9 years years in the American youth system it deserves praise.

 

[Wild Hog]

How do you figure these guys will be better than Larkin? Larkin is the future captain of Detroit, it's already crystal clear because he is already that good and is that type of player. Not to many players come into the NHL at Larkin's age and have a hockey IQ of an elite seasoned vet. Let alone his exceptional skating ability and everything else. Nobody on the Red Wing's has been better than Larkin at driving the play and entering the offensive zone. Not Zetterberg or even Datsyuk (although Datsyuk has only been back for 4 games). This kid is top notch.

I'm a huge fan of Nylander and he does have tons of potential.. But I just don't understand how Leafs fans think every prospect they get must be god's gift to earth. Larkin has already proven he is too good to start making claims that someone who hasn't played in the NHL is going to be better than him.

I really don't understand this argument.

That's like saying Auston Matthews isn't going to be better than Jake Virtanen, Robby Fabbri, Daniel Sprong because they have NHL experience.

It's perfectly acceptable to say that a prospect who hasn't played an NHL game will project better than a prospect who has NHL experience.

 

[haulinbass]

[/B]


I really don't understand this argument.

That's like saying Auston Matthews isn't going to be better than Jake Virtanen, Robby Fabbri, Daniel Sprong because they have NHL experience.

It's perfectly acceptable to say that a prospect who hasn't played an NHL game will project better than a prospect who has NHL experience.

It's not because he plays in the NHL. It's because of how good he is in the NHL. I never said Nylander couldn't be better than Larkin. I just said its ridiculous to believe that Nylander and Marner are for sure going to be better than him. How can you possibly not understand that "argument."

Larkin is a player who already makes an impact every single shift. Larkin is 2nd on the team in points and tied for 1st in goals. He is also leading the entire NHL in plus/minus. Because whenever he is on the ice the puck is instantly taken to the offensive zone and stays there. He will do it all by himself. Larkin is already something that a lot of top 15 draft picks in the NHL never become. People act like every early 1st round pick becomes a superstar. The reality is that a lot of top picks don't make it and some that did make it but never became an elite player. Heck we even have a former 1st overall pick in recent time who has yet to become more than a 3rd liner after 4 seasons in the NHL. If every top 10 draft pick became a elite 1st liner each NHL team would be stacked without taking into account all of the later drafted players who also emerge into stars. If Nylander or Marner becomes as good as Larkin that is a win for Toronto. If they become better then Toronto really hit the jack pot.

It's really an easy argument to see if you are willing to see things from reality. Nobody is for sure until they come into the NHL and become it. The amount of players who have tore up every league they have played in and fail to reach their projected potential once they reach the NHL is high. Let alone come into the league and be as good as Larkin IS.

 

[sessiroth]

Yeah once Arizona picked Strome Toronto never called back. Everyone and their mother knew how high Toronto was on Marner, especially with the Hunter connection.

It makes the most sense that Toronto trading down was contingent on Marner being available or not.

It's been reported that there was a huge amount of discussions/arguments at the leaf table over picking marner or strome. This coming from hunter himself. I think columbus just straight said no just like they did in the video.

If arizona took marner, we would have taken strome if we couldn't move down IMO.

 

[cneely]

It's not because he plays in the NHL. It's because of how good he is in the NHL. I never said Nylander couldn't be better than Larkin. I just said its ridiculous to believe that Nylander and Marner are for sure going to be better than him. How can you possibly not understand that "argument."

Larkin is a player who already makes an impact every single shift. Larkin is 2nd on the team in points and tied for 1st in goals. He is also leading the entire NHL in plus/minus. Because whenever he is on the ice the puck is instantly taken to the offensive zone and stays there. He will do it all by himself. Larkin is already something that a lot of top 15 draft picks in the NHL never become. People act like every early 1st round pick becomes a superstar. The reality is that a lot of top picks don't make it and some that did make it but never became an elite player. Heck we even have a former 1st overall pick in recent time who has yet to become more than a 3rd liner after 4 seasons in the NHL. If every top 10 draft pick became a elite 1st liner each NHL team would be stacked without taking into account all of the later drafted players who also emerge into stars. If Nylander or Marner becomes as good as Larkin that is a win for Toronto. If they become better then Toronto really hit the jack pot.

It's really an easy argument to see if you are willing to see things from reality. Nobody is for sure until they come into the NHL and become it. The amount of players who have tore up every league they have played in and fail to reach their projected potential once they reach the NHL is high. Let alone come into the league and be as good as Larkin IS.

I think your logic is a little flawed just based on what Nylander has done and is doing. Can you give me examples of players who produced at Nylander's level in professional leagues at 18 and 19 years old, and didn't become very, very good offensive players? I'm not saying it's never happened, but it will be very tough to find examples because the type of production Nylander has shown over the last 2 years is not very common at all.

 

[HarrisonFord]

I think your logic is a little flawed just based on what Nylander has done and is doing. Can you give me examples of players who produced at Nylander's level in professional leagues at 18 and 19 years old, and didn't become very, very good offensive players? I'm not saying it's never happened, but it will be very tough to find examples because the type of production Nylander has shown over the last 2 years is not very common at all.

Very good post

 

[Wild Hog]

I think your logic is a little flawed just based on what Nylander has done and is doing. Can you give me examples of players who produced at Nylander's level in professional leagues at 18 and 19 years old, and didn't become very, very good offensive players? I'm not saying it's never happened, but it will be very tough to find examples because the type of production Nylander has shown over the last 2 years is not very common at all.

This.

 

[Redwingsfan]

I think your logic is a little flawed just based on what Nylander has done and is doing. Can you give me examples of players who produced at Nylander's level in professional leagues at 18 and 19 years old, and didn't become very, very good offensive players? I'm not saying it's never happened, but it will be very tough to find examples because the type of production Nylander has shown over the last 2 years is not very common at all.

I think his point is that its not guaranteed that Nylander ends up better than Larkin. Larkin has been the best player on Detroit so far and is showing no signs of slowing down. Its one thing to have an opinion and say "I think he will be better", but to say "he will be better" is a little different.

Nylander could very well be the best player in the league in 5 years for all I know, but there are no guarantees until we see what he can do in the NHL.

As for finding a comparable player. I think Nylander is a special case. Players as talented as he is don't tend to play in the SHL/AHL at 18/19. There's probably lots of players who could have been able to do the same, but they were in the NHL at that age, which is probably where Nylander really belongs right now based on everything he's done in other leagues.

 

[cneely]

I think his point is that its not guaranteed that Nylander ends up better than Larkin. Larkin has been the best player on Detroit so far and is showing no signs of slowing down. Its one thing to have an opinion and say "I think he will be better", but to say "he will be better" is a little different.

Nylander could very well be the best player in the league in 5 years for all I know, but there are no guarantees until we see what he can do in the NHL.

As for finding a comparable player. I think Nylander is a special case. Players as talented as he is don't tend to play in the SHL/AHL at 18/19. There's probably lots of players who could have been able to do the same, but they were in the NHL at that age, which is probably where Nylander really belongs right now based on everything he's done in other leagues.

Sure, Larkin appears to be a special player. Living in Winnipeg, I've been partial to Ehlers as well, and he is also coming along nicely. My point is that it's not really fair to discount what Nylander has done in professional leagues as a very young player. Might he bust? Yeah, maybe, but all evidence at this point suggests the Leafs have a gem on their hands. I find it a little disingenuous to say that lots of players rip up lower leagues and fail to perform in the NHL when not very many players have ever done what Nylander is doing.

I understand that it takes a pretty special set of circumstances to have a player of Nylander's calibre and age playing in the AHL, and I certainly am not calling him the best 20 and under player in the world. Certainly if a guy like McDavid, Eichel, or yes even Larkin, played in the AHL, they may be doing the same thing. We just can't hold it against Nylander that the Leafs have decided to bring him along slowly. I agree he belongs in the NHL, and based on what he's doing in the AHL, I think there is a good chance he could be performing at the same level as Larkin in the NHL.

I think Leafs fans (and all fans of young prospects including Larkin) have to temper their enthusiasm somewhat though due to the small sample sizes. Let's not forget what Pastrnak did in the AHL last year, outperforming Nylander (in PPG at least) in the AHL. Pastrnak looks to be a great prospect, but certainly isn't a threat to lead the NHL in scoring like one Leafs fan has suggested Nylander would be doing.

 

[BigWilly]

I think his point is that its not guaranteed that Nylander ends up better than Larkin. Larkin has been the best player on Detroit so far and is showing no signs of slowing down. Its one thing to have an opinion and say "I think he will be better", but to say "he will be better" is a little different.

Nylander could very well be the best player in the league in 5 years for all I know, but there are no guarantees until we see what he can do in the NHL.

As for finding a comparable player. I think Nylander is a special case. Players as talented as he is don't tend to play in the SHL/AHL at 18/19. There's probably lots of players who could have been able to do the same, but they were in the NHL at that age, which is probably where Nylander really belongs right now based on everything he's done in other leagues.

Good post, I agree on all points.

 

[Atomos2]

Marlies game starting in one minute. Should be a fun one.

 

[snizzbone*]

The people who guarantee Nylander or other prospects to be better than other players are out to lunch. There is never a guarantee. Larkin is obviously a very good player, Nylander is a very good player as well. Larkin could be better than Nylander 5 years from now. Nylander could be better than Eichel 5 years from now. You just don't know.

This website seems to bunch people together. Common phrase around here and pretty much the hockey world is "typical leaf fans" or "lol leaf fans". There are so many of us that generalizing the fan base like that is just insane. But I mean that's the world we live in, generalizations are a big part of society.

 

[haulinbass]

I think his point is that its not guaranteed that Nylander ends up better than Larkin. Larkin has been the best player on Detroit so far and is showing no signs of slowing down. Its one thing to have an opinion and say "I think he will be better", but to say "he will be better" is a little different.

Nylander could very well be the best player in the league in 5 years for all I know, but there are no guarantees until we see what he can do in the NHL.

As for finding a comparable player. I think Nylander is a special case. Players as talented as he is don't tend to play in the SHL/AHL at 18/19. There's probably lots of players who could have been able to do the same, but they were in the NHL at that age, which is probably where Nylander really belongs right now based on everything he's done in other leagues.

The people who guarantee Nylander or other prospects to be better than other players are out to lunch. There is never a guarantee. Larkin is obviously a very good player, Nylander is a very good player as well. Larkin could be better than Nylander 5 years from now. Nylander could be better than Eichel 5 years from now. You just don't know.

This website seems to bunch people together. Common phrase around here and pretty much the hockey world is "typical leaf fans" or "lol leaf fans". There are so many of us that generalizing the fan base like that is just insane. But I mean that's the world we live in, generalizations are a big part of society.

THESE

_____________________________


I am glad you guys like to waist everyone's time including your own to argue about things that were NEVER actually said. I love arguing about pretend stuff on my Saturday's. It is so fun to completely ignore words that were written crystal clear by someone and then make up a different point and argue about it. Anyway I'm done here.. You guys can mold by words into anything you want and argue about it all week for all I care.

 

[Atomos2]

God, watching Panik on Nylander's wing is depressing. The guy immediate destroys any offensive opportunities

You've gotta question Keefe's reasoning for taking Leivo off Nylander's line and keeping Panik there.

 

[Sonny21]

Sure, Larkin appears to be a special player. Living in Winnipeg, I've been partial to Ehlers as well, and he is also coming along nicely. My point is that it's not really fair to discount what Nylander has done in professional leagues as a very young player. Might he bust? Yeah, maybe, but all evidence at this point suggests the Leafs have a gem on their hands. I find it a little disingenuous to say that lots of players rip up lower leagues and fail to perform in the NHL when not very many players have ever done what Nylander is doing.

I understand that it takes a pretty special set of circumstances to have a player of Nylander's calibre and age playing in the AHL, and I certainly am not calling him the best 20 and under player in the world. Certainly if a guy like McDavid, Eichel, or yes even Larkin, played in the AHL, they may be doing the same thing. We just can't hold it against Nylander that the Leafs have decided to bring him along slowly. I agree he belongs in the NHL, and based on what he's doing in the AHL, I think there is a good chance he could be performing at the same level as Larkin in the NHL.

I think Leafs fans (and all fans of young prospects including Larkin) have to temper their enthusiasm somewhat though due to the small sample sizes. Let's not forget what Pastrnak did in the AHL last year, outperforming Nylander (in PPG at least) in the AHL. Pastrnak looks to be a great prospect, but certainly isn't a threat to lead the NHL in scoring like one Leafs fan has suggested Nylander would be doing.

Great post, agreed with all your points including tempering expectation due to small sample size as well.

 

[PhilTheThrillKessel]

People on this website love to anoint players as the next big thing as early as they can. Larkin has a long future in this league in my opinion, but nothing is ever a guarentee... especially after 20 friggin games. Future captain already? Just LOL. Slow your roll folks.

 

[MardyBum]

Marlies game starting in one minute. Should be a fun one.

Feel free to toss some of your offensive mojo to the Moose.

Woof.

 

[Kelly]

God, watching Panik on Nylander's wing is depressing. The guy immediate destroys any offensive opportunities

You've gotta question Keefe's reasoning for taking Leivo off Nylander's line and keeping Panik there.

Uh what?

In the games I've seen Panik has been one of the best Marlies, and probably one of the best players that Nylander could play with on the Marlies...

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

God, watching Panik on Nylander's wing is depressing. The guy immediate destroys any offensive opportunities

You've gotta question Keefe's reasoning for taking Leivo off Nylander's line and keeping Panik there.

Trying to get Panik going?

It's not like we need the Marlies to win. It is mostly for development so anything to get players into a groove.

 

[Atomos2]

Nylander goal!