C/W Brad Lambert (2022, 30th, WPG) Part 3

[Svedu]

Ahhh, so you've moved over to the old, "Scheifele, Wheeler, and Maurice were the problem with Laine" angle now?

And it's not that the Jets just are big meanies that go out of their way to ruin Finnish talent?

"Let's hope the Jets doesn't ruin a Finnish talent once again... Laine, Heinola, Vesalainen, Kupari, Nikkanen... No matter the level of these prospects, Finnish prospects have been mishandled pretty darn good in the Jets system."

I've never said the Jets handle everything in a great way. They make a ton of mistakes like every other franchise. But what they don't do, because it would be absolutely stupid and make no sense to do, is purposely ruin any prospects development as it's in their own best interests for their prospects to be the best players they can be.

Nothing to say about all the Europeans taken in the 1st 2 rounds since Ehlers and their development?

Nothing to say about Niederreiter or Namestnikov after you strangely decided (incorrectly) that the Jets have mishandled them as well?

Edit: for Lambert I would agree with Buffdog. He's had a good year in the AHL playing centre. He's at a interesting point where he's playing well, and has a lot of NHL qualities (speed being tops). He could likely play in the NHL, but it's about role and opportunity, and about development. There's an outside chance he could beat out Namestnikov for the 2C role. Besides that though he's in the same situation as a lot of talented skill players around the league. If there isn't a spot in the top 6, and the team usually runs a checking line for the 3rd line, do you stick him on the 4th (and the Jets would need to make trades to make that happen), or do you give him another year at centre in the AHL to keep developing? He's definitly one of the guys on the edge at the moment.

Spacek was ok on the Moose for sure. He clearly wasn't making the 2017-2018 that went to the western conferance finals. He just wasn't better than other players the Jets already had. There are tons of Spaceks in every organization. Why didn't he get picked up by a different NHL team in 2020?

My statement was that not a single European has been successful with Ehlers as the exception. Besides Laines few seasons.

Funny thing is, what the actual h*ll have you answered? Not a thing. You haven't contributed with anything proving me wrong. And yeah, I stand behind my opinon that the Jets mishandled Heinola and probably even Laine. I mean those things occur and it isn't the end of the world.
I've never been as focused on draft number as I have been watching the actual prospects. Heinola and Laine were special. Lundell as well.
I could mention another European prospect I never believed in either, Zadina. I always thought Necas was the main Czech prospect and that he stood out with his speed, agility and skill. Puistola is another one like Zadina. He got a few lucky bounces in a WJC that boosted their draft value too much. Even if they had some skill there weren't many Finnish fans believing that Puistola would be the next big guy.
Actually... Regarding Necas and this topic, a player that Lambert in some ways does remind of!? Is Necas. The same repertoar. Question is if the ceiling is there and if the Jets can handle him in the best way further down the road.

Regering Namestnikov and Nino? You guys never drafted them. I only mentioned them because they are European. And it's not like Nino never had better showings and stats elsewhere? I mean honestly dude, you haven't shown me a single valid argument in this whole time? You are just spamming nonsense like the Jets would be your employer or something. Jesus lord.
You are more biased than any swedish, finnish or Russian hockeyfan at this point. "The Jets only make good decisions and that's that", bro science...

 

[Buffdog]

Finally a good and respectable answer. Yeah it's pretty ironic and you know what? I fully agree. Regarding Lambert he was totally misplaced in Finnish hockey and especially the kind of hockey that has been going on these last years.
But again, he's like the only one worth mentioning for the Jets? And on top of that? He hasn't made it yet. Also I would state that his ceiling considering his tools should be nothing less than a top6 no matter if he's a winger or a center. Anything under top 9 as a center would be a failure for the Jets development system and especially when they seem to have an average or week roster right now.

I mean was it you or mr. Huffpuffer who said that he has a higher ceiling than Perfetti? And then the same person stated that Perfettis ceiling is higher than Lundells. So what is Lamberts and Perfettis ceiling then? Just so I can memorize it for the future.
Let's not forget that Lundell is young and already a specialist in some way, a cup winner and more than a capable producer considering his ice time. Was it huff puffer who thought a young guys ceiling is already cemented as third center? In a roster that just won the Stanley cup as well? Like honestly, this is so funny that you can't make this sh*t up. Very hasty and bold statements.

I said that Perfetti has a higher ceiling than Lundell, at least offensively. I see him as a winger who will pit up 60+ points a year. It's hard to compare the value of a higher scoring winger vs a defensive 3C which is how I see Lundell

For Lambert, most Jets fans would be thrilled if he turns into Bryan Little 2.0 (you know, the guy who Laine threw under the bus unceremoniously to the Finnish press - but wait, his problems in Winnipeg were all schief's and wheeler's fault). He may not end up as defensively responsible as Little, but he's more dynamic offensively

We'll know more about Lambert's ceiling and what parts of his game will translate to the NHL after a season or two

 

[Svedu]

Boy do in have bad news for you about the relationship between WJC performance and NHL performance.

Heinola was tracking to make the team last season. Then he broke his ankle. Then he didn't play well when he returned. The Jets got rid of two starting D-men this offseason. Ample space for him to make the team.

Boy do I have bad news for you and your quick assumptions. There is a difference between being good and being special.

Only a few Finnish players were special at the WJC's, at least for me. And one of those very few were? Saros, Teräväinen, Heinola, Laine and a tier under Lundell, Niemelä, Aho and a lot of those players from 2016. Point is, a lot of them were worthy of praise and have shown it afterwards. Barkov was too developed and never participated in his prime youth years because of the obvious talent.
Lehkonen was good too but not special.

I can make other comparisons as well. Laf was never special in any way, not for me. But he's still a good NHLer.
Bedard, Jack Hughes, Kuznetsov on the other hand have really stood out at that level. Tarasenko was also good but Kuznetsov was truly something else.
So what am I trying to say here? You assume that I assume that every good player from the WJC's could or would become good and my answer to that is that your assumption is nothing but incorrect. Because special is special and good is good and there is different levels of being good as well.
UPL is the second best I've seen for Finland after Saros at the WJC's and guess what? He's probably one of our two best goalies out there now. I wanted him in the Flyers before Harts mess and knew how much of a shitty defensive system the Sabres had before. And guess what? You could state that I had a decent feeling for who was special, very good and just good after these two decades of following the WJC's

And that's why I'm mad about Heinola and only him. Because he's special, more than Drysdale for an example. Does that make him a safe success? Doesn't have to, but he's worth the opportunities and to risk some defense for. Just like with, hey take EK65. The franchise has some responsibility in his development as well.
And I would seriously love seeing Philly with the new rebuild with Michkov taking a chance on Heinola and trade for him. Throw Drysdale and give Philly some picks. Before it's too late like it is with UPL.

 

[Romang67]

Boy do I have bad news for you and your quick assumptions. There is a difference between being good and being special.

Only a few Finnish players were special at the WJC's, at least for me. And one of those very few were? Saros, Teräväinen, Heinola, Laine and a tier under Lundell, Niemelä, Aho and a lot of those player from 2016. Point is, a lot of them were worthy of praise and have shown it afterwards. Barkov was too developed and never participated in his prime youth years because of the obvious talent.
Lehkonen was good too but not special.

I can make other comparisons as well. Laf was never special in any way, not for me. Bedard, Jack Hughes, Kuznetsov have really stood out on that level. Tarasenko was also good but Kuznetsov was truly something else.
So what am I trying to say here? You assume that I assume that every good player from the WJC's could or would become good and my answer to that is that your assumption is nothing but incorrect. Because special is special and good is good and there is different levels of being good as well.
UPL is the second best I've seen for Finland after Saros at the WHC's and guess what? He's probably one of our two best goalies out there now. I wanted him in the Flyers and knew hos much of a shitty defensive system the Sabres had before. And guess what? You could state that I had a decent feeling for who was special, very good and just good after these two decades of following the WJC's

Amazingly, all my reported predictions about what player will be special from 5+ years ago are proving true as well.

I also have a barn out back where every shot I've taken on it has turned out to be a bullseye. 25 painted targets, every single one has a hole through the middle.

 

[Svedu]

Amazingly, all my reported predictions about what player will be special from 5+ years ago are proving true as well.

I also have a barn out back where every shot I've taken on it has turned out to be a bullseye. 25 painted targets, every single one has a hole through the middle.

Classic. You offer sarcasm when the only thing you could show up before that was quick assumptions. Lol. And just so you know, Whiskyerthedevils likes all sarcastic answers directed to me.

Amazingly, all my reported predictions about what player will be special from 5+ years ago are proving true as well.

I also have a barn out back where every shot I've taken on it has turned out to be a bullseye. 25 painted targets, every single one has a hole through the middle.

Also check your reading. I said that Laf wasn't anything special but good. The same goes for Lehkonen even if he was better than Laf at that stage but a bit weak and small. And guess what? They had and are having good NHL careers. At least I can be a bit humble about some things. But some of you fanatic Jets fans are more sect like than any homer fan of any country in here. A bit scared of how black and white your perspective on things is.

You guys remind me a bit of zi**ists.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Classic. You offer sarcasm when the only thing you could show up before that was quick assumptions. Lol. And just so you know, Whiskyerthedevils likes all sarcastic answers directed to me.

I wasn't going to, but since you DM'd me accusing me of purposely liking posts that disagree with you, I'm gonna be sure to do just that.

 

[Weezeric]

Boy do I have bad news for you and your quick assumptions. There is a difference between being good and being special.

Only a few Finnish players were special at the WJC's, at least for me. And one of those very few were? Saros, Teräväinen, Heinola, Laine and a tier under Lundell, Niemelä, Aho and a lot of those players from 2016. Point is, a lot of them were worthy of praise and have shown it afterwards. Barkov was too developed and never participated in his prime youth years because of the obvious talent.
Lehkonen was good too but not special.

I can make other comparisons as well. Laf was never special in any way, not for me. But he's still a good NHLer.
Bedard, Jack Hughes, Kuznetsov on the other hand have really stood out at that level. Tarasenko was also good but Kuznetsov was truly something else.
So what am I trying to say here? You assume that I assume that every good player from the WJC's could or would become good and my answer to that is that your assumption is nothing but incorrect. Because special is special and good is good and there is different levels of being good as well.
UPL is the second best I've seen for Finland after Saros at the WJC's and guess what? He's probably one of our two best goalies out there now. I wanted him in the Flyers before Harts mess and knew how much of a shitty defensive system the Sabres had before. And guess what? You could state that I had a decent feeling for who was special, very good and just good after these two decades of following the WJC's

And that's why I'm mad about Heinola and only him. Because he's special, more than Drysdale for an example. Does that make him a safe success? Doesn't have to, but he's worth the opportunities and to risk some defense for. Just like with, hey take EK65. The franchise has some responsibility in his development as well.
And I would seriously love seeing Philly with the new rebuild with Michkov taking a chance on Heinola and trade for him. Throw Drysdale and give Philly some picks. Before it's too late like it is with UPL.

I think the Jets are very high on Heinola. He had an unfortunate injury during the last preseason game last year. He would’ve made the team. He was the big story of training camp.

He was also impacted by the pandemic. There were some weird rules during that time and it hurt his opportunity.

Seems like he has a good attitude about the whole thing. Hopefully he has a big season, the Jets could use more offence from the back end.

For Lambert, I think his ceiling is similar to Matt Barzal. He might end up as more of a 2C which would fill a big need for the Jets.

 

[Svedu]

I wasn't going to, but since you DM'd me accusing me of purposely liking posts that disagree with you, I'm gonna be sure to do just that.

Lol, you are doing exactly that what I asked you. If you want to call it accusing when you can't or won't bother to give a decent answer? Well, then you only prove my point. Why lie or pretend anything else? You answering without showing your honest standpoint says it all. That's why I called you out in the first place.

Let's share it and be totally honest and transparent while we are at it? I wrote "Do you do anything besides liking people that disagree with me or post things without considering history and stats?"

First of all, the question was more than justified. And with the aftermath you just showed me what, that I was right? And what more, a hurt ego? Good for you.

 

[Jussi]

I can't? How did he do in Finland's pro league compared to the AHL?

Completely irrelevant. The point was if he's developed enough to be an NHL regular. I'm not commenting on his development in Finland (besides it was well documented his dad interfered too much). I'm not making any comparisons between North America and Europe, just his overall development.

 

[gojetsgo]

this thread is confusing... before being drafted he was called a bust, now he's had a couple of good development years after being in the jets systems there are claims that the jets are going to ruin him?

 

[Svedu]

this thread is confusing... before being drafted he was called a bust, now he's had a couple of good development years after being in the jets systems there are claims that the jets are going to ruin him?

Well, no. Not claims. But it's justified to question Jets handling of Heinola and Laine.

Also, it's justified to say that Lambert hasn't shown anything in the NHL yet. Isn't that precise enough for you? Or is that incorrect in any way? Let's hope he makes it of course.

Last but not least, let's not pretend that Jets have been the best of franchises in either selecting and especially further developing their talents these last years.
I can only think of a couple few being worse, earlier Oilers and Sabres. Philly for a long time. Then I would almost claim that Jets are up there as the top 10-15 worst franchises this last decade, yes. Especially with their European selections. But that's my subjective opinion and nothing more.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Lol, you are doing exactly that what I asked you. If you want to call it accusing when you can't or won't bother to give a decent answer? Well, then you only prove my point. Why lie or pretend anything else? You answering without showing your honest standpoint says it all. That's why I called you out in the first place.

Let's share it and be totally honest and transparent while we are at it? I wrote "Do you do anything besides liking people that disagree with me or post things without considering history and stats?"

First of all, the question was more than justified. And with the aftermath you just showed me what, that I was right? And what more, a hurt ego? Good for you.

Obviously I am completely out to get you, with my vicious pattern of liking posts that point out your ridiculous takes, just like the Jets are out to ruin Finnish prospects.

Or maybe I just don't agree with your delusional victim complex.

 

[gojetsgo]

Well, no. Not claims. But it's justified to question Jets handling of Heinola and Laine.

Also, it's justified to say that Lambert hasn't shown anything in the NHL yet. Isn't that precise enough for you? Or is that incorrect an any way? Let's hope he makes it of course.

Last but not least, let's not pretend that Jets have been the best of franchises in either selecting and especially further developing their talents these last years.
I can only think of a couple few being worse, earlier Oilers and Sabres. Philly for a long time. Then I would almost claim that Jets are up there as the top 10-15 worst franchises this last decade, yes. Especially with their European selections. But that's my subjective opinion and nothing more.

it's kind of weird that winnipeg, the franchise on everyone's no trade list and has the hardest time attracting free agents was able to build a consistent playoff team while also being one of the worst franchises as developing talent?

I actually don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about lol

 

[ffh]

2c in the nhl for lambert is a pipe dream. Yager to me looks way more natural to be the 2c for the jets inThe future.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

2c in the nhl for lambert is a pipe dream. Yager to me looks way more natural to be the 2c for the jets inThe future.

Lambert is a much better fit as a 2C, and is the superior prospect.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

it's kind of weird that winnipeg, the franchise on everyone's no trade list and has the hardest time attracting free agents was able to build a consistent playoff team while also being one of the worst franchises as developing talent?

I actually don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about lol

If only they had any success with developing home grown talent. They only had 7 consecutive 1st round picks turn into contributing NHL players in the span of 6 years (Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, Ehlers, Connor, Roslovic, and Laine), with some great depth picks like Helle, Lowry, Copp, and Appleton.

 

[Svedu]

Obviously I am completely out to get you, with my vicious pattern of liking posts that point out your ridiculous takes, just like the Jets are out to ruin Finnish prospects.

Or maybe I just don't agree with your delusional victim complex.

Out to ruin? Have I ever written that? I've stated that they are having a hard time with both drafting and developing their European prospects and have struggling with exactly that this last decade. Correct or not? Also, if you are so clever? Write something relevant and prove me wrong. Give me stats and facts. Because what else are you trying to achieve? Convincing me that you have a hurt ego?

Victim complex, can you further develop that?
So okay, you don't think a lot of say... Russian or Belarusian or why not Hungarian prospects could use a bit more time or help to acclimatize for the NHL. Besides those monster prospects like Kuznetsov, Michkov and others?
Or hey, do you even believe that different individuals need different treatment or circumstances to become successful?
My personal point of view is that hockey can be complex and it can be easy. You need to develop individuals but at the same time of course try to achieve a strong unit. The thing is, besides or actually after Byfuglien and Trouba and a couple of others... The Jets never had anything worth mentioning imho. Not in the short or the long run. Then it's up for staff to take decisions. And yeah, I do think they have taken some pretty dumb decisions. Objectively without any Finnish bias.
If you have a franchise you need to treat your roster in a different way than in an actual national tournament. Jalonen and his philosophy is a good example of this? Is he just as certain as a franchise coach as a national coach? No, I don't think so.

I mean offensive D's in general are very special. You can try to mold them and very often it will go down south. Or you just let them grow, gain confidence and build themselves up and actually let them fail and still give them the opportunity to learn from their mistakes with the big guys.
It's not like Heiskanen was the best when he came? In fact, I would state that Quinn Hughes, Dahlin and a couple of other huge talents that have been offensive minded have from time to time sucked, yeah actually sucked when it comes to the defensive aspect of the game. Ek65 is another one that comes to mind.
But what a franchise expects and how they tackle it are just as much on them as the actual prospect. I mean that's why you scout, why you take risks etc. That's why you have a couple of rounds and so on. Funny thing is... It's always me, another finn, swede or Czech or whatever actually it doesn't matter, who needs to explain themselves so that your narrow-minded sorry a**es can understand the bigger and more complex picture. Why is that? What in the actual hell have you contributed with? Besides your sarcasm.

Last but not least, are you so bold that you want to go ahead and state that the Jets have been great with European prospects this last decade? Go ahead, show me, explain why.
Last but not least, do you believe that the outcome of Lamberts eventual NHL career is not only up to him? And that the staff and franchise will play a role in his further development? And... If you think they play a part? Do you think it's the worlds biggest coincidence that only Ehlers have succeeded at the Jets these last years?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Out to ruin? Have I ever written that? I've stated that they are having a hard time with both drafting and developing their European prospects and have struggling with exactly this last decade. Correct or not? Also, if you are so clever? Write something relevant and prove me wrong. Give me stats and facts. Because what else are you trying to achieve? Convincing me that you have a hurt ego?

They've drafted 4 European players in the first round since 2014. 2 of them became impact players with the Jets, and 2 others are primed to crack the Jets this season.

 

[Romang67]

Completely irrelevant. The point was if he's developed enough to be an NHL regular. I'm not commenting on his development in Finland (besides it was well documented his dad interfered too much). I'm not making any comparisons between North America and Europe, just his overall development.

What? How is his progression from when he was a non-Jets affiliated prospect in Finland to now, after two years as a Jets affiliated prospect, irrelevant to the Jets' organization's ability to develop Finnish prospects? What an odd thing to say.

Classic. You offer sarcasm when the only thing you could show up before that was quick assumptions. Lol. And just so you know, Whiskyerthedevils likes all sarcastic answers directed to me.


Also check your reading. I said that Laf wasn't anything special but good. The same goes for Lehkonen even if he was better than Laf at that stage but a bit weak and small. And guess what? They had and are having good NHL careers. At least I can be a bit humble about some things. But some of you fanatic Jets fans are more sect like than any homer fan of any country in here. A bit scared of how black and white your perspective on things is.

You guys remind me a bit of zi**ists.

What in the world are you on about now?

 

[Jussi]

What? How is his progression from when he was a non-Jets affiliated prospect in Finland to now, after two years as a Jets affiliated prospect, irrelevant to the Jets' organization's ability to develop Finnish prospects? What an odd thing to say.

What in the world are you on about now?

I'm not part of that discussion, just talking about Lambert.

 

[Romang67]

I'm not part of that discussion, just talking about Lambert.

So what you're arguing is that Lambert isn't one of the 5 players from the 2022 NHL draft who arguably have made it as NHL regulars yet?

Alright. That's correct.

 

[Svedu]

They've drafted 4 European players in the first round since 2014. 2 of them became impact players with the Jets, and 2 others are primed to crack the Jets this season.

Name the other impact player besides Ehlers.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Name the other impact player besides Ehlers.

Laine

 

[Svedu]

So what you're arguing is that Lambert isn't one of the 5 players from the 2022 NHL draft who arguably have made it as NHL regulars yet?

Alright. That's correct.

What is it with you speculating on what he thinks or believes. That's so freaking common for fanatic fans overall. Like be humble and ask him if you are seriously curious. Like how old are you? Do you always assume things?

Laine

Oh... Yeah... They handled him very well. Now I remember? And it wasn't like his early showings were the best and that his actual talent level was so crystal clear? Got it, thank you.

They neither developed Laine nor did they handle him well or backed him up against a much more mediocre older player like Wheeler. They took that decision. See what I did there. You can twist and turn your statements pretty easily. Doesn't make you any more clever or right.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Oh... Yeah... They handled him very well. Now I remember? And it wasn't like his early showings were the best and that his actual talent level was so crystal clear? Got it, thank you.

They neither developed Laine nor did they handle him well or backed him up against a much more mediocre older player like Wheeler. They took that decision. See what I did there. You can twist and turn your statements pretty easily. Doesn't make you any more clever or right.

They were 5th in the NHL in points from Laine's 2nd thru 4th year, so it seems like they were doing okay not building their lines around how many points they could get Laine.