C/W Brad Lambert (2022, 30th, WPG) Part 3

Buffdog

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Feb 13, 2019
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What is it with you speculating on what he thinks or believes. That's so freaking common for fanatic fans overall. Like be humble and ask him if you are seriously curious. Like how old are you? Do you always assume things?


Oh... Yeah... They handled him very well. Now I remember? And it wasn't like his early showings were the best and that his actual talent level was so crystal clear? Got it, thank you.

They neither developed Laine nor did they handle him well or backed him up against a much more mediocre older player like Wheeler. They took that decision. See what I did there. You can twist and turn your statements pretty easily. Doesn't make you any more clever or right.
Laine was the problem, not the Jets (as proven by him running himself out of Colimbus)

Demanding 1st line usage without buying into the defensive side of the game and showing no interest in offseason S+C are character red flags

Maybe he'll turn things around in MTL
 
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Svedu

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Laine was the problem, not the Jets (as proven by him running himself out of Colimbus)

Demanding 1st line usage without buying into the defensive side of the game and showing no interest in offseason S+C are character red flags

Maybe he'll turn things around in MTL
Yeah of course it is... Just like Dubois huh? And others not wanting to play for Columbus? Just like Jiricek. Lol, you have answers to everything and when someone gives you a different and actually truthful argument you become silent or change the topics. Or assume something new or just become sarcastic.

What is Jets nowadays? Mansons own sect? You can't question anything? Imagine if you guys would've rooted for the Flyers or say Sabres these last years. God damn, the truth would be so hurtful...
 
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Romang67

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What is it with you speculating on what he thinks or believes. That's so freaking common for fanatic fans overall. Like be humble and ask him if you are seriously curious. Like how old are you? Do you always assume things?
See my previous question.

Yeah of course it is... Just like Dubois huh? And others not wanting to play for Columbus? Just like Jiricek. Lol, you have answers to everything and when someone gives you a different and actually truthful argument you become silent or change the topics. Or assume something new or just become sarcastic.

What is Jets nowadays? Manson own sect? You can't question anything? Imagine if you guys would've rooted for the Flyers or say Sabres these last years. God damn, the truth would be so hurtful...
You seem to be working yourself up over this. Shouldn't you be welcoming people's questioning your assertions about the Jets' handling on European prospects, instead of getting angry when people aren't blindly taking it at face value?
 

Buffdog

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Feb 13, 2019
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Yeah of course it is... Just like Dubois huh? And others not wanting to play for Columbus? Just like Jiricek. Lol, you have answers to everything and when someone gives you a different and actually truthful argument you become silent or change the topics. Or assume something new or just become sarcastic.

What is Jets nowadays? Mansons own sect? You can't question anything? Imagine if you guys would've rooted for the Flyers or say Sabres these last years. God damn, the truth would be so hurtful...
Um, are you saying that Dubois WASN'T the problem? The fact that he's on his third team in three years isn't also a red flag?

I've yet to see you give a truthful argument. I've seen lots of stawmen and goalposts moving, but that's about it

I question plenty of things about the Jets. But how they handled Laine isn't one of them. I genuinely liked him and wish that he could have gotten his head out of his ass. He could have been special like Mike Bossy or Brett Hull. A legit superstar sniper
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
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Um, are you saying that Dubois WASN'T the problem? The fact that he's on his third team in three years isn't also a red flag?

I've yet to see you give a truthful argument. I've seen lots of stawmen and goalposts moving, but that's about it

I question plenty of things about the Jets. But how they handled Laine isn't one of them. I genuinely liked him and wish that he could have gotten his head out of his ass. He could have been special like Mike Bossy or Brett Hull. A legit superstar sniper
I was so focused on the weird second paragraph that I missed the first one.:laugh:

Yes, Dubois is obviously the problem wherever he goes. The Kings got rid of him after a single season, after trading a haul for him and signing him to a massive contract, because he was such an unmitigated disaster.
 

Svedu

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Um, are you saying that Dubois WASN'T the problem? The fact that he's on his third team in three years isn't also a red flag?

I've yet to see you give a truthful argument. I've seen lots of stawmen and goalposts moving, but that's about it

I question plenty of things about the Jets. But how they handled Laine isn't one of them. I genuinely liked him and wish that he could have gotten his head out of his ass. He could have been special like Mike Bossy or Brett Hull. A legit superstar sniper
Name a single other European prospect besides Ehlers who succeeded?

Yeah, you guys totally just missed Jiricek and Alexander Nylander and those other questions regarding the Jets. You seem to be like fanatics more than anything by now.
I haven't heard about many players loving Ohio to be honest.
 
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Buffdog

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Name a single other European prospect besides Ehlers who succeeded?
What does a prospect being European or not have to do with anything?

Any time you get into the back half of the 1st round, things aren't guaranteed. For example, someone going 32nd overall has a 50/50 chance of playing 80 games total in the NHL

Sure, Vesalainan didn't work out. But neither did Roslovic, who was drafted by the Jets around the same spot. Heinola and Stanley same thing.

Do yourself a favor and hit HockeyDB and go through the draft year by year to see how many guys just don't make it.
 

ffh

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Jul 16, 2016
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Lambert is a much better fit as a 2C, and is the superior prospect.
I know you're a diehard but lambert doesn't look like an nhl center to me at all. I liked yager much more at the young guns tournament as far an overall centers game. And I'm not convinced lambert is a better prospect either at the same age
 
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Heldig

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Well, no. Not claims. But it's justified to question Jets handling of Heinola and Laine.

Also, it's justified to say that Lambert hasn't shown anything in the NHL yet. Isn't that precise enough for you? Or is that incorrect in any way? Let's hope he makes it of course.

Last but not least, let's not pretend that Jets have been the best of franchises in either selecting and especially further developing their talents these last years.
I can only think of a couple few being worse, earlier Oilers and Sabres. Philly for a long time. Then I would almost claim that Jets are up there as the top 10-15 worst franchises this last decade, yes. Especially with their European selections. But that's my subjective opinion and nothing more.
Yes, the Jets have been on a downward slide regarding their drafting and developing the last few years but 10? 8,9 and 10 years ago the Jets were in their hay day drafting Ehlers, Connor and Laine in successive years.

There were some inside issues how Laine was dealt with for sure (rumours of issues with Wheeler for example) but let's not pretend Laine was not part of the problem.

I dont get your issues with Heinola. He has progressed very well and had made the team last year but broke his ankle. Recovery was slow and the team had replacements in place during a great season. They made room for him to win a spot this season.
 

Svedu

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Yes, the Jets have been on a downward slide regarding their drafting and developing the last few years but 10? 8,9 and 10 years ago the Jets were in their hay day drafting Ehlers, Connor and Laine in successive years.

There were some inside issues how Laine was dealt with for sure (rumours of issues with Wheeler for example) but let's not pretend Laine was not part of the problem.

I dont get your issues with Heinola. He has progressed very well and had made the team last year but broke his ankle. Recovery was slow and the team had replacements in place during a great season. They made room for him to win a spot this season.
Good post. Thanks.

Yeah, you're probably right regarding the most things.
And yes, Heinola has been very unlucky with injuries but that's the only thing I won't fully agree with you on. I don't think the Jets have handled him in the best way. I mean there was some rumors that he wished for a trade? And he seems to be a pretty chill dude and patient if you ask me.
I mean lucky or not, he did produce 5 points in 8 games for the Jets 19/20. Then he struggled a bit yes, but he did produce and had a good overall game for Lukko the season after and his production considering the type of play you see in Liiga is quite good for a D.
So no, I don't think Jets have ever shown him and gave him the confidence that he's the guy and that they will or actually gave him a honest chance that he fully deserved considering his talent. No matter the circumstances back then. Because the Jets chose him and not the other way around. And he was never at the (lower) same level as other Finnish prospects at D like Honkas, Heimosalmi etc. He was the guy followed by Niemelä.

And also... Let's compare Laine and Heinola to a great prospect like Jiricek for the BJ. He has already shown he's unhappy and wanted a trade if I stand correct? Personally I think he's a great offensive minded D and that he shouldn't be molded to become something else. This was always his strengths. I actually love his strengths and he's not Finnish. My point? He hasn't shown anything at the NHL level yet and he demands the franchise to give him better and more opportunities. The comparison then? Laine did produce and did it in a historically good manner in his first year. Attitude, cocky, whatever, whatever... He showed up.
I mean has any other prospect form Europe in a long time produced like Laine in his first year? Or had that insane PP- scoring ability? I will always stand behind him regarding the Wheeler dilemma. Not because he's Finnish like a lot of sect like fans seem to believe. Rather because of the reason he actually was it, the guy and elite star a franchise should treat somewhat extra, give him some more attention and so on if he needs and wants it. Wheeler was always a nobody in comparison. Also, imagine being so much older and a captain and behave in a bad way against your biggest upcoming star? I mean if anything he's the smallest person in the room of them all. And it's not like Wheeler earned his way to behave like that after his career and the fact he struggled for a long time. I mean if Ovechkin did the same thing, fine another story because of his status and achievements. And I do believe Laine would've reacted different and perhaps got inspired, but Wheeler? 12 years older but a mindset like a kid. If anything, he was even more unprofessional than Laine considering his age, merits and captaincy. But I don't remember he got the same shitstorm as Laine? Telling?
I mean imagine if Bedard or say Michkov starts to complain about something in their franchises? I promise you that the leaders if they are competent will have their minds as their biggest interest and act accordingly. And if not? I'm pretty sure fans and others will start complaining.
Kane for the Blackhawks back in the day is another example. Very special and controversial in some ways but he was a star and produced.

Last but not least, it's not like Jets are one of the biggest franchises with a winning history? And it's not like Manitoba, just like Ohio, are one the most famous or attractive places for the majority of people who come from elsewhere.
But the thing I know Laine enjoyed with the Jets and will enjoy with the Canadiens? Passionated fans. I believe he is a character who wants things to matter and be dead serious. I'm sure he thrives with and under pressure. And let's not pretend that anything matters in Ohio.
Oh, and I remember Laine has said how he learned to shoot and that his dad was big part of that. So no wonder that hockey became difficult and if he had issues and got depressed, He's a human and his biggest strength in hockey was something he associated with his dad. ()

This thread is about Lambert so I'm going to bake him in some kind of a way and that is that so far? He's also shown that he's sensitive with his surroundings. Perhaps not as big of a personality and attitude as Laine but it's not only a good thing. How? I don't think Laine doubts himself as much as Lambert does at the same age. I can be wrong but that's the impression I've got so far. And therefor I won't only "Blame" the Jets if he doesn't pan out. Heinola is a different story for me because he has and always had his strengths. I mean if you wanted to draft a big defensive minded guy then do so. Clubs do have an option to freely pick amongst prospects. And that's why I think they've made him a disfavor so far.
 
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Svedu

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What does a prospect being European or not have to do with anything?

Any time you get into the back half of the 1st round, things aren't guaranteed. For example, someone going 32nd overall has a 50/50 chance of playing 80 games total in the NHL

Sure, Vesalainan didn't work out. But neither did Roslovic, who was drafted by the Jets around the same spot. Heinola and Stanley same thing.

Do yourself a favor and hit HockeyDB and go through the draft year by year to see how many guys just don't make it.
Okay, interesting... So you could argue that the Jets do actually suck in both selections and developing their first round prospects lately? No matter origin. Well, that's a perspective too.
 

Buffdog

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Feb 13, 2019
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Okay, interesting... So you could argue that the Jets do actually suck in both selections and developing their first round prospects lately? No matter origin. Well, that's a perspective too.
No, like I said... guys taken at the back end of the 1st round have a 50/50 chance of playing 80 NHL games total in their career - by any team
 

cneely

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Jan 6, 2005
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The Jets suck at developing high European picks? Hmmm. Learn something every day.

Let's look at the Euros who went in the first round in Laine's draft year.

Laine, 2nd overall. 204 goals, 388 points in 480 games
Puljujarvi, 3rd overall. 54 goals, 118 points in 356 games
Juolevi, 5th overall. 51 NHL games
I guess Edmonton and Vancouver suck at developing Euro prospects as well.


Let's look at the Euro luminaries taken in the first round in 2015, the year before. It includes such household names as Gurianov, Zboril, Evgeny Schechnikov, Juulsen and Gabriel Carlsson.

Jeez. Maybe even first round picks can be a crap shoot for most teams.
 

Heldig

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True. Because if Heinola and Lambert don't pan out the Jets look pretty crucified :thumbu:
That I can agree with you 100% (though I would not use the word crucified).

If both fail to meet expectations the Jets are in a bad way.
 
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Svedu

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What? How is his progression from when he was a non-Jets affiliated prospect in Finland to now, after two years as a Jets affiliated prospect, irrelevant to the Jets' organization's ability to develop Finnish prospects? What an odd thing to say.

What in the world are you on about now?
You are a funny person. You insist on assume others perspective and thoughts on things without asking them first. Why is that? Then you offer sarcasm. Does that give you anything besides boost your own little ego? Are you even after anything constructive or do you even want to hear anyone that disagrees with you?

The Jets suck at developing high European picks? Hmmm. Learn something every day.

Let's look at the Euros who went in the first round in Laine's draft year.

Laine, 2nd overall. 204 goals, 388 points in 480 games
Puljujarvi, 3rd overall. 54 goals, 118 points in 356 games
Juolevi, 5th overall. 51 NHL games
I guess Edmonton and Vancouver suck at developing Euro prospects as well.


Let's look at the Euro luminaries taken in the first round in 2015, the year before. It includes such household names as Gurianov, Zboril, Evgeny Schechnikov, Juulsen and Gabriel Carlsson.

Jeez. Maybe even first round picks can be a crap shoot for most teams.
Why are the Jets taking cred for developing Laine? Hilarious. He was up there with the great Auston Matthews back in the day. Why? Because he was a nobody back then? Just lol.

The Jets suck at developing high European picks? Hmmm. Learn something every day.

Let's look at the Euros who went in the first round in Laine's draft year.

Laine, 2nd overall. 204 goals, 388 points in 480 games
Puljujarvi, 3rd overall. 54 goals, 118 points in 356 games
Juolevi, 5th overall. 51 NHL games
I guess Edmonton and Vancouver suck at developing Euro prospects as well.


Let's look at the Euro luminaries taken in the first round in 2015, the year before. It includes such household names as Gurianov, Zboril, Evgeny Schechnikov, Juulsen and Gabriel Carlsson.

Jeez. Maybe even first round picks can be a crap shoot for most teams.
Why are the Jets taking cred for developing Laine? Hilarious. He was up there with the great Auston Matthews back in the day. Why? Because he was a nobody back then? Just lol.
 

Romang67

BitterSwede
Jan 2, 2011
31,088
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You are a funny person. You insist on assume others perspective and thoughts on things without asking them first. Why is that? Then you offer sarcasm. Does that give you anything besides boost your own little ego? Are you even after anything constructive or do you even want to hear anyone that disagrees with you?


Why are the Jets taking cred for developing Laine? Hilarious. He was up there with the great Auston Matthews back in the day. Why? Because he was a nobody back then? Just lol.


Why are the Jets taking cred for developing Laine? Hilarious. He was up there with the great Auston Matthews back in the day. Why? Because he was a nobody back then? Just lol.
Mind pointing me to the exact part in your inane rambling about fanaticism, sects, and zionists you thought you were making a constructive point?
 

Leafshater67

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Nov 2, 2019
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Laine is a good player who was pushed out by Wheeler. Obviously they realized wheeler was a problem and they dealt with him.

Laine will prove a lot of people wrong in Montreal. Lambert will likely do the same in Winnipeg. Dubois will not.
 
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Huffer

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Laine is a good player who was pushed out by Wheeler. Obviously they realized wheeler was a problem and they dealt with him.

Laine will prove a lot of people wrong in Montreal. Lambert will likely do the same in Winnipeg. Dubois will not.
Wheeler was a very good player for the Jets for 12 years. They "dealt" with him when he was 37 with 1 year left on his deal because he was at the end of his career at 37 and buying him out and using the cap space was a better move.
 
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cneely

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You are a funny person. You insist on assume others perspective and thoughts on things without asking them first. Why is that? Then you offer sarcasm. Does that give you anything besides boost your own little ego? Are you even after anything constructive or do you even want to hear anyone that disagrees with you?


Why are the Jets taking cred for developing Laine? Hilarious. He was up there with the great Auston Matthews back in the day. Why? Because he was a nobody back then? Just lol.


Why are the Jets taking cred for developing Laine? Hilarious. He was up there with the great Auston Matthews back in the day. Why? Because he was a nobody back then? Just lol.
Not surprisingly, you're missing the point.

You've been going off on the Jets and their poor record developing European talent. I just pointed out to you that other teams have had the same or worse track records.
 
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aniketus

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He does know that in the past 10 drafts Europeans account for about 40 percent of the players taken about 2000 players. Yet most teams are made up of North American skaters.
 

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