C/W Brad Lambert (2022, 30th, WPG) Part 3

[Svedu]

How about guy taken 4th same year as Laine, Jets fault? another one was taken fifth same year.. where is he? I dont know but be damn it was Jets fault because he did not score 40 goals from the blue line. All the finish defensmen from 2017 draft? Jets fault again I guess cuz we didnt draft them and ruin them. Heinola has had some bad luck with injuries, and with the bad states of Jets blue line, we need him more than ever.

Exactly, now you need Heinola to pan out. But he needed another franchise back then. He had already showed quite a lot to deserve bigger opportunities and especially over a longer time. I blame mostly the Jets and a smaller part on his unlucky injuries if he doesn't pan out. That kid has always had some serious IQ going. Really outstanding decision making with the puck and so cool. Let's just hope the Jets hasn't ruined his mojo and his confidence by now.

 

[Buffdog]

And a lot of finns make it as well. Lame answer bud.

Who was the last top 5 Finnish pick who lived up to their potential?

 

[Svedu]

Maybe you should explain how the Jets have mishandled Finnish prospects then? Instead of baseless claims?

Laine? His best seasons were in Winnipeg. Most Jets fans think fondly of Laine as well.

Heinola? He's been close and would have made the team last year but fractured his ankle. He's got a good chance to make it this year. He hadn't clearly taken someone else's spot before. I've been a Heinola backer, and wouldn't have had an issue with him getting more NHL time. But he has to beat someone as well. He wasn't taking a spot from Morrissey or Dillon. And he wasn't taking a spot from Samberg.

Vesalainen? His skating never improved and he didn't develop into a NHL caliber player. That's not on the Jets.

Kupari? You mean the player drafted and developed by the Kings and only came to the Jets last year in a trade at 24? Love to know the Jets faults on his "development".

Nikannen? He's a low scoring 4th round pick who's been low scoring in the AHL. He's not NHL caliber and you wouldn't know his name if he wasn't Finnish.

No Jets fans are bitter about Finnish prospects. Lot's of good memories of Laine, and Heinola is looking to earn his spot this year. Reading the handwringing Finnish articles by the same reporter, the bitterness is clearly one-sided, and coming from some conspiracy made up in his mind. Looks like some easily drink his cool aid.


Happy to see how Heinola might look this year, and happy to have Lambert who's looking good so far though. Guess that doesn't fit the narrative though.

Baseless claims? How did Maurice handle Laine and the whole situation? Who backed a young Laine? How are you guys trying to fulfill Kuparis potential?
No, besides Scheifele, Connor and Ehlers panning out and they aren't worth mentioning compared to Barkov, Aho, Rantanen and others btw, I just don't see it. That the Jets is a good franchise for youth development.
Lambert was always a huge prospect with elite tools. Also, he hasn't made it yet. And it's not like he would've had a harder time playing on Lundells or Barkovs wing either. Imagine Jets fans taking cred for developing Lambert. At one point he was clearly considered a top3 pick. Stop fooling yourselves.

Who was the last top 5 Finnish pick who lived up to their potential?

Barkov, Laine and Lundell have been pretty awesome if you ask me. Laine had a lot of problems of course but this can happen to anyone. I mean he's been better than Nolan Patrick and that's for damn sure. Or Nail Yakupov and others...

I mean in all honesty? Your franchise would cry out of happiness if you got your hands on Barkov or Rantanen. Who are you trying to fool here?

 

[Svedu]

At least Flyers fans can both blame the youth development and not only the scouting. Jets fans seem to mostly blame the actual prospect. But hey, let's hope I'm wrong.
And again, yeah I do believe he would be better in the Flyers playing in a future line together with Tuomaala and Michkov. And Flyers hasn't exactly been the best franchise for young talents before so I don't say this lightly.

 

[tbcwpg]

Baseless claims? How did Maurice handle Laine and the whole situation? Who backed a young Laine? How are you guys trying to fulfill Kuparis potential?
No, besides Scheifele, Connor and Ehlers panning out and they aren't worth mentioning compared to Barkov, Aho, Rantanen and others btw, I just don't see it. That the Jets is a good franchise for youth development.
Lambert was always a huge prospect with elite tools. Also, he hasn't made it yet. And it's not like he would've had a harder time playing on Lundells or Barkovs wing either. Imagine Jets fans taking cred for developing Lambert. At one point he was clearly considered a top3 pick. Stop fooling yourselves.


Barkov, Laine and Lundell have been pretty awesome if you ask me. Laine had a lot of problems of course but this can happen to anyone. I mean he's been better than Nolan Patrick and that's for damn sure. Or Nail Yakupov and others...

I mean in all honesty? Your franchise would cry out of happiness if you got your hands on Barkov or Rantanen. Who are you trying to fool here?

Kupari doesn't seem to have much potential. He's never scored very well at any level. He's fast and that seems about it.

Josh Morrissey has panned out. Adam Lowry is the captain. Dylan Samberg is a solid NHL defenceman. Connor Hellebuyck is a 2 time Vezina winner. Cole Perfetti is getting NHL time. Lambert is playing quite well and on track to make the team pretty soon.

Laine has been good but hasn't matched the hype behind the pick yet. I hope the mental health time he took for himself re-energizes him but I do have concerns his hip is limiting his ceiling. Rantanen wasn't a top 5 pick. I think any team would love to have them, yes.

Any Laine bashing done by Jets fans is largely a result of his fans coming into the Jets board and bashing the team for not making him the focal point. A certain "professor" comes to mind for that.

 

[Buffdog]

Baseless claims? How did Maurice handle Laine and the whole situation? Who backed a young Laine? How are you guys trying to fulfill Kuparis potential?
No, besides Scheifele, Connor and Ehlers panning out and they aren't worth mentioning compared to Barkov, Aho, Rantanen and others btw, I just don't see it. That the Jets is a good franchise for youth development.
Lambert was always a huge prospect with elite tools. Also, he hasn't made it yet. And it's not like he would've had a harder time playing on Lundells or Barkovs wing either. Imagine Jets fans taking cred for developing Lambert. At one point he was clearly considered a top3 pick. Stop fooling yourselves.


Barkov, Laine and Lundell have been pretty awesome if you ask me. Laine had a lot of problems of course but this can happen to anyone. I mean he's been better than Nolan Patrick and that's for damn sure. Or Nail Yakupov and others...

I mean in all honesty? Your franchise would cry out of happiness if you got your hands on Barkov or Rantanen. Who are you trying to fool here?

For every Barkov or Rantanan, there are 3 busts

Lundell is a 3rd line centre. We passed on him in the draft for a reason

Laine is perpetually injured or some other issue. Certainly not Worth 8.7M and all the headaches that come along with him

 

[Romang67]

How are you guys trying to fulfill Kuparis potential?

The 24 year old grown man who spent 4 years with the Kings organization and couldn't make it as a full time NHL player for them?

What's his potential, exactly?

 

[Jussi]

Really reminds you of when Laine did his "developing" in Finland after being drafted by the Jets. Strength, conditioning, no skating, and has spent the past 4 seasons injured.

Laine played with Winnipeg right after being drafted.

Patrik Laine - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Patrik Laine, 1998-04-19 Tampere, FIN Finland. Most recently in the NHL with Montréal Canadiens. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[Romang67]

Laine played with Winnipeg right after being drafted.

Patrik Laine - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Patrik Laine, 1998-04-19 Tampere, FIN Finland. Most recently in the NHL with Montréal Canadiens. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

And he did strength and conditioning training with some famous trainer in Finland the following summers, to the consternation of Jets fans because of the reported lack of developing his skating.

I'm poking fun at the idea that Winnipeg is stalling these players' development. I mean, go back in this thread around the draft, and look at what Finnish fans thought of both Lambert and the idea that Winnipeg would develop him. It was dumb nonsense back then, and it's dumb nonsense now.

 

[Svedu]

For every Barkov or Rantanan, there are 3 busts

Lundell is a 3rd line centre. We passed on him in the draft for a reason

Laine is perpetually injured or some other issue. Certainly not Worth 8.7M and all the headaches that come along with him

Omega fkn lol. Scheifele is the only better center in your roster than Lundell. Also, Lundell is ten years younger! I would pick Lundell over Vilardi and others every single time.
Look att Lundells age and the amount of trophies he has already won and what he has achieved. Let's not forget he has also been a big contributing factor in every trophy.

But hey, I guess you know better

Edit: Or actually, you don't. Take a look at your center depth in your system. If Lambert doesn't become the first center and really pans out? You guys look hella weak haha. Better luck next time.

 

[Svedu]

And he did strength and conditioning training with some famous trainer in Finland the following summers, to the consternation of Jets fans because of the reported lack of developing his skating.

I'm poking fun at the idea that Winnipeg is stalling these players' development. I mean, go back in this thread around the draft, and look at what Finnish fans thought of both Lambert and the idea that Winnipeg would develop him. It was dumb nonsense back then, and it's dumb nonsense now.

What about Heinola then? He was better than Byram, Drysdale and others in the same WJC's. And they were good as well but Heinola was special. He's the best Finnish D I've seen at that level. Heiskanen was so much younger than others so he didn't dominate in the offense in any special way. Niemelä was a beast as well.
So yeah, Jets are making something bad imho if Heinola can't at least become a decent NHLer.

 

[Jussi]

And he did strength and conditioning training with some famous trainer in Finland the following summers, to the consternation of Jets fans because of the reported lack of developing his skating.

I'm poking fun at the idea that Winnipeg is stalling these players' development. I mean, go back in this thread around the draft, and look at what Finnish fans thought of both Lambert and the idea that Winnipeg would develop him. It was dumb nonsense back then, and it's dumb nonsense now.

What has Lambert done on NHL level so far? Not counting rookie camp/pre-season games? Until he's a NHL regular, you can't say he's really developed enough.

 

[Huffer]

Baseless claims? How did Maurice handle Laine and the whole situation? Who backed a young Laine? How are you guys trying to fulfill Kuparis potential?
No, besides Scheifele, Connor and Ehlers panning out and they aren't worth mentioning compared to Barkov, Aho, Rantanen and others btw, I just don't see it. That the Jets is a good franchise for youth development.
Lambert was always a huge prospect with elite tools. Also, he hasn't made it yet. And it's not like he would've had a harder time playing on Lundells or Barkovs wing either. Imagine Jets fans taking cred for developing Lambert. At one point he was clearly considered a top3 pick. Stop fooling yourselves.

Laine, you mean the guy the Jets allowed to play his own game and gave him PP1 time?

Kupari? They've had him for 1 season where he got hurt, and while he has good speed he didn't produce. He needs to bust his ass to get a 4th line spot and that's not looking great. That's on him.

But please, give us your expert opinion on exactly how the Jets have keep everyone else down. Is it every single prospect the Jets purposely try to ruin, or does the organization just love to only purposely ruin Finnish prospects? I just want to know to keep up with the nonsense narrative.

Heinola had some games a few years ago and his skating is top notch. But he needed to go to the AHL and further develop his game, especially on the defensive side. He likely makes the team last year but broke his ankle. There also are not clearly defined players he would have beaten out the last few years. It's not a conspiracy, and the Jets are not ruining his development. And I'm someone who has leaned hard on the "we need to see more of Heinola in the NHL" side of things the last few years.

Kupari I've already mentioned. Vesalinen never developed his skating and if he's not scoring doesn't have a two way game. Nikkannen is a 4th round pick who doesn't score in the AHL. The Jets have given both Vesalinen and Nikkannen time and opportunities in the AHL and they didn't produce.

So how about you show your work. What "specifically" did the Jets do to keep these guys down?

Torgersson is also a Jets prospect who they took in the 2nd round in 2020 and he hasn't developed at all. Not great skating, not good AHL production and couldn't bury much of anything at the recent prospects tournament. Did the Jets ruin him too, or does he not count because he's Swedish?

It's a shocking concept, but sometimes prospects don't pan out.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What has Lambert done on NHL level so far? Not counting rookie camp/pre-season games? Until he's a NHL regular, you can't say he's really developed enough.

You don't think he's come a long way since being drafted?

He was the best player in the AHL last year from his draft class.

 

[Jussi]

You don't think he's come a long way since being drafted?

He was the best player in the AHL last year from his draft class.

I said NHL, not AHL. We've seen Finns ecxel in AHL in the past before but do nothing in NHL.

 

[Svedu]

I said NHL, not AHL. We've seen Finns ecxel in AHL in the past before but do nothing in NHL.

This, a bit like Kemell. They have both been very promising or looked super talented in different times so far but they need to become consistent and show that they can earn a top6 spot in the NHL. Lamberts first WJC was better than both the second and the third. So it's not only because of Jets. The talent was always obvious.
It's more because of himself rather than the Jets and that he has shown glimpses of being streaky and when lacking confidence looking completely clueless on ice. But boy can that kid fly and he has some good tools.
I won't take anything for granted with him. But if Jets can do something right then they might have the biggest prospect in their organization in Lambert.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I said NHL, not AHL. We've seen Finns ecxel in AHL in the past before but do nothing in NHL

I know, but my point was that he very clearly has developed since being drafted.

I'd be shocked if he didn't become an impact NHLer.

 

[Svedu]

Laine, you mean the guy the Jets allowed to play his own game and gave him PP1 time?

Kupari? They've had him for 1 season where he got hurt, and while he has good speed he didn't produce. He needs to bust his ass to get a 4th line spot and that's not looking great. That's on him.

But please, give us your expert opinion on exactly how the Jets have keep everyone else down. Is it every single prospect the Jets purposely try to ruin, or does the organization just love to only purposely ruin Finnish prospects? I just want to know to keep up with the nonsense narrative.

Heinola had some games a few years ago and his skating is top notch. But he needed to go to the AHL and further develop his game, especially on the defensive side. He likely makes the team last year but broke his ankle. There also are not clearly defined players he would have beaten out the last few years. It's not a conspiracy, and the Jets are not ruining his development. And I'm someone who has leaned hard on the "we need to see more of Heinola in the NHL" side of things the last few years.

Kupari I've already mentioned. Vesalinen never developed his skating and if he's not scoring doesn't have a two way game. Nikkannen is a 4th round pick who doesn't score in the AHL. The Jets have given both Vesalinen and Nikkannen time and opportunities in the AHL and they didn't produce.

So how about you show your work. What "specifically" did the Jets do to keep these guys down?

Torgersson is also a Jets prospect who they took in the 2nd round in 2020 and he hasn't developed at all. Not great skating, not good AHL production and couldn't bury much of anything at the recent prospects tournament. Did the Jets ruin him too, or does he not count because he's Swedish?

It's a shocking concept, but sometimes prospects don't pan out.

Heinola is the one who needs PP1 time if anyone. He's a OD in my mind and has always been. Don't try to mold him to something he isn't. That's the Jets problem. He's the best quarterback in your franchise potential wise. But he will never be great at defending. Either you understand that or just pass on him and let him excel in another franchise. Like why even draft him if he can't play to his strengths? You mention his skating but the strongest attributes I've seen in him is not the speed. It's decision making with the puck, being calm and collected and a bit cheeky while at it. Also regarding the skating, his strengths has been more at the agility side of it. Twisting and turning with the puck, he's difficult to figure out for his opponents.

Let's just hope he gets his chances. Just like Lambert. But when it comes to hockey-IQ I can assure you that of all of the Finnish prospects you've drafted he's superior at that department. Heinola is great while Lambert and especially Kupari have always been questioned at the same department.

Regarding Vesalainen you are probably right. But I would've still wished to see him in another franchise. Even if his mentality and willingness to grind has been questionable through the years. So not the biggest shocker either.

Kupari on the other hand, he actually had more than decent hands when young. Together with his smooth skating he was able to dangle most opponents. And he did grow very late so a bit shocking to see him struggle so much. Even if the IQ part of his game was always the most questioned during his years in Finland.

I feel like compared to the flyers who before these last drafts sucked at both scouting- drafting and developing prospects, that the Jets were only or worse or bad in the latter part. That's why it's more questionable, or at least in my world.

You can add Gustafsson, Lundmark. Pretty bad development with both Swedish and Finnish players while you are mentioning it.

 

[Buffdog]

Omega fkn lol. Scheifele is the only better center in your roster than Lundell. Also, Lundell is ten years younger! I would pick Lundell over Vilardi and others every single time.
Look att Lundells age and the amount of trophies he has already won and what he has achieved. Let's not forget he has also been a big contributing factor in every trophy.

But hey, I guess you know better

Edit: Or actually, you don't. Take a look at your center depth in your system. If Lambert doesn't become the first center and really pans out? You guys look hella weak haha. Better luck next time.

I prefer Perfetti to lundell. Much higher ceiling. Glad we picked him

Always take best player available, and we did

 

[Svedu]

I prefer Perfetti to lundell. Much higher ceiling. Glad we picked him

Always take best player available, and we did

Just lol. There is nothing that indicates that he would better now or have a higher ceiling. Lundell is responsible and playing BP and in a defensive role very often. Still has 112 points in the NHL, a Stanley, 28 points in the playoffs. Perfetti has what? 75 points in the NHL and zero points in the playoffs. Frankly? If you are being serious, which I doubt, then you are nothing but delusional at this point.

And if you insist on talking about ceilings just because you want to reach after a valid point even if don't have a single one? Then Lambert has probably just as high or actually even higher of a ceiling than Perfetti.

 

[Buffdog]

Just lol. There is nothing that indicates that he would better now or have a higher ceiling. Lundell is responsible and playing BP and in a defensive role very often. Still has 112 points in the NHL, a Stanley, 28 points in the playoffs. Perfetti has what? 75 points in the NHL and zero points in the playoffs. Frankly? If you are being serious, which I doubt, then you are nothing but delusional at this point.

And if you insist on talking about ceilings just because you want to reach after a valid point even if don't have a single one? Then Lambert has probably just as high or actually even higher of a ceiling than Perfetti.

Let's wait and see on lundell/perfetti. I like lundell too, but he is what he is. He was more pro-ready in his draft year and Cole had to grow and fill out. I'd bet my left nut that cole has a better season this year

And I agree on Lambert having a higher ceiling than perfetti. It took a North American team taking control of his development path to get him on the right track. Had they left him in Finland, he'd be another classic Finnish bust A la KK, Kappo, juolevi, Poolpary, etc

 

[thomast]

Let's wait and see on lundell/perfetti. I like lundell too, but he is what he is. He was more pro-ready in his draft year and Cole had to grow and fill out. I'd bet my left nut that cole has a better season this year

And I agree on Lambert having a higher ceiling than perfetti. It took a North American team taking control of his development path to get him on the right track. Had they left him in Finland, he'd be another classic Finnish bust A la KK, Kappo, juolevi, Poolpary, etc

Kotkaniemi, Kakko, Juolevi and Puljujärvi all went to their North American teams right after the draft. Really wierd argument, because Lambert left later on his post draft year. Nothing to do with Finnish teams.

 

[Buffdog]

Kotkaniemi, Kakko, Juolevi and Puljujärvi all went to their North American teams right after the draft. Really wierd argument, because Lambert left later on his post draft year. Nothing to do with Finnish teams.

Maybe those guys should have spent some time in the AHL or CHL too (or both)

I think a problem is that Liga is so weak that decent 18 year old players look better than they are playing in it.

If I were a good Finnish 15 year old, I'd get over to North America ASAP.

 

[lanky]

I prefer Perfetti to lundell. Much higher ceiling. Glad we picked him

Always take best player available, and we did

Drafting on talent alone without considering position gets you a nifty pile of left wings.

The coaches will leave because a nifty pile of left wings isn't a team. The younger left wings will be disgruntled because there's no openings for them. The fans will leave because the dysfunction is hard to cheer (and pay) for.

Yes, this is dramatized but there's plenty of truth in it.

 

[Buffdog]

Drafting on talent alone without considering position gets you a nifty pile of left wings.

The coaches will leave because a nifty pile of left wings isn't a team. The younger left wings will be disgruntled because there's no openings for them. The fans will leave because the dysfunction is hard to cheer (and pay) for.

Yes, this is dramatized but there's plenty of truth in it.

Every NHL front office disagrees with you, but whatever. What do they know?