C/W Brad Lambert (2022, 30th, WPG) Part 3

[57special]

Great if Lambert finds his way in an NA game, since he is a very entertaining player to watch ideally. For his tools, perhaps hockey IQ isnt such an issue because if you have the speed and the hands, you can play very straightforward in NA.

Definitely think WHL or AHL are right for him, no sense in returning to Finland as he has been miserable here, unfortunately.

I disagree. IQ is very important in the NA game, also. If I'm going to have a lower IQ player then I'd rather have him on the wing than d or C, but in general, if you don't play smart, then it's a big handicap to success in either the NHL or the AHL.

 

[MardyBum]

The smallest of sample sizes though? People say international tournaments aren’t relevant for scouting because they are short sample sizes and this is literally 2 to 4 games shorter than any international event. 3 good games in a shinny hockey environment is a lot different than grinding for a whole year in tight systems against grown men.

I think he would likely be fine at the AHL level but wow has a good 3 game run ever changed the total perspective on this kid.

Changed perspective? The same people calling him garbage are still calling him garbage. The same people saying he is more than what he showed last year are saying the same thing, AHL is the best option if he shows in TC he can handle it.

He's more physically ready for the AHL than Perfetti was, who was weaker on his skates and much slower straight line than Lambert. Obviously Perfetti has insane hockey IQ which helped him get over those deficiencies, but this isn't the AHL of a decade ago anymore. U20's can develop there just fine, Covid proved it.

 

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

I think he will flourish in the AHL. Don't see the risk in putting him there.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

I think ultimately he goes to the AHL. I would love to see him in the WHL, but I’m not sure I want him developing in Saskatoon. The only forwards to come out of there as regular NHLers in the last 20 years are Kirby Dach and Setoguchi.

It would be cool to see him play with the Winnipeg Ice. That team is going to be a powerhouse again this year.

 

[kingpest19]

I think ultimately he goes to the AHL. I would love to see him in the WHL, but I’m not sure I want him developing in Saskatoon. The only forwards to come out of there as regular NHLers in the last 20 years are Kirby Dach and Setoguchi.

It would be cool to see him play with the Winnipeg Ice. That team is going to be a powerhouse again this year.

He wouldn't go to Saskatoon, they traded his rights to Seattle

 

[NA Hockey]

Changed perspective? The same people calling him garbage are still calling him garbage. The same people saying he is more than what he showed last year are saying the same thing, AHL is the best option if he shows in TC he can handle it.

He's more physically ready for the AHL than Perfetti was, who was weaker on his skates and much slower straight line than Lambert. Obviously Perfetti has insane hockey IQ which helped him get over those deficiencies, but this isn't the AHL of a decade ago anymore. U20's can develop there just fine, Covid proved it.

I actually think that Lambert should go the AHL and see how he does, I hope he does great. My point was more about how a three game sample doesn't indicate anything and that people shouldn't get carried away.

Lambert dropped to 30th for a reason and it wasn't because of his skating or shot, it was because of his low hockey IQ, lack of compete and lack of consistency.

Just for clarity Lambert is 1" taller and the same weight as Perfetti now. Perfetti was the same weight as Lambert was in their respective draft years, so there isn't some massive size advantage that Lambert has over him as has been intimated.

Lambert is a way faster/better skater but he is not sturdier on his feet. Perfetti's puck protection is another level than Lambert and the huge difference maker is the hockey IQ.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I actually think that Lambert should go the AHL and see how he does, I hope he does great. My point was more about how a three game sample doesn't indicate anything and that people shouldn't get carried away.

Lambert dropped to 30th for a reason and it wasn't because of his skating or shot, it was because of his low hockey IQ, lack of compete and lack of consistency.

Just for clarity Lambert is 1" taller and the same weight as Perfetti now. Perfetti was the same weight as Lambert was in their respective draft years, so there isn't some massive size advantage that Lambert has over him as has been intimated.

Lambert is a way faster/better skater but he is not sturdier on his feet. Perfetti's puck protection is another level than Lambert and the huge difference maker is the hockey IQ.

Lack of compete? Dude showed an excellent motor all year in Liga.

 

[NA Hockey]

Lack of compete? Dude showed an excellent motor all year in Liga.

Some nights his compete is excellent, some nights it looked like he didn't care and wasn't engaged at all.

If he competed every night, with his skating ability, he would never have dropped to 30th, at worst he would have gone in the 15-20 range. If he competed every night he is a sure fire 3rd liner at worst, but because of the lack of compete and consistency there is still a chance he doesn't even make it.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Some nights his compete is excellent, some nights it looked like he didn't care and wasn't engaged at all.

If he competed every night, with his skating ability, he would never have dropped to 30th, at worst he would have gone in the 15-20 range. If he competed every night he is a sure fire 3rd liner at worst, but because of the lack of compete and consistency there is still a chance he doesn't even make it.

I disagree completely

 

[NA Hockey]

I disagree completely

Thats ok, no problem we all have our own opinions and I respect yours.

Do you actually think he has a reputation as a high compete, high consistency player? I again say that if he had a consistent high compete with his elite skating, there is no way he drops to 30.

 

[ffh]

I actually think that Lambert should go the AHL and see how he does, I hope he does great. My point was more about how a three game sample doesn't indicate anything and that people shouldn't get carried away.

Lambert dropped to 30th for a reason and it wasn't because of his skating or shot, it was because of his low hockey IQ, lack of compete and lack of consistency.

Just for clarity Lambert is 1" taller and the same weight as Perfetti now. Perfetti was the same weight as Lambert was in their respective draft years, so there isn't some massive size advantage that Lambert has over him as has been intimated.

Lambert is a way faster/better skater but he is not sturdier on his feet. Perfetti's puck protection is another level than Lambert and the huge difference maker is the hockey IQ.

Lambert is at least 2 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier in their draft years. Where do get 1 inch and the same weight. Regardless perfetti played in ahl his draft year so a much bigger lambert will have no problem physically to do the same.

 

[NA Hockey]

Lambert is at least 2 inches taller and 10-15 pounds heavier in their draft years. Where do get 1 inch and the same weight. Regardless perfetti played in ahl his draft year so a much bigger lambert will have no problem physically to do the same.

they were the same weight when they were drafted within 2 pounds.

Lambert is listed at 6' 183 right now

Perfetti was drafted at 5"10 and 185 and is now 5"11 and 183

....and I agree that Lambert won't have any issues physically in the AHL

 

[MardyBum]

I actually think that Lambert should go the AHL and see how he does, I hope he does great. My point was more about how a three game sample doesn't indicate anything and that people shouldn't get carried away.

Lambert dropped to 30th for a reason and it wasn't because of his skating or shot, it was because of his low hockey IQ, lack of compete and lack of consistency.

Just for clarity Lambert is 1" taller and the same weight as Perfetti now. Perfetti was the same weight as Lambert was in their respective draft years, so there isn't some massive size advantage that Lambert has over him as has been intimated.

Lambert is a way faster/better skater but he is not sturdier on his feet. Perfetti's puck protection is another level than Lambert and the huge difference maker is the hockey IQ.

He dropped to 30 entirely because of his production in Liiga.

If he continued to play like he did in the cancelled WJC and put up 5 or 6 more points in Liiga he would have gone much higher. And he will go higher in a redraft and god will it be funny to bump. Look at the collection of "Low IQ" physical players that rank high because they're 5 inches and 40 lbs heavier than everyone else.

Perfetti was not strong on his skates, he is now. He used his IQ to protect the puck but that only goes so far, and it took him time to deal with that in the AHL. He's spent a good amount of time to improve his lower body but still has a long way to go, but he is a guy who's going to be putting up 60 points this year, so comparing him now to Lambert is not fair.

But if you took a few minutes to watch the penticton tournament, you would see Lambert anticipating the play and blowing the zone for a stretch pass, or aggressively backchecking and causing a turnover leading to a goal, or diving into the corner and fighting for the puck and digging it out to lead to a goal.

He needs to work on his decision making, and wow, now he has a team that has his interests #1 instead of (rightfully) trying to win games.

"Hockey IQ Hockey IQ".

Can't teach it, just like normal IQ. No one can ever learn and better themselves in the eyes of geriatrics.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Thats ok, no problem we all have our own opinions and I respect yours.

Do you actually think he has a reputation as a high compete, high consistency player? I again say that if he had a consistent high compete with his elite skating, there is no way he drops to 30.

I don't know what his reputation is, only that in the dozen or so games I saw him play in Liga, his compete level was never an issue. Consistency? Sure, like many young players playing in pro leagues, he struggled with shift to shift consistency.

 

[Jukurit]

He dropped to 30 entirely because of his production in Liiga.

If he continued to play like he did in the cancelled WJC and put up 5 or 6 more points in Liiga he would have gone much higher. And he will go higher in a redraft and god will it be funny to bump. Look at the collection of "Low IQ" physical players that rank high because they're 5 inches and 40 lbs heavier than everyone else.

Perfetti was not strong on his skates, he is now. He used his IQ to protect the puck but that only goes so far, and it took him time to deal with that in the AHL. He's spent a good amount of time to improve his lower body but still has a long way to go, but he is a guy who's going to be putting up 60 points this year, so comparing him now to Lambert is not fair.

But if you took a few minutes to watch the penticton tournament, you would see Lambert anticipating the play and blowing the zone for a stretch pass, or aggressively backchecking and causing a turnover leading to a goal, or diving into the corner and fighting for the puck and digging it out to lead to a goal.

He needs to work on his decision making, and wow, now he has a team that has his interests #1 instead of (rightfully) trying to win games.

"Hockey IQ Hockey IQ".

Can't teach it, just like normal IQ. No one can ever learn and better themselves in the eyes of geriatrics.

He dropped to 30 because he played like ass most of the time.

At cancelled WJC, he put up points against 2 weak teams. His linemates Koivunen and Helenius also scored a lot of points there, and then all 3 struggled to do much of anything at the actual WJC.

Lambert played pretty bad most of the time in Liiga, but still kept getting games and minutes, so clearly, both JYP and Pelicans had his interests over winning games. In an actual good Liiga team, Lambert would have been scratched, benched and sent down to juniors many times with the way he played.

Well, I think the biggest problem with Lambert in Liiga was that in 2 years he showed very little improvement. Kept making the same mistakes over and over again. That raises some questions. Does he not know how to get better or is he not willing to get better?

 

[SoundAndFury]

He dropped to 30 entirely because of his production in Liiga.

Scouts aren't stat-watchers. Especially when it comes to one of the most heavily scouted prospects in the draft, someone they have been following for years. Where they make some of the most well-informed decisions in the draft.

Jukurit hit the nail right on the head - he dropped to 30 mostly because his development curve has pretty much flatlined. There is very little improvement in this game and everyone was there to see it for the reasons stated above.

Your current take is basically "had he played better he would have gone higher". This is true. But he didn't, that's the whole point and it's a huge cause for concern. It's not about his production, it's about his production and level of play arguably (and shockingly) dropping in his draft year compared to D-1.

 

[ffh]

He dropped to 30 because he played like ass most of the time.

At cancelled WJC, he put up points against 2 weak teams. His linemates Koivunen and Helenius also scored a lot of points there, and then all 3 struggled to do much of anything at the actual WJC.

Lambert played pretty bad most of the time in Liiga, but still kept getting games and minutes, so clearly, both JYP and Pelicans had his interests over winning games. In an actual good Liiga team, Lambert would have been scratched, benched and sent down to juniors many times with the way he played.

Well, I think the biggest problem with Lambert in Liiga was that in 2 years he showed very little improvement. Kept making the same mistakes over and over again. That raises some questions. Does he not know how to get better or is he not willing to get better?

you keep beating a dead horse. nobody cares how bad he was in liiga. you gave two reasons why he shouldnt play in ahl. his confidence and his size. he is very confident and physically mature to play in ahl. nobody is buying those 2 reasons. rather then moving on you decided to tell all again how bad he was in liiga. he was bad we get it.

 

[jgimp]

perfetti survived just fine in the ahl in his draft year and he is way smaller.

Perfetti has one of the highest on ice IQ’s of any rookie in hockey. That helped him adapt his game rather quickly.
Lambert would be best served in a league where he can build back his confidence. Jets should assign him to Seattle and pencil him to a contract with a nice bonus. Build that confidence and round out his 2 way game and he can come into next years camp brimming with confidence and better understanding of the NA game.
The Jets org has never been one to rush prospects, I doubt they start now (although I could see a handful of games to give him a taste of course)

 

[MNRube]

I agree that he is the rare player who would benefit from going from a pro league in Europe to the CHL.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Perfetti has one of the highest on ice IQ’s of any rookie in hockey. That helped him adapt his game rather quickly.
Lambert would be best served in a league where he can build back his confidence. Jets should assign him to Seattle and pencil him to a contract with a nice bonus. Build that confidence and round out his 2 way game and he can come into next years camp brimming with confidence and better understanding of the NA game.
The Jets org has never been one to rush prospects, I doubt they start now (although I could see a handful of games to give him a taste of course)

His confidence seemed fine in Penticton... He needs to mature his game to be effective at the NHL level. Going to the WHL and skating circles around 17 year old defenseman is not going to help his game mature. Its more likely to cause him to reinforce some of his bad habits.

Put him in a league where things happen quickly and he can't just skate around with the puck the whole game.

 

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

Lambert has a confidence problem, not an IQ problem.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Lambert has a confidence problem, not an IQ problem.

Yep, and when he plays with confidence, like he did in Penticton, his IQ starts to again become a strength. He processes the game very quickly, its just his decision making can be poor at times. The latter can be much more easily improved than the former, and is often immediately improved with the conviction that comes with confidence.

 

[ffh]

Perfetti has one of the highest on ice IQ’s of any rookie in hockey. That helped him adapt his game rather quickly.
Lambert would be best served in a league where he can build back his confidence. Jets should assign him to Seattle and pencil him to a contract with a nice bonus. Build that confidence and round out his 2 way game and he can come into next years camp brimming with confidence and better understanding of the NA game.
The Jets org has never been one to rush prospects, I doubt they start now (although I could see a handful of games to give him a taste of course)

The only thing he needs is 15-20 minutes a game and be on pp1. Something he hasnt gotten in 2 years or that is guaranteed in seattle. The only team I trust 100% to give him that plus superior coaching is the moose. Don't see him going to Seattle.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

After leading the Penticton tournament in scoring, he's been extremely noticeable in a positive way in his first preseason game. Creating a lot of chances with his speed while being positionally responsible. He will be credited with an assist if he hasn't already.

I think the AHL will be a good starting point for him but I really think he could play in the NHL right now and be just fine.

 

[thomast]

Lambert has a confidence problem, not an IQ problem.

In Finland it was other way around. He was too confident and didn’t utilize other players around him. This confidence allows him to play like he does right now. In his head he is NHL ready.