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C Samuel Honzek - Vancouver Giants, WHL (2023, 16th, CGY)

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Antiillafire said:
No hatty but a 4 point night. 25 pts in 18 games now. Crazy how a year ago many wouldn’t have him making Slovak WJC team, now he’s pretty much a lock for the top line.
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I guess the pertinent question is that telling of Honzek or the Slovak WJC team?
 
Bubbles said:
6'3 centres don't grow on trees, so I suspect someone will take him high.
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Not sure if it was posted and I missed it but he is #48 on McKeens rankings and Nate Danielson is ranked 18th and that's one of his lower rankings too.
 
Bubbles said:
There's a McKeens thread here and I mentioned his low ranking on that thread.
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I have looked at that thread but it's been a very long week and I actually don't recall any of that thread really.

Just having a look through it now to catch up.
 
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stastny12 said:
How high can he go in the draft? Potential TOP 10?
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The draft is way too strong for him to go that high. If his season continues along this path and he has a good WJC and maybe even WC I could see maybe around pick 20-25. I do think he’s better than some forwards who are viewed in the top half of the first round like Otto stenberg.
 
Antiillafire said:
The draft is way too strong for him to go that high. If his season continues along this path and he has a good WJC and maybe even WC I could see maybe around pick 20-25. I do think he’s better than some forwards who are viewed in the top half of the first round like Otto stenberg.
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WC is pretty unrealistic for him, but you never know. Lets start with WJC first. I remember many players who dominated in CHL, but showed big sh1t at WJC for Slovakia. He was pretty weak at summer tournament.
 
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Honzek is a good example to discuss a question I often have with the draft, especially for import players in the CHL: How much of an impact does the team have on a player's draft position?

Of course, Honzek is scoring at a crazy rate. He's the top scorer of his team and one of the best in the league, and he isn't even playing on the top line with Ostapchuk, who is scoring at a 1.5 points-per-game rate. So it's safe to say that Honzek isn't just profiting from his linemates, he's the driver on his line and a top player on his team.

But imagine he'd been drafted by the Royals instead. Still playing in the WHL, still playing in BC, but this time on the worst team in the league. The Royals' top scorer is Jake Poole with exactly 1 point per game. Both Honzek and Poole are goal scorers, so let's assume their coaches want to spread them out across two lines like the Giants are doing with Honzek and Ostapchuk. Instead of playing with Thorpe and Gronick at even strength and Ostapchuk on the PP, Honzek is now playing with Reggie Newman and Anthony Wilson, who've combined for 10 points so far this season.

Would Honzek be top 10 in league scoring? Would he be scoring 1.5 points per game as he is in Vancouver? And if not, would we still be talking about him as a potential first-rounder who could be a top-15 pick in any non-2023 draft?

One similar example that comes to mind is Ty Dellandrea, who was drafted 13th overall out of a terrible situation in Flint, where he scored just 59 points in 67 games in his draft year. He's now in his first full NHL season. So it's definitely possible. But then you look at a guy like Tommaso De Luca in Spokane, who's struggling with an awful Chiefs team and still putting up decent points, yet he's completely dropped out of the draft conversation.

Yes, points aren't everything. But it often makes me wonder.
 
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pgfan66 said:
Honzek is a good example to discuss a question I often have with the draft, especially for import players in the CHL: How much of an impact does the team have on a player's draft position?

Of course, Honzek is scoring at a crazy rate. He's the top scorer of his team and one of the best in the league, and he isn't even playing on the top line with Ostapchuk, who is scoring at a 1.5 points-per-game rate. So it's safe to say that Honzek isn't just profiting from his linemates, he's the driver on his line and a top player on his team.

But imagine he'd been drafted by the Royals instead. Still playing in the WHL, still playing in BC, but this time on the worst team in the league. The Royals' top scorer is Jake Poole with exactly 1 point per game. Both Honzek and Poole are goal scorers, so let's assume their coaches want to spread them out across two lines like the Giants are doing with Honzek and Ostapchuk. Instead of playing with Thorpe and Gronick at even strength and Ostapchuk on the PP, Honzek is now playing with Reggie Newman and Anthony Wilson, who've combined for 10 points so far this season.

Would Honzek be top 10 in league scoring? Would he be scoring 1.5 points per game as he is in Vancouver? And if not, would we still be talking about him as a potential first-rounder who could be a top-15 pick in any non-2023 draft?

One similar example that comes to mind is Ty Dellandrea, who was drafted 13th overall out of a terrible situation in Flint, where he scored just 59 points in 67 games in his draft year. He's now in his first full NHL season. So it's definitely possible. But then you look at a guy like Tommaso De Luca in Spokane, who's struggling with an awful Chiefs team and still putting up decent points, yet he's completely dropped out of the draft conversation.

Yes, points aren't everything. But it often makes me wonder.
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Yes, this example could be applied. But in Honzek's case, it doesn't make sense to me. In addition to the fact that this is his first year overseas, he is leading the entire team with his points. He even significantly outplays 20-year-old players, see Thorpe.

Your hypothesis is perfectly fine, but I rather have a question: isn't Vancouver doing so well because of how excellent Honzek is playing?

He also has a ridiculous amount of points in the WHL, which is known for being a low-scoring league.

In my opinion, he really looks like a player who should go in the first round.
 
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Good players usually makes team better even the rest of the guys are not that good. That is why im concerned about Cal Ritchies production. It is ok to make "low" points total but you need to seperate yourself from the rest of your team mates in points. Ofcourse there is lots of other things than points but if just look at points. See Monahan on his draft year. Low point totals but big gap inside his team scoring.
 
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Only time will tell if Honzek is able to keep his point production that high. He started last year in the slovak pro league quite impressive, had 8 goals + 0 assists in his first 15 games but only 2+4 in the following 48 games. Perhaps he was taken at the beginning too lightly by the opponents or his role in the team changed, I don't know. But he is much better player now than he was one year ago. His skating has improved and also his passing based not solely on amount of assists but rather on their quality.
 
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pgfan66 said:
Honzek is a good example to discuss a question I often have with the draft, especially for import players in the CHL: How much of an impact does the team have on a player's draft position?

Of course, Honzek is scoring at a crazy rate. He's the top scorer of his team and one of the best in the league, and he isn't even playing on the top line with Ostapchuk, who is scoring at a 1.5 points-per-game rate. So it's safe to say that Honzek isn't just profiting from his linemates, he's the driver on his line and a top player on his team.

But imagine he'd been drafted by the Royals instead. Still playing in the WHL, still playing in BC, but this time on the worst team in the league. The Royals' top scorer is Jake Poole with exactly 1 point per game. Both Honzek and Poole are goal scorers, so let's assume their coaches want to spread them out across two lines like the Giants are doing with Honzek and Ostapchuk. Instead of playing with Thorpe and Gronick at even strength and Ostapchuk on the PP, Honzek is now playing with Reggie Newman and Anthony Wilson, who've combined for 10 points so far this season.

Would Honzek be top 10 in league scoring? Would he be scoring 1.5 points per game as he is in Vancouver? And if not, would we still be talking about him as a potential first-rounder who could be a top-15 pick in any non-2023 draft?

One similar example that comes to mind is Ty Dellandrea, who was drafted 13th overall out of a terrible situation in Flint, where he scored just 59 points in 67 games in his draft year. He's now in his first full NHL season. So it's definitely possible. But then you look at a guy like Tommaso De Luca in Spokane, who's struggling with an awful Chiefs team and still putting up decent points, yet he's completely dropped out of the draft conversation.

Yes, points aren't everything. But it often makes me wonder.
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I agree, the thing with him though is that when you actually watch the games, it’s not like he’s cruising around and riding shot gun on his way to these point totals. He is driving a line, and even from the first few games of the season you could see he was an impact player. Early season against Seattle he had this great play where he took the puck from the boards and cut through the middle past the C and LD and almost scored.

And I think the situation compared to De Luca is a little different, De Luca spent 40 games in the Swiss u20 league (and wasn’t even the top ppg DY-1 player) while Honzek played that many and more in the Slovak league. The games plus the training obviously benefited him significantly.

You could do the swap for any player, what if Brayden Yager wasn’t playing with Moose Jaw where he gets to play with Firkus and on the Pp with Mateychuk? If Honzek was on Spokane would he elevate both Cheveldayoff and Bertholet? If De Luca was on Vancouver, would Thorpe, Ostapchuk and Leslie’s numbers be lower?

I think Suzdalev is a good comparison, 21 pts in 18 games. Playing second line LW, not with Bedard. But 12 of his points are on the powerplay where he gets to play with a generational talent, a PPG dman, and a potential top 15 pick next year. Compare that to Honzek, just 7 points of his 28 are on the powerplay where he plays with just 1 drafted second rounder. Imagine swapping Suzdalev and Honzek, tack on what an extra 7-8 points to Honzek’s total and take how much away from Suzdalev, Thorpe and ostapchuk’s?
 
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pgfan66 said:
Honzek is a good example to discuss a question I often have with the draft, especially for import players in the CHL: How much of an impact does the team have on a player's draft position?

Of course, Honzek is scoring at a crazy rate. He's the top scorer of his team and one of the best in the league, and he isn't even playing on the top line with Ostapchuk, who is scoring at a 1.5 points-per-game rate. So it's safe to say that Honzek isn't just profiting from his linemates, he's the driver on his line and a top player on his team.

But imagine he'd been drafted by the Royals instead. Still playing in the WHL, still playing in BC, but this time on the worst team in the league. The Royals' top scorer is Jake Poole with exactly 1 point per game. Both Honzek and Poole are goal scorers, so let's assume their coaches want to spread them out across two lines like the Giants are doing with Honzek and Ostapchuk. Instead of playing with Thorpe and Gronick at even strength and Ostapchuk on the PP, Honzek is now playing with Reggie Newman and Anthony Wilson, who've combined for 10 points so far this season.

Would Honzek be top 10 in league scoring? Would he be scoring 1.5 points per game as he is in Vancouver? And if not, would we still be talking about him as a potential first-rounder who could be a top-15 pick in any non-2023 draft?

One similar example that comes to mind is Ty Dellandrea, who was drafted 13th overall out of a terrible situation in Flint, where he scored just 59 points in 67 games in his draft year. He's now in his first full NHL season. So it's definitely possible. But then you look at a guy like Tommaso De Luca in Spokane, who's struggling with an awful Chiefs team and still putting up decent points, yet he's completely dropped out of the draft conversation.

Yes, points aren't everything. But it often makes me wonder.
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De Luca will be drafted, just not in the first round.

If Honzek played for the Royals, I would imagine you would get similar production. Cream tends to rise to the top. And the Royals have a terrible lineup so it would be assumed he would get similar time on the top and 1st PP unit.

To your point, many imports do get moved down the lineup because of strong teams. Look at what happened to Segafredo last season. He got moved down the lineup from that super Seattle team, moved to another strong team in Winnipeg, and ultimately left. Hopefully he gets the ice time he needs to maybe become at least a decent Europe player.
 
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