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Prospect Info: C/RW Matthew Savoie, 9th Overall, 2022 NHL Draft - Traded to Moose Jaw 1/4/24

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Regardless of how his playing situation pans out, I sure don't expect Savoie to get much time at C unless injuries call for it. To me, sliding in for Olofsson is a great way to get at least half a season in and see where he's at. If we're going to guess/project line-ups with Savoie, it probably should be with him at RW.
 
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Sabresfansince1980 said:
Regardless of how his playing situation pans out, I sure don't expect Savoie to get much time at C unless injuries call for it. To me, sliding in for Olofsson is a great way to get at least half a season in and see where he's at. If we're going to guess/project line-ups with Savoie, it probably should be with him at RW.
Click to expand...
If he makes the roster, even if he doesn't slot in at Center I'd still like to see him get some face-off work in. He's been good at them in the WHL, and while that doesn't always project to being good at them in the NHL it's still something that needs to be adjusted to. Guys like Hischier, Haula, Benn, Carter and many many others took a couple of seasons of sub 50% to get to where they are now, might be a good idea to get him that experience so he can start making those adjustments early.
 
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Skinner-Thompson-Tuch
JJ-Cozens-Quinn
Greenway-Mitts-Savoie
XXX- Krebs- XXX

I wouldn't overcomplicate things. Savoie should slot in 3RW top 6 is set. Let Mitts try to drive the 3rd line as C if that fails Krebs will be 3C and mitts 3LW. Last two slots are plugs or girgs/Okposo.
 
Just reading through the last two pages, I am left wondering, are we trying to make the playoffs? Or develop Savoie? The number of proposals that dismantle what's working in order to accommodate is crazy talk. Nothing against Savoie, he is playing well, but he has not played a single pro game yet. This board loves to take prospects and project them straight to the top six.

Couple things to consider.

1. Mitts had a great comeback second half......at wing! Yes he played well at the end of the year for a few games in place of Thompson in the top line. Don't take those couple games and project Mitts to jump from third line winger to 1st line center. Thats not consistent with data.

2. Cozens is at a point in his career where he needs support as well. They hung him out to dry a bit last year asking him to not only have a breakout season as a second line center, but do it with two rookies on his wings. He fought thru, but I think it is important that they give him some better support this year so he can continue to grow as well. I can make argument that we are short a true 2nd line winger we need to go get.

3. JJP and Quinn both had issues last year, and will still need ALOT of development. They were freaking 20 years old, but you already crossed that bridge. Now you have to keep your focus on putting them in the best spots for their continued development, BEFORE you worry about Savoie. And KA is NOT sending one down. Also, please seperate them.

4. I would love TJ Compher, but as a third line center at a third line price. Read an article about how several UFA's are benefitting stats wise from playing up the lineup. TJ is one of them. Like putting Mitts inbetween Skinner and Tuch at a time when those two are playing all out and could have made Jost look like a #1 center. Don't pay for that.

5. Thompson was clearly impaired by injury. He had the best season a sabres has had in forever, as the #1 center. Lineups that have him on the second line wing, or third line center....are CRAZY TALK.

6. We have more good forward prospects than we have spots. Not that you couldn't cram them in, but you would be completely ignoring roles. Playoff teams need a full toolbox to win, and we are missing quite a few tools. Can't win with 12 screwdrivers. Trade some.

7. Greenway is the biggest unknown in the middle 6 for me. Is he a shooter?, a banger?, a power forward? As a shooter we play him on the right. A defensive banger the left.

8. I am trading Vic. No way he sees another Sabres game. If I sign Jost it is as a 13th forward. He had a good year filling in, but just doesn't bring enough to the table. Might let him go.

9. I see two holes on the Sabres playoff team at forward. Which is a good spot to put Savoie? Sounds like people want him in that third line center spot? Is that good for the team? For Mitts or JJP? We need a vet third line center.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Greenway
Mitts - Trade/RFA - JJP
Girgs - Krebs - Trade/RFA/Okposo/Amerk?

On a more experienced team you can make a spot for a rookie to get carried every year. We are not that. I just don't see a good spot for a rookie this year if we are going to go for the playoffs.
 
Bendium said:
Just reading through the last two pages, I am left wondering, are we trying to make the playoffs? Or develop Savoie? The number of proposals that dismantle what's working in order to accommodate is crazy talk. Nothing against Savoie, he is playing well, but he has not played a single pro game yet. This board loves to take prospects and project them straight to the top six.

Couple things to consider.

1. Mitts had a great comeback second half......at wing! Yes he played well at the end of the year for a few games in place of Thompson in the top line. Don't take those couple games and project Mitts to jump from third line winger to 1st line center. Thats not consistent with data.

2. Cozens is at a point in his career where he needs support as well. They hung him out to dry a bit last year asking him to not only have a breakout season as a second line center, but do it with two rookies on his wings. He fought thru, but I think it is important that they give him some better support this year so he can continue to grow as well. I can make argument that we are short a true 2nd line winger we need to go get.

3. JJP and Quinn both had issues last year, and will still need ALOT of development. They were freaking 20 years old, but you already crossed that bridge. Now you have to keep your focus on putting them in the best spots for their continued development, BEFORE you worry about Savoie. And KA is NOT sending one down. Also, please seperate them.

4. I would love TJ Compher, but as a third line center at a third line price. Read an article about how several UFA's are benefitting stats wise from playing up the lineup. TJ is one of them. Like putting Mitts inbetween Skinner and Tuch at a time when those two are playing all out and could have made Jost look like a #1 center. Don't pay for that.

5. Thompson was clearly impaired by injury. He had the best season a sabres has had in forever, as the #1 center. Lineups that have him on the second line wing, or third line center....are CRAZY TALK.

6. We have more good forward prospects than we have spots. Not that you couldn't cram them in, but you would be completely ignoring roles. Playoff teams need a full toolbox to win, and we are missing quite a few tools. Can't win with 12 screwdrivers. Trade some.

7. Greenway is the biggest unknown in the middle 6 for me. Is he a shooter?, a banger?, a power forward? As a shooter we play him on the right. A defensive banger the left.

8. I am trading Vic. No way he sees another Sabres game. If I sign Jost it is as a 13th forward. He had a good year filling in, but just doesn't bring enough to the table. Might let him go.

9. I see two holes on the Sabres playoff team at forward. Which is a good spot to put Savoie? Sounds like people want him in that third line center spot? Is that good for the team? For Mitts or JJP? We need a vet third line center.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Greenway
Mitts - Trade/RFA - JJP
Girgs - Krebs - Trade/RFA/Okposo/Amerk?

On a more experienced team you can make a spot for a rookie to get carried every year. We are not that. I just don't see a good spot for a rookie this year if we are going to go for the playoffs.
Click to expand...

If you put those 12 screwdrivers in a pillow case, it becomes a hammer.
 
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Bendium said:
Just reading through the last two pages, I am left wondering, are we trying to make the playoffs? Or develop Savoie? The number of proposals that dismantle what's working in order to accommodate is crazy talk. Nothing against Savoie, he is playing well, but he has not played a single pro game yet. This board loves to take prospects and project them straight to the top six.

Couple things to consider.

1. Mitts had a great comeback second half......at wing! Yes he played well at the end of the year for a few games in place of Thompson in the top line. Don't take those couple games and project Mitts to jump from third line winger to 1st line center. Thats not consistent with data.

2. Cozens is at a point in his career where he needs support as well. They hung him out to dry a bit last year asking him to not only have a breakout season as a second line center, but do it with two rookies on his wings. He fought thru, but I think it is important that they give him some better support this year so he can continue to grow as well. I can make argument that we are short a true 2nd line winger we need to go get.

3. JJP and Quinn both had issues last year, and will still need ALOT of development. They were freaking 20 years old, but you already crossed that bridge. Now you have to keep your focus on putting them in the best spots for their continued development, BEFORE you worry about Savoie. And KA is NOT sending one down. Also, please seperate them.

4. I would love TJ Compher, but as a third line center at a third line price. Read an article about how several UFA's are benefitting stats wise from playing up the lineup. TJ is one of them. Like putting Mitts inbetween Skinner and Tuch at a time when those two are playing all out and could have made Jost look like a #1 center. Don't pay for that.

5. Thompson was clearly impaired by injury. He had the best season a sabres has had in forever, as the #1 center. Lineups that have him on the second line wing, or third line center....are CRAZY TALK.

6. We have more good forward prospects than we have spots. Not that you couldn't cram them in, but you would be completely ignoring roles. Playoff teams need a full toolbox to win, and we are missing quite a few tools. Can't win with 12 screwdrivers. Trade some.

7. Greenway is the biggest unknown in the middle 6 for me. Is he a shooter?, a banger?, a power forward? As a shooter we play him on the right. A defensive banger the left.

8. I am trading Vic. No way he sees another Sabres game. If I sign Jost it is as a 13th forward. He had a good year filling in, but just doesn't bring enough to the table. Might let him go.

9. I see two holes on the Sabres playoff team at forward. Which is a good spot to put Savoie? Sounds like people want him in that third line center spot? Is that good for the team? For Mitts or JJP? We need a vet third line center.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Greenway
Mitts - Trade/RFA - JJP
Girgs - Krebs - Trade/RFA/Okposo/Amerk?

On a more experienced team you can make a spot for a rookie to get carried every year. We are not that. I just don't see a good spot for a rookie this year if we are going to go for the playoffs.
Click to expand...
At what point do you consider a player a vet? At what point do you consider them having enough experience? While many of the players are still young, you have a lot of them with 300+ pro games already. You also have several others like Mittelstadt, Joker, and Lyubushkin who are very close to 300. Even Cozens passed 200 pro games this season.

Despite being the youngest team in the NHL, they weren't the least experienced. Yes they were near the bottom, but so were teams like the Kings, Preds and Devils.

With the Devils specifically, if you compare them, the area that the Devils have significantly more experience is on their D. They have several vets on the backend with a lot of games played that Buffalo doesn't have. Jersey actually has a very similar average age among their forwards.

Does 1 more season make this team experienced enough to carry a rookie? Or do you rewind this again next offseason that they are still too young? Do they only bring in 1 rookie a year, and hopefully they can fit an Ostlund or a Neuchev onto the roster in 27-28? Or do they get this out of the way now so they are more experienced in 2 or 3 seasons?

I'm not disagreeing that you need a mix of vets and youth on the roster. I do disagree with the idea that they are too young to add another young player to the group, especially if that young player makes the team better, which is the assumption if he makes the team in camp. I'd actually argue the experience they need is on Defense.
 
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Bendium said:
Just reading through the last two pages, I am left wondering, are we trying to make the playoffs? Or develop Savoie? The number of proposals that dismantle what's working in order to accommodate is crazy talk. Nothing against Savoie, he is playing well, but he has not played a single pro game yet. This board loves to take prospects and project them straight to the top six.

Couple things to consider.

1. Mitts had a great comeback second half......at wing! Yes he played well at the end of the year for a few games in place of Thompson in the top line. Don't take those couple games and project Mitts to jump from third line winger to 1st line center. Thats not consistent with data.

2. Cozens is at a point in his career where he needs support as well. They hung him out to dry a bit last year asking him to not only have a breakout season as a second line center, but do it with two rookies on his wings. He fought thru, but I think it is important that they give him some better support this year so he can continue to grow as well. I can make argument that we are short a true 2nd line winger we need to go get.

3. JJP and Quinn both had issues last year, and will still need ALOT of development. They were freaking 20 years old, but you already crossed that bridge. Now you have to keep your focus on putting them in the best spots for their continued development, BEFORE you worry about Savoie. And KA is NOT sending one down. Also, please seperate them.

4. I would love TJ Compher, but as a third line center at a third line price. Read an article about how several UFA's are benefitting stats wise from playing up the lineup. TJ is one of them. Like putting Mitts inbetween Skinner and Tuch at a time when those two are playing all out and could have made Jost look like a #1 center. Don't pay for that.

5. Thompson was clearly impaired by injury. He had the best season a sabres has had in forever, as the #1 center. Lineups that have him on the second line wing, or third line center....are CRAZY TALK.

6. We have more good forward prospects than we have spots. Not that you couldn't cram them in, but you would be completely ignoring roles. Playoff teams need a full toolbox to win, and we are missing quite a few tools. Can't win with 12 screwdrivers. Trade some.

7. Greenway is the biggest unknown in the middle 6 for me. Is he a shooter?, a banger?, a power forward? As a shooter we play him on the right. A defensive banger the left.

8. I am trading Vic. No way he sees another Sabres game. If I sign Jost it is as a 13th forward. He had a good year filling in, but just doesn't bring enough to the table. Might let him go.

9. I see two holes on the Sabres playoff team at forward. Which is a good spot to put Savoie? Sounds like people want him in that third line center spot? Is that good for the team? For Mitts or JJP? We need a vet third line center.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Greenway
Mitts - Trade/RFA - JJP
Girgs - Krebs - Trade/RFA/Okposo/Amerk?

On a more experienced team you can make a spot for a rookie to get carried every year. We are not that. I just don't see a good spot for a rookie this year if we are going to go for the playoffs.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the time and effort here. I tend to look at the lineup as an evolution, especially with additions/subtractions and young player's growth.

Skinner/Tuch/Thompson/Girgs/VO/Jost/KO we kinda know what we have in those guys although I think Tuch has another gear but that's for another day. Everyone else is a little more fluid.

Mitts resurgence happened while he was on the wing and at center. It wouldn't make sense to acknowledge one while discounting the other. Looks like the consistent factor is playing with skilled linemates. I've also noted that teams kept their best defenders on Tage when he was moved to the 2nd line. Maybe that's a misconception but I believe that's what I saw. If nothing else, you're making the other team have to make a decision.

And Tage seems like a player that could make space on his own. We'll know better when he's healthy but we do know he wouldn't necessarily be losing out on ice time on that 2nd line. Say with Cozens and Quinn.

That leaves the 3rd line to JJP/Savoie/Greenway. JJP seems like the tough sell on any line but he showed some improvement and we all hope he puts on some muscle over the summer. I've also mentioned Mitts on that Savoie line if you move Thompson back to 1C and have the kid line again. I just wonder if either would be able to keep up with Savoie.

There's just a lot of question marks as to who takes a step forward and how far and who clicks with who so there's really nothing CRAZY at this point to speculate.
 
Bendium said:
Just reading through the last two pages, I am left wondering, are we trying to make the playoffs? Or develop Savoie? The number of proposals that dismantle what's working in order to accommodate is crazy talk. Nothing against Savoie, he is playing well, but he has not played a single pro game yet. This board loves to take prospects and project them straight to the top six.

Couple things to consider.

1. Mitts had a great comeback second half......at wing! Yes he played well at the end of the year for a few games in place of Thompson in the top line. Don't take those couple games and project Mitts to jump from third line winger to 1st line center. Thats not consistent with data.

2. Cozens is at a point in his career where he needs support as well. They hung him out to dry a bit last year asking him to not only have a breakout season as a second line center, but do it with two rookies on his wings. He fought thru, but I think it is important that they give him some better support this year so he can continue to grow as well. I can make argument that we are short a true 2nd line winger we need to go get.

3. JJP and Quinn both had issues last year, and will still need ALOT of development. They were freaking 20 years old, but you already crossed that bridge. Now you have to keep your focus on putting them in the best spots for their continued development, BEFORE you worry about Savoie. And KA is NOT sending one down. Also, please seperate them.

4. I would love TJ Compher, but as a third line center at a third line price. Read an article about how several UFA's are benefitting stats wise from playing up the lineup. TJ is one of them. Like putting Mitts inbetween Skinner and Tuch at a time when those two are playing all out and could have made Jost look like a #1 center. Don't pay for that.

5. Thompson was clearly impaired by injury. He had the best season a sabres has had in forever, as the #1 center. Lineups that have him on the second line wing, or third line center....are CRAZY TALK.

6. We have more good forward prospects than we have spots. Not that you couldn't cram them in, but you would be completely ignoring roles. Playoff teams need a full toolbox to win, and we are missing quite a few tools. Can't win with 12 screwdrivers. Trade some.

7. Greenway is the biggest unknown in the middle 6 for me. Is he a shooter?, a banger?, a power forward? As a shooter we play him on the right. A defensive banger the left.

8. I am trading Vic. No way he sees another Sabres game. If I sign Jost it is as a 13th forward. He had a good year filling in, but just doesn't bring enough to the table. Might let him go.

9. I see two holes on the Sabres playoff team at forward. Which is a good spot to put Savoie? Sounds like people want him in that third line center spot? Is that good for the team? For Mitts or JJP? We need a vet third line center.

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Quinn - Cozens - Greenway
Mitts - Trade/RFA - JJP
Girgs - Krebs - Trade/RFA/Okposo/Amerk?

On a more experienced team you can make a spot for a rookie to get carried every year. We are not that. I just don't see a good spot for a rookie this year if we are going to go for the playoffs.
Click to expand...
For me personally, I'm never a fan of using the NHL as your development level, especially early in players' careers. For the most part, your main roster should be the level of your organization structured and geared to be at its most competitive state with winning as a priority. It should be there to round out the edges of a young player at most. Of course there is always development going on, but the NHL shouldn't be launch point for players that you're trying to find roles/positions where the player fits best and for them to learn that position.

With that said, I understand that teams, when they don't have any pressure to be successful, feel the need to get players expedited development curves, where the bumps and bruises of that development process can be tolerated. When the team is not expected to be competitive, you may as well throw them in the deep end. I'm not a fan of it, but I get it. But I also don't think that this development process is a solid long term plan that should be handled the same for every single year. Buffalo decided to utilize their main roster with a bunch of young core guys and use it for development of these young players. Raising these young core players up like this, I feel should allow you as an organization to take your time with your next wave of young players.

IMO, they have a decent base of roster players and spots/roles taken up, especially roles and ice time where rookies/prospects may not get the favorable minutes that the current young players had this season to help give them confidence. There's no reason why you should be rushing players into roles on the main roster at this point for this organization.

With Savoie, I'd find anyway to get loan him over to Europe (if allowed) and get some professional games under his belt. If you can't use him in the AHL, that would be the next best spot. I'd rather him get that sort of ice time, than playing with his minutes, and getting him in and out of the lineup.
 
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OkimLom said:
For me personally, I'm never a fan of using the NHL as your development level, especially early in players' careers. For the most part, your main roster should be the level of your organization structured and geared to be at its most competitive state with winning as a priority. It should be there to round out the edges of a young player at most. Of course there is always development going on, but the NHL shouldn't be launch point for players that you're trying to find roles/positions where the player fits best and for them to learn that position.

With that said, I understand that teams, when they don't have any pressure to be successful, feel the need to get players expedited development curves, where the bumps and bruises of that development process can be tolerated. When the team is not expected to be competitive, you may as well throw them in the deep end. I'm not a fan of it, but I get it. But I also don't think that this development process is a solid long term plan that should be handled the same for every single year. Buffalo decided to utilize their main roster with a bunch of young core guys and use it for development of these young players. Raising these young core players up like this, I feel should allow you as an organization to take your time with your next wave of young players.

IMO, they have a decent base of roster players and spots/roles taken up, especially roles and ice time where rookies/prospects may not get the favorable minutes that the current young players had this season to help give them confidence. There's no reason why you should be rushing players into roles on the main roster at this point for this organization.

With Savoie, I'd find anyway to get loan him over to Europe (if allowed) and get some professional games under his belt. If you can't use him in the AHL, that would be the next best spot. I'd rather him get that sort of ice time, than playing with his minutes, and getting him in and out of the lineup.
Click to expand...
If Savoie is ready in camp, he poses no additional risk to the Sabres for winning, than any other rookie on any other roster. Every team has players that have to work through rookie bumps. I don't think that outlook changes with a very young roster overall, not at least with a top draft pick with the talent and drive that Savoie has. I would be stunned if he was a worse net negative than Olofsson.
 
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Matt Ress said:
I appreciate the time and effort here. I tend to look at the lineup as an evolution, especially with additions/subtractions and young player's growth.

Skinner/Tuch/Thompson/Girgs/VO/Jost/KO we kinda know what we have in those guys although I think Tuch has another gear but that's for another day. Everyone else is a little more fluid.

Mitts resurgence happened while he was on the wing and at center. It wouldn't make sense to acknowledge one while discounting the other. Looks like the consistent factor is playing with skilled linemates. I've also noted that teams kept their best defenders on Tage when he was moved to the 2nd line. Maybe that's a misconception but I believe that's what I saw. If nothing else, you're making the other team have to make a decision.

And Tage seems like a player that could make space on his own. We'll know better when he's healthy but we do know he wouldn't necessarily be losing out on ice time on that 2nd line. Say with Cozens and Quinn.

That leaves the 3rd line to JJP/Savoie/Greenway. JJP seems like the tough sell on any line but he showed some improvement and we all hope he puts on some muscle over the summer. I've also mentioned Mitts on that Savoie line if you move Thompson back to 1C and have the kid line again. I just wonder if either would be able to keep up with Savoie.

There's just a lot of question marks as to who takes a step forward and how far and who clicks with who so there's really nothing CRAZY at this point to speculate.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely curious on what makes more sense - keep Mitts with Skinner and Tuch which obviously works and allows Thompson to center another line - or keep Thompson there, because, honestly, Tage seems to play better with those two than on his own line. I know last season was not full Tage at the end because of injury, but we KNOW Tage is a beast with Skinner and Tuch, and I am liking the idea of a Mitts/Savoie/Greenway line more and more (with Mitts at center). But they can swap Thompson and Mitts in-game if they want to get better matchups or if something isn't working.
 
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Sabresfansince1980 said:
If Savoie is ready in camp, he poses no additional risk to the Sabres for winning, than any other rookie on any other roster. Every team has players that have to work through rookie bumps. I don't think that outlook changes with a very young roster overall, not at least with a top draft pick with the talent and drive that Savoie has. I would be stunned if he was a worse net negative than Olofsson.
Click to expand...
It all depends on what the team's standard is for "ready" is I guess. If we're using JJP as a basis for what the team considers ready, then sure he he has a chance to get on the roster. Personally for me, my standards for NHL ready are higher than that. Especially for a guy that hasn't played ANY professional games. My standard for where I want Savoie to be, to be gifted a roster spot RIGHT out of Junior, is at Marner's rookie season level. If he's playing/impacting the game at a level like Marner did, then I'm cool with giving him a spot.

If he's playing at a level, like JJP, then I'd rather not have him on the Sabres this season. Send him elsewhere.

My point is, the organization is at a point where they shouldn't feel the need to force players onto the roster unless they have shown that the organization is a extreme disadvantage of NOT having them in the lineup. If he's just going to be rotational player, and is often a player that comes out of the lineup at times of the year, then I'd rather have him develop somewhere else. I would think they are rushing his development unnecessarily.
 
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OkimLom said:
It all depends on what the team's standard is for "ready" is I guess. If we're using JJP as a basis for what the team considers ready, then sure he he has a chance to get on the roster. Personally for me, my standards for NHL ready are higher than that. Especially for a guy that hasn't played ANY professional games. My standard for where I want Savoie to be, to be gifted a roster spot RIGHT out of Junior, is at Marner's rookie season level. If he's playing/impacting the game at a level like Marner did, then I'm cool with giving him a spot.

If he's playing at a level, like JJP, then I'd rather not have him on the Sabres this season. Send him elsewhere.

My point is, the organization is at a point where they shouldn't feel the need to force players onto the roster unless they have shown that the organization is a extreme disadvantage of NOT having them in the lineup. If he's just going to be rotational player, and is often a player that comes out of the lineup at times of the year, then I'd rather have him develop somewhere else. I would think they are rushing his development unnecessarily.
Click to expand...

We can play Savoie 9 games and decide if he's ready or not. I'm good with that route. I think he is but if he's really outmatched then send him back to the WHL for one final year.
 
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