C/RW Maddox Fleming - Univ of Notre Dame (2022 undrafted)

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Maybe it isn’t really anyone’s fault and just simply a bad fit. This is the most important season of fleming’s young career and if a change is needed to get him rolling in the right direction then it’s a good thing NTDP accommodated him.

 

[Robert Ball]

That doesn't mean they ran him out of town. It means he was utilized as a bottom forward, which means less ice time, serving penalties, etc. He was clearly not in favor with the coaching staff but it's not like the NTDP had some vendetta against him. I don't blame Fleming for wanting a fresh start but there's no evidence that the NTDP had intended to run him out of town. NTDP contracts are one year at a time. If they wanted Fleming gone, they wouldn't have renewed his contract a few months ago.

I did provide evidence, just my opinion. I’ve never seen a bottom NTDP forward handled this way so that is my conclusion.

NTDP contracts are 2 years and are not renewed after first year. NTDP can terminate at any time for breach of contract or testing positive for banned substances.

 

[William H Bonney]

I did provide evidence, just my opinion. I’ve never seen a bottom NTDP forward handled this way so that is my conclusion.

NTDP contracts are 2 years and are not renewed after first year. NTDP can terminate at any time for breach of contract or testing positive for banned substances.

NTDP contracts used to be for 2 years but not anymore.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

1st point.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

4 wins in a row for Stampede

 

[Robert Ball]

NTDP contracts used to be for 2 years but not anymore.

A former NTDP coach and current U18 parent both say the contracts are 2 playing seasons. I thought this was common knowledge as it says 2 years right on their website. It’s possible the current U17s signed a one-year contract but seems highly unlikely.

 

[William H Bonney]

A former NTDP coach and current U18 parent both say the contracts are 2 playing seasons. I thought this was common knowledge as it says 2 years right on their website. It’s possible the current U17s signed a one-year contract but seems highly unlikely.

You can believe what you'd like.

 

[Luc Poitras]

A former NTDP coach and current U18 parent both say the contracts are 2 playing seasons. I thought this was common knowledge as it says 2 years right on their website. It’s possible the current U17s signed a one-year contract but seems highly unlikely.

You are correct.
The contract is 2 years. It's always been and has not changed.

 

[Bonin21]

4 wins in a row for Stampede

Can we get the shift by shift posts for him again?

 

[William H Bonney]

You are correct.
The contract is 2 years. It's always been and has not changed.

That is not true. It's possible they've reverted back to 2 year contracts but they were 1 year contracts for awhile.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

A decent start.

1st game 0+0
Next 3 games, 1 goal, 2 primary apples.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

His next game is this Friday.

 

[wings5]

I think one more full USHL season after this one would do Fleming well before he heads off to the U

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think one more full USHL season after this one would do Fleming well before he heads off to the U

Any reason why?

 

[wings5]

Any reason why?

He went awhile without being a top 6 player/ go to player on his team . He is supposed to be an offensive player so I think playing top 6 minutes and getting his confidence up for a full season in the USHL is better than jumping into NCAA and likely being placed on the bottom 6 of UND.

 

[Favin]

Fleming has been invited to BioSteel All-American game

Rosters here: 2022 BioSteel All-American Game Rosters Announced

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Fleming has been invited to BioSteel All-American game

Rosters here: 2022 BioSteel All-American Game Rosters Announced

Cool. Thanks.

 

[wings5]

2 goals and 8 pts in 16 games for Sioux Falls. I think it's safe to say NTDP must not have been completely at fault if at all. Fleming will need to step it up

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

2 goals and 8 pts in 16 games for Sioux Falls. I think it's safe to say NTDP must not have been completely at fault if at all. Fleming will need to step it up

I don’t agree. He’s undoubtedly more talented than some of the players that were in the lineup when he was being scratched. You see it with Sioux City also. There’s just no way he’s a scratch, if you are trying to play your best players to develop their careers. Could I be convinced that some players fit a traditional bottom line role better than him and he might’ve ended up struggling to fit into the top 6/9? I could, but that shouldn’t be the point of the NTDP.

Players with a chance to be fourth liners shouldn’t be playing above players with a chance to be top sixers. Unless there’s something else with his attitude, work ethic off ice, behavior, you can’t say that having average point totals in 16 games means they were right to have him in the role they did. Like any league, there’s a lot of variance in stats. He’s better than some draft eligible with better stats.

 

[William H Bonney]

2 goals and 8 pts in 16 games for Sioux Falls. I think it's safe to say NTDP must not have been completely at fault if at all. Fleming will need to step it up

He's too passive. As his peers have caught up skill wise, it's exacerbated that issue drastically.

 

[wings5]

I don’t agree. He’s undoubtedly more talented than some of the players that were in the lineup when he was being scratched. You see it with Sioux City also. There’s just no way he’s a scratch, if you are trying to play your best players to develop their careers. Could I be convinced that some players fit a traditional bottom line role better than him and he might’ve ended up struggling to fit into the top 6/9? I could, but that shouldn’t be the point of the NTDP.

Players with a chance to be fourth liners shouldn’t be playing above players with a chance to be top sixers. Unless there’s something else with his attitude, work ethic off ice, behavior, you can’t say that having average point totals in 16 games means they were right to have him in the role they did. Like any league, there’s a lot of variance in stats. He’s better than some draft eligible with better stats.

As with another early hyped prospect Shane Wright at some point can't keep giving players passes. Fleming was supposed to be the leader for the NTDP and he fell off, went to another USHL team still not that go to player. At the junior level if you are talented you will get a ton of playing time and chances to be productive unless your team is stacked. This is why I could easily buy him being buried on that talented NTDP team but I expected better with the team switch. Like with Wright I'm not saying the potential for them to perform better in the next couple years and in pros is gone, I'm just saying he needs to step it up.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

As with another early hyped prospect Shane Wright at some point can't keep giving players passes. Fleming was supposed to be the leader for the NTDP and he fell off, went to another USHL team still not that go to player. At the junior level if you are talented you will get a ton of playing time and chances to be productive unless your team is stacked. This is why I could easily buy him being buried on that talented NTDP team but I expected better with the team switch. Like with Wright I'm not saying the potential for them to perform better in the next couple years and in pros is gone, I'm just saying he needs to step it up.

Have you watched even one game he's played to be saying this?

He's 17 years old. You would think he's like a 24 year old that has played 100's of mediocre NHL games the way some talk about him. And he was injured at the beginning of last season, which put him behind the others in trying to earn a role. Never was given a real chance to play high in the lineup due to that.

I'm sorry, you can claim all these generalities, but unless you want to explain to me in detail why this stint of 16 games proves them right or at least explain why believe Hejduk, Lucius, Berard, even Spicer or Snuggerud are more talented and deserve bigger roles, it's a bunch of nonsense speculation based on nothing. Or if not, please explain to me what outside of that has led to such a bad reputation?

 

[wings5]

Have you watched even one game he's played to be saying this?

He's 17 years old. You would think he's like a 24 year old that has played 100's of mediocre NHL games the way some talk about him. And he was injured at the beginning of last season, which put him behind the others in trying to earn a role. Never was given a real chance to play high in the lineup due to that.

I'm sorry, you can claim all these generalities, but unless you want to explain to me in detail why this stint of 16 games proves them right or at least explain why believe Hejduk, Lucius, Berard, even Spicer or Snuggerud are more talented and deserve bigger roles, it's a bunch of nonsense speculation based on nothing. Or if not, please explain to me what outside of that has led to such a bad reputation?

I have seen him play, he was was not getting much ice time on that NTDP team . I'm just saying his hype beforehand was massive he was a projected high 1st rounder easily . It's still early into his stint with his new team so we'll see what happens. If he breaks out and an NHL team gets a steal later in the draft best case

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I have seen him play, he was was not getting much ice time on that NTDP team . I'm just saying his hype beforehand was massive he was a projected high 1st rounder easily . It's still early into his stint with his new team so we'll see what happens. If he breaks out and an NHL team gets a steal later in the draft best case

Not exactly what I asked, but I won't press it further.

In the interest of debate, these are the notes I took from the Fleming Sioux Falls games I watched. If anyone has any disagreement, I'd love to hear what it is. I don't view him so negatively. He's 17 years old with plenty of upside. He missed probably about a full season of minutes between the injuries and barely playing for the NTDP, so it may take a little time for him to get up to speed. Let's give him a few years before we say anyone was right or wrong about anything on Fleming.

I see some of the concerns, and they’ve been there for a few years now. Plays on the perimeter, tries to always force the E-W plays instead of making the safe play to not turn the puck over, very disinterested defensively, and he can slow the game down a little too much. Plays with very little intensity. But he is very talented with the puck, is an above-average skater with good enough size at 6’0. Can play center or wing. Right-shot. Great facilitator, but can also shoot it. If he doesn’t get picked round one because of some of these concerns, I see why. I think any later than round 2 is too low. If he hits his upside, he’s a top 6 forward. His flaws are also a lot easier to fix than most players.

 

[Favin]

I'm sorry, you can claim all these generalities, but unless you want to explain to me in detail why this stint of 16 games proves them right or at least explain why believe Hejduk, Lucius, Berard, even Spicer or Snuggerud are more talented and deserve bigger roles

It was joked that when Dougie Weight's son graduated the program, his long-retired father was still better than him, even as he saw many of his peers get drafted. Well, I gather the Hejduk's sometimes play in a pick-up game in Colorado together, and Marek still can't hold a candle to 45-year old Milan.

(sorry off topic...)