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C/RW Maddox Fleming - Univ of Notre Dame (2022 undrafted)

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I am disappointed of his production, but i suppose i should be happy about how he plays.
14 points in 14 games so far (4 vs USHL teams) is fine i guess, considering he is not getting absolute top minutes.
+ not playing with Howard, McGroarty, Gauthier, Nazar...

Had a super impressive, promising start thou (9 points in first 4 games), then quieted down, a lot.
- his 0.86 assists per game is the best of his team thou and his 1.00 ppg 8th best
8/12 in primary assists
 
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I’m a little disappointed with his production, as well.

But I’m not disappointed with his potential. He has so much potential, but is too passive. He could dominate games, but settles for showing some great flashes.

There’s a lot to like. He’s a great playmaker with high end skill, hockey sense, and skating. He’s also very useful defensively. He has easy high end center potential, but he doesn’t play as it just yet.

At the same time, he’s not getting good usage. He doesn’t play PP and has mostly been an extra forward or on lower lines since returning from injury.
 
On a 3 game goal streak and his current 0.67 assists per game (14 assists in 21 games) is still the best of his team.
Still not the kind of season i thought he'd have, but improving.
 
I think a thread like this is great. Following a prospect from an early age wherever he ends up can be very instructive.
 
BigHitter67 said:
Safe to say a diasspointing season for him so far? Well back of top point leaders on this team
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He's not been disappointing. He's unlucky in that he was injured to start the season when roles were being solidified, and then when he came back the coach didn't want to mess with the pecking order that much.

He's absolutely one of the best forward prospects on the team. If the expectation was that he'd dominate, he hasn't done that, but I don't see his season as disappointing. I like his game. He has big potential.
 
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I think Maddox should find the nearest exit and leave the US national team development program,
sign a contract with the Portland Winterhawks and play in the WHL his draft season.
 
I think he should leave the National Development program and go to Portland and play for the Winterhawks.

I don't think this current path is the right fit for his development, they are not seeing Maddox's true potential.
Portland Winterhawks is a top notch major junior franchise and have a really good track record for developing top prospects.

I'd hate to see a top prospect. top talent get wasted way.
 
GeorgeLeafer12 said:
I think he should leave the National Development program and go to Portland and play for the Winterhawks.

I don't think this current path is the right fit for his development, they are not seeing Maddox's true potential.
Portland Winterhawks is a top notch major junior franchise and have a really good track record for developing top prospects.

I'd hate to see a top prospect. top talent get wasted way.
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The USNTDP has a great track record of developing prospects. U17 was stacked and he still put up decent numbers. There have been a lot of players who have put up similar numbers (or worse numbers) that have gone on to be stars from the program.

If anything, Portland has a track record of highly regarded prospects underachieving. If he is good enough, he’ll get the ice time and he’ll become a good nhl player. I don’t think leaving the national team would be a good idea.
 
Still had better numbers than Farabee, Matt and Brady Tkachuk, when they were on the U17s.
 
GeorgeLeafer12 said:
I think he should leave the National Development program and go to Portland and play for the Winterhawks.

I don't think this current path is the right fit for his development, they are not seeing Maddox's true potential.
Portland Winterhawks is a top notch major junior franchise and have a really good track record for developing top prospects.

I'd hate to see a top prospect. top talent get wasted way.
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Minnesotans heading to the WHL rarely turn out as expected.
 
Last season he was injured at the start of the season and that had him behind others when he came back. He should have a better chance this season to see more playing time.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Most of that is due to his usage. He’s a good prospect. On a team with a lot of very good offensive forwards, they can’t all get great usage. Fleming seems to be the one the coaching staff doesn’t like that much.
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I disagree with that a bit. He doesn’t really have game changing intangibles. He’s a quick playmaking winger, but I don’t think he really has the ability to drive play or finish opportunities. It’s not like his defensive game is above average either.

He should for sure have more points than he does, I think he’s far better than Snuggerud for example who has 11 points. But in my eyes, Fleming is still not a 1st round prospect.
 
MichaelFarrell said:
I disagree with that a bit. He doesn’t really have game changing intangibles. He’s a quick playmaking winger, but I don’t think he really has the ability to drive play or finish opportunities. It’s not like his defensive game is above average either.

He should for sure have more points than he does, I think he’s far better than Snuggerud for example who has 11 points. But in my eyes, Fleming is still not a 1st round prospect.
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I think he’s a center. I don’t think this coaching staff has made good decisions about who should play center and winger, considering they have a lot of natural centers.

He has good puck skills, good playmaking, and good skating as a natural center. He’s not undersized either and his defensive game isn’t bad. I think that’s a good base to build off of. He may not become an NHL star, but he’s more talented than his usage suggests.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
I think he’s a center. I don’t think this coaching staff has made good decisions about who should play center and winger, considering they have a lot of natural centers.

He has good puck skills, good playmaking, and good skating as a natural center. He’s not undersized either and his defensive game isn’t bad. I think that’s a good base to build off of. He may not become an NHL star, but he’s more talented than his usage suggests.
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Would you provide your own personal ranking (not prediction of draft order) of the forwards and defensemen on this year’s U18s? I have to say I am very surprised by who and how the team has scored this year.
 
Dominance said:
Would you provide your own personal ranking (not prediction of draft order) of the forwards and defensemen on this year’s U18s? I have to say I am very surprised by who and how the team has scored this year.
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I haven't seen any games yet this season, so I'm looking at boxscores, like everyone else for now.

From what I saw last season.

Forwards:

I think the two best long-term prospects are Charlie Stramel and Rutger McGroarty. Stramel is 2023 draft eligible, so maybe he's not viewed in the same discussion. McGroarty has the best scoring upside on the team, in my opinion. Elite shot/passing/hockey sense combination. He also has good size and he's not bad defensively. His skating isn't great, but I think it's good enough. The other issue is whether he will play center. He's a natural center, but hasn't played any center this year or last year. Stramel is one of these elite athletes. Like 6'3 200+ with great skating. Also a very good puck handler and drives to the net hard. He can score, his hockey sense is starting to develop, and he's starting to play more center. His trajectory may be the best of all these players. This is a clear top 10 pick profile. I'd be really surprised if he's any lower than that.

I would say the next range is Cooley and Gauthier. Middle of the first types. I'm just not as high on Cooley as the experts. He's like 5'10 and not a blazing skater. As I've said before, unfortunately reminds me a lot of Jake Wise in that he's going to be injury prone because of how he tries to play. I like his offense, like his defense, don't really see elite potential. Gauthier's not too flashy, but good size, skates well, good shot, and has some offensive upside. He'll be a middle six/second line center in the NHL.

Then you get to guys like Nazar, Fleming, and Kaplan. I would say these guys are in the latter third of the first round. Nazar has great puck skills. He's gotten bigger, so I wouldn't say he's undersized anymore. His skating is good, not great. He's more Clayton Keller than Patrick Kane in that I wouldn't expect a superstar winger, but I think there's clear top 6 scoring upside. Fleming hasn't had the production and some of that is on him. His tools are good, but maybe not as elite as everyone thought a few years ago. I still see some good tools and some upside. Kaplan is an isolation scoring winger with good size and skating. Great scoring potential and numbers. Hockey sense isn't the best, but its not terrible.

Howard, Snuggerud, Spicer, and Berard are all at least round 2-4 guys. I think a lot of people will have Howard as a round 1 guy. I don't see it. I'd say round 2, but I could be wrong. Others will have Lucius as a round 1-2 guy. I don't see him as any better than mid-rounds, and maybe not even that, but thats another instance where I could be wrong. Snuggerud is an excellent defensive forward with some scoring ability. I think he has to be round 2. Spicer is a swiss army knife type of forward. Some speed, a lot of energy, some skill. Can play center, wing, good PK'er. Reminds me of Trevor Janicke. I'd pick him higher than Berard, but probably round 3 at best. Berard could certainly be a fourth line winger in the NHL. Gritty winger with good size and enough skill and skating ability. 3rd or 4th round pick.

Defense:

I would say Chesley is probably the best of the defensemen. Top 5 caliber of defenseman. Maybe he gets pushed to top 10 if he has a bad season, but projects as a top pairing defenseman with 1D upside. I think Casey and Hutson are mid first caliber of picks. Casey just has such great puck poise, playmaking, and skating. His defense is only average and he's not the biggest, but the puck moving and offense will have him play in an NHL top 4. He could be top pair. If Hutson was a few inches taller, he'd be right there with Chesley. I like his whole game. I think he has a lot of very good tools, but he's 5'8. How effective can a 5'8 defenseman be? I think he's good enough that he could be Spurgeon, but there's certainly some risk to his profile, which is why I say middle of the first.

Hunter Brzuctewicz is probably also like a middle first round pick, but thats for 2023. I don't find him to be a big standout in any area, but a good all-around defenseman. All the other defenseman are a similar range for me, somewhere from rounds 2-4. Duke is an excellent skater and competes very hard defensively, but an undersized defenseman with little offense is a tough profile. I'd say round 2, but if it's later I understand why. Powell is a very boring type of defenseman, but he's not a bad all-around defenseman and I think he gets drafted probably rounds 3 or 4. Leddy and Muir the standard defensive defensemen. I like Leddy a little more than Muir. I could see Leddy go as high as round 2. Muir is probably round 4, but I do think he's a little underrated and has real NHL upside.

Goalies:

I think Silverstein is pretty good. I'm not sure he's going to be the best goalie in the draft and he's only 6'0, but aside from that, I like his game. Very athletic, battles well, pretty well positioned. Last season I thought he lost his concentration too often, and let in some bad goals, which is very correctable for a young goalie. The tools are all there, aside from his size. Somewhere in the round 2-4 range.
 
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
I haven't seen any games yet this season, so I'm looking at boxscores, like everyone else for now.

From what I saw last season.

Forwards:

I think the two best long-term prospects are Charlie Stramel and Rutger McGroarty. Stramel is 2023 draft eligible, so maybe he's not viewed in the same discussion. McGroarty has the best scoring upside on the team, in my opinion. Elite shot/passing/hockey sense combination. He also has good size and he's not bad defensively. His skating isn't great, but I think it's good enough. The other issue is whether he will play center. He's a natural center, but hasn't played any center this year or last year. Stramel is one of these elite athletes. Like 6'3 200+ with great skating. Also a very good puck handler and drives to the net hard. He can score, his hockey sense is starting to develop, and he's starting to play more center. His trajectory may be the best of all these players. This is a clear top 10 pick profile. I'd be really surprised if he's any lower than that.

I would say the next range is Cooley and Gauthier. Middle of the first types. I'm just not as high on Cooley as the experts. He's like 5'10 and not a blazing skater. As I've said before, unfortunately reminds me a lot of Jake Wise in that he's going to be injury prone because of how he tries to play. I like his offense, like his defense, don't really see elite potential. Gauthier's not too flashy, but good size, skates well, good shot, and has some offensive upside. He'll be a middle six/second line center in the NHL.

Then you get to guys like Nazar, Fleming, and Kaplan. I would say these guys are in the latter third of the first round. Nazar has great puck skills. He's gotten bigger, so I wouldn't say he's undersized anymore. His skating is good, not great. He's more Clayton Keller than Patrick Kane in that I wouldn't expect a superstar winger, but I think there's clear top 6 scoring upside. Fleming hasn't had the production and some of that is on him. His tools are good, but maybe not as elite as everyone thought a few years ago. I still see some good tools and some upside. Kaplan is an isolation scoring winger with good size and skating. Great scoring potential and numbers. Hockey sense isn't the best, but its not terrible.

Howard, Snuggerud, Spicer, and Berard are all at least round 2-4 guys. I think a lot of people will have Howard as a round 1 guy. I don't see it. I'd say round 2, but I could be wrong. Others will have Lucius as a round 1-2 guy. I don't see him as any better than mid-rounds, and maybe not even that, but thats another instance where I could be wrong. Snuggerud is an excellent defensive forward with some scoring ability. I think he has to be round 2. Spicer is a swiss army knife type of forward. Some speed, a lot of energy, some skill. Can play center, wing, good PK'er. Reminds me of Trevor Janicke. I'd pick him higher than Berard, but probably round 3 at best. Berard could certainly be a fourth line winger in the NHL. Gritty winger with good size and enough skill and skating ability. 3rd or 4th round pick.

Defense:

I would say Chesley is probably the best of the defensemen. Top 5 caliber of defenseman. Maybe he gets pushed to top 10 if he has a bad season, but projects as a top pairing defenseman with 1D upside. I think Casey and Hutson are mid first caliber of picks. Casey just has such great puck poise, playmaking, and skating. His defense is only average and he's not the biggest, but the puck moving and offense will have him play in an NHL top 4. He could be top pair. If Hutson was a few inches taller, he'd be right there with Chesley. I like his whole game. I think he has a lot of very good tools, but he's 5'8. How effective can a 5'8 defenseman be? I think he's good enough that he could be Spurgeon, but there's certainly some risk to his profile, which is why I say middle of the first.

Hunter Brzuctewicz is probably also like a middle first round pick, but thats for 2023. I don't find him to be a big standout in any area, but a good all-around defenseman. All the other defenseman are a similar range for me, somewhere from rounds 2-4. Duke is an excellent skater and competes very hard defensively, but an undersized defenseman with little offense is a tough profile. I'd say round 2, but if it's later I understand why. Powell is a very boring type of defenseman, but he's not a bad all-around defenseman and I think he gets drafted probably rounds 3 or 4. Leddy and Muir the standard defensive defensemen. I like Leddy a little more than Muir. I could see Leddy go as high as round 2. Muir is probably round 4, but I do think he's a little underrated and has real NHL upside.

Goalies:

I think Silverstein is pretty good. I'm not sure he's going to be the best goalie in the draft and he's only 6'0, but aside from that, I like his game. Very athletic, battles well, pretty well positioned. Last season I thought he lost his concentration too often, and let in some bad goals, which is very correctable for a young goalie. The tools are all there, aside from his size. Somewhere in the round 2-4 range.
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Thank you!
 
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