C Nicolas Roy (2015, 96th, CAR; traded to VGK)

[East Hockey]

Except these are University students, they are grade 10-12 students.

16 & 17 year olds are Grade 11-12. All the 18, 19, and 20s are university age with some exceptions for late birthdays.

Not to mention some 17 year olds are able to skip ahead and get into University. When I was in high school playing Midget Hockey, we had 2 guys in University on our team. One was from Quebec, the other from Ontario.

 

[hab 4ever]

Some context from about 10 days ago

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/chicoutimi-optimistic-in-roys-draft-year/

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Roy has no intensity at all. He just relies on his talent but it isn't enough.

 

[BondraTime]

16 & 17 year olds are Grade 11-12. All the 18, 19, and 20s are university age with some exceptions for late birthdays.

Not to mention some 17 year olds are able to skip ahead and get into University. When I was in high school playing Midget Hockey, we had 2 guys in University on our team. One was from Quebec, the other from Ontario.

You don't get drafted at 18-19-20, that whole point is unrelated to your argument.

 

[East Hockey]

You don't get drafted at 18-19-20, that whole point is unrelated to your argument.

Well the point was that anyone can use a computer to get a better education these days so maybe you just missed the point and having a different argument.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Well the point was that anyone can use a computer to get a better education these days so maybe you just missed the point and having a different argument.

You point isn't very solid. School in class is still better education than doing it through a computer. Being from a teachers family, I understand why it was so important to them. It's not like he didn't want to go for money, Chicoutimi is a smaller market than CB, he just wanted to go through the normal path of the Quebec school system.

I know Charles-David Beaudoin is doing the same in Drummondville. Callum Booth is also a full time student in a Quebec Cegep. Marc-Antoine Carrier went to school full time when he was playing for Quebec so that he could be accepted in medicine after his junior career.

QMJHL already gets much bad reputation when talking about education. When a kid actually wants to study and follow a regular curriculum, we shouldn't despise them but help them get what they want.

MacKinnon and Drouin did the same for reasons other than education but nobody talked about character issues.

 

[East Hockey]

You point isn't very solid. School in class is still better education than doing it through a computer. Being from a teachers family, I understand why it was so important to them. It's not like he didn't want to go for money, Chicoutimi is a smaller market than CB, he just wanted to go through the normal path of the Quebec school system.

I know Charles-David Beaudoin is doing the same in Drummondville. Callum Booth is also a full time student in a Quebec Cegep. Marc-Antoine Carrier went to school full time when he was playing for Quebec so that he could be accepted in medicine after his junior career.

QMJHL already gets much bad reputation when talking about education. When a kid actually wants to study and follow a regular curriculum, we shouldn't despise them but help them get what they want.

MacKinnon and Drouin did the same for reasons other than education but nobody talked about character issues.

I don't think I said Roy has character issues?

Still not sure what you think happens to a QC kid when he gets drafted by an Atlantic Canadian team. You understand they don't drop out of school and play hockey full-time, right? The teams outside of Quebec still have education coordinators that work full time to ensure the kids get an education while playing hockey and CB has been one of the top teams in the entire QMJHL (including QC teams) since joining the league.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

I don't think I said Roy has character issues?

Still not sure what you think happens to a QC kid when he gets drafted by an Atlantic Canadian team. You understand they don't drop out of school and play hockey full-time, right? The teams outside of Quebec still have education coordinators that work full time to ensure the kids get an education while playing hockey and CB has been one of the top teams in the entire QMJHL (including QC teams) since joining the league.

I didn't mention you said it, someone else mentionned it.

I know a QC kid can study and succeed in the Maritimes. It's just that they can't follow the normal path of the QC school system. Many of them just switch to the school system of Nova Scotia or New Brunswick and it's perfectly fine. I just don't think education should be an issue.

At the end of the day, both parties got what they wanted.

The real problem is kids not wanting to go to small markets, not those who wants to go elsewhere for education purpose.

 

[BondraTime]

I don't think I said Roy has character issues?

Still not sure what you think happens to a QC kid when he gets drafted by an Atlantic Canadian team. You understand they don't drop out of school and play hockey full-time, right? The teams outside of Quebec still have education coordinators that work full time to ensure the kids get an education while playing hockey and CB has been one of the top teams in the entire QMJHL (including QC teams) since joining the league.

They attend the local high schools in Atlantic Canada, and have "Tutors" when on the road. I know the ins and outs of that pretty well. These schools are predominantly English, and Vise Versa for Quebec.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I honestly can't believe people buy the education excuse.

It's 2014. You can get a University Degree online I'm sure the QMJHL Education Coordinators have dealt with french players in the Maritimes before.

Tell that to a French school teacher who wants his kid to finish his education in his main language.

I honestly can't believe people think 16yr old hockey players shouldn't have any options in terms of where they want to play.

Teams like Cape Breton also benefit from this stance from Maritimers so it's not simply a slight against any franchise when it happens.

I wouldn't let my 16yr old play for any CHL team that young without a full 4 year college scholarship commitment and i'd want him to be somewhat close to home. I fail to see the benefit in giving up the NCAA scholarship when at minimum your draft year isn't until your 2nd year.

I know lots of local kids who played in the Q, some locally and some not, and they all had different reasons for wanting/not wanting to play in certain places. Considering the meat market the league acts like you should hope parents put a lot of rules in place in terms of where their kids will play.

 

[Jack Bauer]

I don't think I said Roy has character issues?

Still not sure what you think happens to a QC kid when he gets drafted by an Atlantic Canadian team. You understand they don't drop out of school and play hockey full-time, right? The teams outside of Quebec still have education coordinators that work full time to ensure the kids get an education while playing hockey and CB has been one of the top teams in the entire QMJHL (including QC teams) since joining the league.

Yeah but the school systems are much different. Quebec has CEGEP which does not exist in the Maritimes.

I don't knock any player wanting to be educated close to home in their native language. There's lots of talented hockey players to find out there for these teams.

CB drafted him to reap the rewards and so far is more then pleased with the outcome.

 

[East Hockey]

Tell that to a French school teacher who wants his kid to finish his education in his main language.

I honestly can't believe people think 16yr old hockey players shouldn't have any options in terms of where they want to play.

Teams like Cape Breton also benefit from this stance from Maritimers so it's not simply a slight against any franchise when it happens.

I wouldn't let my 16yr old play for any CHL team that young without a full 4 year college scholarship commitment and i'd want him to be somewhat close to home. I fail to see the benefit in giving up the NCAA scholarship when at minimum your draft year isn't until your 2nd year.

I know lots of local kids who played in the Q, some locally and some not, and they all had different reasons for wanting/not wanting to play in certain places. Considering the meat market the league acts like you should hope parents put a lot of rules in place in terms of where their kids will play.

You're in Cape Breton and don't know that there's a fully functioning french school within a 2 minute drive of the rink?

16 year old hockey players have plenty of options in terms of where they want to play. If you don't like where you were drafted then you can stay in Midget or play Jr. A at home. You can also go to a prep school or go to the states to play junior hockey before heading to an NCAA program if you're good enough.

The funny thing is you want a player like Nicolas Roy to be able to hand pick what QMJHL team he plays for but a kid picked in the 8th round wouldn't be able to pull that same crap. He'd go to whatever teams camp that drafted him and try to make the team or stay home. He'd probably be laughed at if he demanded a trade.

Yeah but the school systems are much different. Quebec has CEGEP which does not exist in the Maritimes.

I don't knock any player wanting to be educated close to home in their native language. There's lots of talented hockey players to find out there for these teams.

CB drafted him to reap the rewards and so far is more then pleased with the outcome.

No doubt CB was able to use the situation to their advantage but it doesn't excuse the original garbage.

Again there's a school in his native language that you can literally see from the rink.


Seems like you'd be the type of parent that would be a problem for a QMJHL team so I doubt we'll agree. You say what you'd do if your kid was in that position like keep him close to home & make education decisions for him but you don't even mention asking your kid what he wants to do. He might want to get as far away from you & his friends as possible and sees his future as being a hockey player or a plumber so education isn't high on his priority list

 

[Jack Bauer]

You're in Cape Breton and don't know that there's a fully functioning french school within a 2 minute drive of the rink?

16 year old hockey players have plenty of options in terms of where they want to play. If you don't like where you were drafted then you can stay in Midget or play Jr. A at home.

The funny thing is you want a player like Nicolas Roy to be able to hand pick what QMJHL team he plays for but a kid picked in the 8th round wouldn't be able to pull that same crap. He'd go to whatever teams camp that drafted him and try to make the team or stay home. He'd probably be laughed at if he demanded a trade.



No doubt CB was able to use the situation to their advantage but it doesn't excuse the original garbage.

Again there's a school in his native language that you can literally see from the rink.


Seems like you'd be the type of parent that would be a problem for a QMJHL team so I doubt we'll agree. You say what you'd do if your kid was in that position like keep him close to home & make education decisions for him but you don't even mention asking your kid what he wants to do. He might want to get as far away from you & his friends as possible and sees his future as being a hockey player or a plumber so education isn't high on his priority list

The French school is there but it's not the same school system as in Quebec. It's not ONLY about the language.

All the high end kids go through this stuff. James Sheppard was no different only we were a place he would report to. Dean Ouellet and JC Sawyer were the same thing. All great kids from top notch families but wouldn't simply report to any team.

You're naive if you don't think this stuff is relevant. Or you're not able to put yourself in the shoes of a parent of a high end hockey player.

 

[BondraTime]

You're in Cape Breton and don't know that there's a fully functioning french school within a 2 minute drive of the rink?

16 year old hockey players have plenty of options in terms of where they want to play. If you don't like where you were drafted then you can stay in Midget or play Jr. A at home. You can also go to a prep school or go to the states to play junior hockey before heading to an NCAA program if you're good enough.

The funny thing is you want a player like Nicolas Roy to be able to hand pick what QMJHL team he plays for but a kid picked in the 8th round wouldn't be able to pull that same crap. He'd go to whatever teams camp that drafted him and try to make the team or stay home. He'd probably be laughed at if he demanded a trade.



No doubt CB was able to use the situation to their advantage but it doesn't excuse the original garbage.

Again there's a school in his native language that you can literally see from the rink.


Seems like you'd be the type of parent that would be a problem for a QMJHL team so I doubt we'll agree. You say what you'd do if your kid was in that position like keep him close to home & make education decisions for him but you don't even mention asking your kid what he wants to do. He might want to get as far away from you & his friends as possible and sees his future as being a hockey player or a plumber so education isn't high on his priority list

He certainly could have played in Midget. If he wasn't traded he likely would have played elsewhere. It's going to happen. This isn't grown men, this is children. From your argument, I am taking away that you don't really have a grasp, or know first hand what it is like for some of these kids.

Obviously the better kids are going to have more pull than a kid drafted in the 8th round, that's just common sense.

Nobody says anything about Huberdeau, he did the same thing, and then went to a team outside of Quebec. It wasn't for schooling, it was for different reasons, which there are many.

These kids are staying a few years playing in a city. They are allowed to tell a team the will not report and would prefer to play somewhere else, it happens all the time. Some for school, some for personal reasons. It isn't an ideal situation, but it is going to happen, and will keep happening.

It would be different if it were grown men who can easily cope with large changes in their life. For children, it is not as easy, and can lead to very bad outcomes in some cases.

I know first hand, on several accounts, that it can be difficult, and will happen. Especially in the QMJHL.

 

[Jack Bauer]

He certainly could have played in Midget. If he wasn't traded he likely would have played elsewhere. It's going to happen. This isn't grown men, this is children. From your argument, I am taking away that you don't really have a grasp, or know first hand what it is like for some of these kids.

Obviously the better kids are going to have more pull than a kid drafted in the 8th round, that's just common sense.

Nobody says anything about Huberdeau, he did the same thing, and then went to a team outside of Quebec. It wasn't for schooling, it was for different reasons, which there are many.

These kids are staying a few years playing in a city. They are allowed to tell a team the will not report and would prefer to play somewhere else, it happens all the time. Some for school, some for personal reasons. It isn't an ideal situation, but it is going to happen, and will keep happening.

It would be different if it were grown men who can easily cope with large changes in their life. For children, it is not as easy, and can lead to very bad outcomes in some cases.

I know first hand, on several accounts, that it can be difficult, and will happen. Especially in the QMJHL.

Good to see some get it.

These kids have at max a 5 year shelf life as a QMJHL player. Seeing the list of trades that happen every June and every January should tell any parent that nailing down stability for their kid should be a top priority.

We acquired Loik Leveille for Roy and had to talk him into reporting. Kid is a dynamite young defenceman who had been traded twice in 18 months and didn't want to spend another 6 months here only to be dealt away. Hard to argue with a player like that. Trying to impress scouts and go to school and you're being uprooted to a new team in a new city in a new province potentially....not easy for a 16 or 17yr old kid.

 

[East Hockey]

Obviously the better kids are going to have more pull than a kid drafted in the 8th round, that's just common sense.

So it's only fair for kids to be able to demand trades based on 'education' unless they're not a first round pick. If you're a later pick that might be a late bloomer or simply underrated that actually has to earn his stripes in the league, you have to give up hockey if you don't want to move for 'education' reasons

It's entitlement.

I love how you keep bringing up other players as if it's my responsibility to call out every single one of them. I don't think it's right whether it's a kid now, yesterday, 5 years ago, QCer, NSer, PEIer, NLer, NBer.

Get over it.

 

[Jack Bauer]

So it's only fair for kids to be able to demand trades based on 'education' unless they're not a first round pick. If you're a later pick that might be a late bloomer or simply underrated that actually has to earn his stripes in the league, you have to give up hockey if you don't want to move for 'education' reasons

It's entitlement.

I love how you keep bringing up other players as if it's my responsibility to call out every single one of them. I don't think it's right whether it's a kid now, yesterday, 5 years ago, QCer, NSer, PEIer, NLer, NBer.

Get over it.

It's fair to the kids who have that leverage, yes. The QMJHL is but 1 option they have for playing hockey. They can play prep school, midget hockey, USHL, Jr A and all will prepare them for the NCAA and future pro opportunities. But playing 1 Q game throws some of those options away so of course the Sheppard's, MacKinnon's, Huberdeau's and Duclair's get more perks in exchange for reporting. The 8th rounders ending up on par with some of them at 18/19 proves the draft still works as intended as outside of the top handful of picks the rest don't have the leverage and come for the opportunity to play hockey for a living.

The draft still works as a Cape Breton and Baie-Comeau have proven as despite having to trade a #1 pick they both recieved equal value and then some to be able to field a solid team within 2-3 years of moving the player.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

On the contrary, it's easier for an 8th round pick to demand a trade because he's not viewed as a top end player and thus, not important enough for the team's future. Also, teams have already talked to these players and know if they will report or not so they take another similar player in the 8th round if they know the one they wanted won't report. QMJHL teams tend to accomodate those players instead of telling them to go play in another league.

As for the french school in CB, like Jake Bauer said, it's about the school system, not only the language. It would have been the same with every Maritimes team.

We want to see these kids succeed on and off the ice. I don't think it's a good idea to force them to stay in Midget or in Jr A instead of helping them with their education. It's not like he asked for a big education package, he just wanted to be able to go to CEGEP!

 

[Jack Bauer]

On the contrary, it's easier for an 8th round pick to demand a trade because he's not viewed as a top end player and thus, not important enough for the team's future. Also, teams have already talked to these players and know if they will report or not so they take another similar player in the 8th round if they know the one they wanted won't report. QMJHL teams tend to accomodate those players instead of telling them to go play in another league.

As for the french school in CB, like Jake Bauer said, it's about the school system, not only the language. It would have been the same with every Maritimes team.

We want to see these kids succeed on and off the ice. I don't think it's a good idea to force them to stay in Midget or in Jr A instead of helping them with their education. It's not like he asked for a big education package, he just wanted to be able to go to CEGEP!

Exactly. If it was only about a package he would have been here.

His dad drew a line in the sand that CB couldn't match without moving the Franchise to the province of Quebec. And that's his right to do so as a parent of a high end hockey player who has many options for the next few years with the Q being just 1 of those options.

 

[East Hockey]

You could take CEGEP via distance education before Nicolas Roy was even born but I guess it's irrelevant lol

 

[SergeConstantin74]

In a way, Baie-Comeau had more rights to be angry about MacKinnon because the dad admitted it was about the team's bad reputation at the time. He was kind of right but at the same time, there was a big overhaul in the organisation. In 2011, the Baie-Comeau Drakkar had nothing to do with the team from the movie that gave them the bad reputation. I'm not saying MacKinnon was handled badly, it was his right not wanting to show up to BC.

Nicolas Roy actually showed up at the draft and it was clear way before what was his intention.

There are worst stories than that, like in the cases of Lecavalier or Esposito.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

You could take CEGEP via distance education before Nicolas Roy was even born but I guess it's irrelevant lol

You can take certain classes via distance but not everything and you can't have a full time schedule. Many QC overagers have been moved from Maritimes to QC teams in order to complete their CEGEP before entering university the year after.

I guess I'll give you the benefit of ignorance because now you just sound silly.

There's just no way he could have followed the regular QC school system in CB.

 

[euro]

I saw him twice this year so far ...one pre season game in drumondville where he was invisible other than on 1 power play where he showed flash of good thing and one game in chicoutimi last month and he was awful. I seen him vs Québec on tvasport friday and still was not impressive.he is slow and soft ,looks not confident but He has size and could improved but not sold on him so far

 

[East Hockey]

You enable entitlement and I'm ignorant

I'll stick with my guy Connor McDavid
"It's just wrong to be honest. You put yourself ahead of the game and it can never be like that. To 'select' where you're going to go, it's not fair. There's a draft for a reason. The team picks the best available player and for the player to say 'I don't want to go there, I only want to go there' it's not right."

 

[BondraTime]

So it's only fair for kids to be able to demand trades based on 'education' unless they're not a first round pick. If you're a later pick that might be a late bloomer or simply underrated that actually has to earn his stripes in the league, you have to give up hockey if you don't want to move for 'education' reasons

It's entitlement.

I love how you keep bringing up other players as if it's my responsibility to call out every single one of them. I don't think it's right whether it's a kid now, yesterday, 5 years ago, QCer, NSer, PEIer, NLer, NBer.

Get over it.

I'm not bringing up others to say it's your responsibility.

You don't think it's right. That's fine, it's your opinion, and a valid one at that.

It's not how things happen though, and it never will be, so might as well accept that.

Kids drafted later don't have to play if they don't want to. If they were given an opportunity elsewhere they would take it. The thing is, the guys drafted later don't get the opportunities the early guys get.