C Mitchell Marner - London Knights, OHL (2015 Draft)

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maketrades

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May 30, 2014
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Why doesn't Marner get any respect?

He's putting up draft eligible numbers that are higher than the likes of Taveras, Stamkos, Seguin, and Hall, not to mention very close to Patrick Kane (a very similar player) numbers. All I'm hearing are excuses as to why his point totals are so high, rather than people admitting what might be true - that he could be on par with that class of player.

Is it just the McEichel effect? The thought that there cannot be this many truly elite players in one draft? A similar argument can be made for Strome.
 
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hockeey

Registered User
Oct 28, 2014
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I know you didn't quote me - But IMO.

This draft has:

2 X 1st overall players (McDavid / Eichel)
3 X 2nd overall players (Hanifin / Marner / Strome)
3 X 3rd overall players (Werenski / Provorov / Barzal)

I think in any given draft, teams would be happy with these players in the top3.

Seems like one of those Getzlaf/Carter/Perry/Richards drafts where there are some quality players overshadowed by the bloatedness of the top10

That's fine, thanks for replying anyways. I was just trying to figure out how deep the first round looked and just the top 8 looks really strong haha
 

Hunters Rule

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Feb 6, 2015
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No chance any of those 3 go #1 in any draft, sorry.

Sorry but no chance is a little far fetched to say this early. Marner seems to be a better looking prospect than Yakapov/compares well stats wise to Mackinnon/Hall and probably a little lesser to Seguin. Strome/Hanifin maybe goes 2nd/3rd/4th in no particular order in those 3 drafts with the exception of Hanifin maybe being a tossup with Ekblad last year. Only using this based on the last 4 drafts. Time will only tell, Cheers.
 
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Sonic Disturbance

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Jan 1, 2009
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He said in their respective drafts, reading is hard. Stamkos was not that hyped. In fact he was one of the least hyped #1 overall picks in the last decade.

I DID read and I know what he meant. Are you kidding me? Tampa Bay already started putting up "Got Stamkos" ads before he was even drafted. There was a poll I believe in 2008 that IF Tavares was eligible that year (he missed the cutoff date by just a bit), that several scouts would take Stamkos over him anyway. There was ZERO hesitation/doubt who the #1 pick was that year even though Drew Doughty was named as the best D-man in the WJC as a draft-eligbile player that year.



To say that he was one of the least-hyped #1 picks in the last decade is complete misinformation. I've been following the NHL draft closely since 2002 and the only prospects I would say were more hyped were:

2004 - Ovechkin
2005 - Crosby
2009 - Tavares

Here's an article that was published months before the 2008 draft:

John Tavares of the Oshawa Generals would like nothing more than to be eligible for this year's draft, but he was born five days too late, according to existing rules. So while Tavares' agent Bryan Deasley continues to lobby the NHL in what would appear to be a longshot effort to make Tavares eligible for 2008 instead of 2009, here's a question we put to the scouts after they ranked the 2008 prospects:

"If John Tavares were eligible for the 2008 draft and it was being held on Saturday, where would he rank on the lists they just submitted?"

The strong consensus is at No. 2, just behind Sarnia sniper Steven Stamkos. Tavares accumulated 91 voting points. Stamkos had 100; and Drew Doughty 88.


Three scouts did say they would take Tavares first overall.

"You can't look past 72 goals as a 16 year old," one scout said. "He's only going to get better. He's so focused. He is so determined to score goals and make goals happen that he won't be denied."

But five scouts pegged him at No. 2 and two others ranked him at No. 3. So seven of 10 scouts surveyed, as of today, would take Stamkos over Tavares.

It wouldn't be fair to say scouts are concerned that Tavares' skating, deemed to be average at this point, will prevent him from becoming a big-time NHL scorer, but compared directly to the dynamic skating of Stamkos, the scouts who slotted Tavares at No. 2 did say it has to be a factor.

"His skating is just okay," one scout said. "But he's still a special player. The thing is, Stamkos is dynamic. His upside is huge. He has a lot of Steve Yzerman and Bryan Trottier qualities."

In his first OHL season, as a 16-year-old, Stamkos finished with 42 goals and 92 points in 63 games. Those are great numbers but pale beside the prolific scoring ability of Tavares.

In Tavares first OHL season, as a 15-year-old, he had 45 goals and 77 points in 65 games. Last season, Tavares scored 72 goals and 134 points in 67 games, eclipsing Wayne Gretzky's OHL record for most goals by a 16-year-old.

Worth noting is that even though Stamkos is eligible for this year's draft and Tavares currently is not, they are both the same age, born in the same year, separated by about seven months. Stamkos was born on Feb. 7, 1990. Tavares on Sept. 20, 1990.

"When you talk about the difference between Stamkos and Tavares," one scout said, "you could be talking the difference between Jean Beliveau and Phil Esposito. It certainly looks like they both have what it takes to be great players."

That said, there were two scouts who said, at this moment in time, they would take Stamkos and Doughty ahead of Tavares if Tavares was successful in being included in this year's draft.

"I am sure he's going to get stronger and his skating will improve, but if the draft was on Saturday, I would at this point have to take Stamkos or Doughty ahead of (Tavares) based on what I've seen of them all so far," the scout said. "Could that be different by June of 08? Sure, it could. Everything could be different for a lot of players by then."

And in that vein, for all the talk about how high Tavares would go in the 2008 draft if he were eligible, scouts cautioned Tavares may still be challenged for No. 1 in 2009 by 6-foot-5 Swedish defenceman Viktor Hedman, dubbed by some as the "Swedish Chris Pronger," a big, mobile blueliner who is also drawing favorable comparisons to 2006 No. 1 overall pick Erik Johnson of the St. Louis Blues. Some scouts also believe big defenceman Jared Cowan of the Spokane Chiefs, the first player taken in the WHL bantam draft, could also be a factor in 2009.

As for whether there is any chance of Tavares actually being declared eligible for this year's draft, it doesn't look as though it's likely or imminent. Tavares' agent Deasley has conferred with both the NHL and NHL Players' Association, but the league's position, at this point, is it doesn't see any strong impetus to change the rules or grant any exceptions.


Courtesy Bob McKenzie
 
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LV*

Free my bro Leivo
Aug 26, 2012
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very true. You're lying if anyone saw the season Ekblad was going to have. Florida thought they got a great young prospect I don't think they realized they got an elite future franchise D-man who at the age of 18-19 looks already to be in line to be a captain.

check my post history bud.
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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I'm a little worried about the advanced hype of Hanifin, Strome or Marner being some pre-emptive Leafs Nation chest thumping after the draft... I'd love to have any one of these guys but I don't want to start the whisper campaign of them being better than first overalls. Let their development do the talking.
 

RyanOhReally

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Jan 21, 2015
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Georgetown, ON
With the Leafs, at the moment, in line to pick #4 and with a hole at either 2C or 3C, I was wondering if Marner was an NHL ready player.

So I'll ask you guys... Could he step in the NHL next year and play 2C/3C minutes effectively, or should he stay in London in this scenario?
 

fahad203

Registered User
Oct 3, 2009
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With the Leafs, at the moment, in line to pick #4 and with a hole at either 2C or 3C, I was wondering if Marner was an NHL ready player.

So I'll ask you guys... Could he step in the NHL next year and play 2C/3C minutes effectively, or should he stay in London in this scenario?


I think he can but he shouldn't. In theory every player can step into NHL.

I think he's 2-3 years away. Another year in O won't hurt.
 

stevo61

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Jul 5, 2011
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With the Leafs, at the moment, in line to pick #4 and with a hole at either 2C or 3C, I was wondering if Marner was an NHL ready player.

So I'll ask you guys... Could he step in the NHL next year and play 2C/3C minutes effectively, or should he stay in London in this scenario?

Skill and compete is there, physical maturity? no. No point in rushing this kid, he has all the skill in the world but should be given time to get stronger
 

613Leafer

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May 26, 2008
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He's putting up draft eligible numbers that are higher than the likes of Taveras, Stamkos, Seguin, and Hall, not to mention very close to Patrick Kane (a very similar player) numbers. All I'm hearing are excuses as to why his point totals are so high, rather than people admitting what might be true - that he could be on par with that class of player.

Is it just the McEichel effect? The thought that there cannot be this many truly elite players in one draft? A similar argument can be made for Strome.

The thing with Marner is that while he does play with good players, he's still the guy leading the charge. So he's not Sam Gagner riding Kane's coattails, he's the main guy.

Are his stats overinflated because of the line/team he's on? I would guess that yes, they probably are. But he's also ~20 points ahead of Hall/Seguin as a comparison, and I'd imagine that his linemates have probably only boosted his stats by roughly that amount relative to if he'd been playing with a couple of ~75 point guys like Hall was.

On top of that, Marner is a hard working two-way player that excels in all three zones. So my guess is that he's fairly close to these guys from their draft years. Arguably at or just below them offensively, but ahead of them defensively. It's not all about points, but he definitely seems to have the tools to excel at the NHL level.
 

KGL

Auston 3:16
Sep 5, 2014
7,499
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With the Leafs, at the moment, in line to pick #4 and with a hole at either 2C or 3C, I was wondering if Marner was an NHL ready player.

So I'll ask you guys... Could he step in the NHL next year and play 2C/3C minutes effectively, or should he stay in London in this scenario?

London. He has played wing all year for the Knights. The Leafs are going to be awful next year, with or without him. For those reasons, London is the place to be. Let him continue to develop away from the Leafs tire fire and let him play centre on the Knights.
 

613Leafer

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May 26, 2008
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With the Leafs, at the moment, in line to pick #4 and with a hole at either 2C or 3C, I was wondering if Marner was an NHL ready player.

So I'll ask you guys... Could he step in the NHL next year and play 2C/3C minutes effectively, or should he stay in London in this scenario?

He's barely played centre since he was a 15 year old in AAA. Could he be a winger in the NHL next season? Maybe. Could he be a centre? I dont think so, the jump from AAA to the NHL is ridiculous, and that's where his experience as a centre is.

For him to become an NHL centre, IMO he'd need at minimum another year of development, where he played centre all year.
 

tfong

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With the Leafs, at the moment, in line to pick #4 and with a hole at either 2C or 3C, I was wondering if Marner was an NHL ready player.

So I'll ask you guys... Could he step in the NHL next year and play 2C/3C minutes effectively, or should he stay in London in this scenario?

He's not even a C right now. So you would be getting a winger. Realistically, Leafs want Strome imo.
 

Leon Draisaitl

German Gretzky
Jun 26, 2014
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With the Leafs, at the moment, in line to pick #4 and with a hole at either 2C or 3C, I was wondering if Marner was an NHL ready player.

So I'll ask you guys... Could he step in the NHL next year and play 2C/3C minutes effectively, or should he stay in London in this scenario?

He should play one more year in the OHL and then if he can't go to the AHL, he should be in the NHL.
 

KGL

Auston 3:16
Sep 5, 2014
7,499
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He's not even a C right now. So you would be getting a winger. Realistically, Leafs want Strome imo.

I'd say it's more likely the Leafs management wants Marner more than Strome. Hunter could have the loudest voice at the draft table, he'll want the London Knight on the board.

Leafs fans seem to be split 50/50 between the two for the most part. I personally keep flipping, currently on Strome at the moment.
 

glg51*

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I'd say it's more likely the Leafs management wants Marner more than Strome. Hunter could have the loudest voice at the draft table, he'll want the London Knight on the board.

Leafs fans seem to be split 50/50 between the two for the most part. I personally keep flipping, currently on Strome at the moment.

Not another skilled winger... I see Leafs going for Strome.
 

Knies iT

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Mar 6, 2015
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The thing with Marner is that while he does play with good players, he's still the guy leading the charge. So he's not Sam Gagner riding Kane's coattails, he's the main guy.

Are his stats overinflated because of the line/team he's on? I would guess that yes, they probably are. But he's also ~20 points ahead of Hall/Seguin as a comparison, and I'd imagine that his linemates have probably only boosted his stats by roughly that amount relative to if he'd been playing with a couple of ~75 point guys like Hall was.

On top of that, Marner is a hard working two-way player that excels in all three zones. So my guess is that he's fairly close to these guys from their draft years. Arguably at or just below them offensively, but ahead of them defensively. It's not all about points, but he definitely seems to have the tools to excel at the NHL level.
Just because a player has a motor doesn't mean they "excel" defensively. Marner's positioning in his own end is pretty bad, he gets caught running around puck chasing. Strome, in comparison, has great positioning in the defensive zone. Marner is a relentless, offensive winger that's not afraid to go to the dirty areas. That doesn't make him a 2-way forward.
 

Knies iT

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Mar 6, 2015
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Also...

% of points Dvorak and Domi have contributed to Marner's totals:
Dvorak (48%) and Domi (29%)

versus

% of points Debrincat and Baptiste have inputted into Strome's production:
DeBrincat (22%) Baptiste (17%)

(also consider that Strome was without Baptiste at the start of the year, prior to a trade from Sudbury)
 

KGL

Auston 3:16
Sep 5, 2014
7,499
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Not another skilled winger... I see Leafs going for Strome.

Marner can play centre as well. Wouldn't be surprising to see him in London again next season playing the centre position. Don't think it's fair to call only a winger at this point, he could still be a NHL centremen, we'll have to wait and see.
 

ZeroPT*

Guest
Also...

% of points Dvorak and Domi have contributed to Marner's totals:
Dvorak (48%) and Domi (29%)

versus

% of points Debrincat and Baptiste have inputted into Strome's production:
DeBrincat (22%) Baptiste (17%)

(also consider that Strome was without Baptiste at the start of the year, prior to a trade from Sudbury)
I'm like 99% sure those are McDavid's linemates
 

613Leafer

Registered User
May 26, 2008
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Also...

% of points Dvorak and Domi have contributed to Marner's totals:
Dvorak (48%) and Domi (29%)

versus

% of points Debrincat and Baptiste have inputted into Strome's production:
DeBrincat (22%) Baptiste (17%)

(also consider that Strome was without Baptiste at the start of the year, prior to a trade from Sudbury)

Marner's line has been kept together all year, Strome's hasn't. McDavid in the lineup vs out of the lineup changes the winger combinations.
 

DrJenniferHanson

Cursed By A Gypsy
Aug 31, 2011
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Just because a player has a motor doesn't mean they "excel" defensively. Marner's positioning in his own end is pretty bad, he gets caught running around puck chasing. Strome, in comparison, has great positioning in the defensive zone. Marner is a relentless, offensive winger that's not afraid to go to the dirty areas. That doesn't make him a 2-way forward.

Marner's effort is excellent defensively. The reason he's caught out of position is because he tries to compensate for London's poor defence (1 sophomore, 6 rookies) that can't win battles nor execute a simple breakout. Complicating the issue is the LW on his line cherry-picks more often than not, and doesn't really exert any effort defensively. So the ice surface is a bit tilted when the puck is in London's zone.
 

JL17

Registered User
Mar 12, 2009
3,782
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London
Marner's line has been kept together all year, Strome's hasn't. McDavid in the lineup vs out of the lineup changes the winger combinations.

No Marners line has not been together all year.

It was a mix of a player before December. Then Dvorak and Rupert till the WJC were over, then Domi and Dvorak till last week and last week was Sterk and Rupert.
 

Knightnight

Registered User
Mar 18, 2014
626
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Just because a player has a motor doesn't mean they "excel" defensively. Marner's positioning in his own end is pretty bad, he gets caught running around puck chasing. Strome, in comparison, has great positioning in the defensive zone. Marner is a relentless, offensive winger that's not afraid to go to the dirty areas. That doesn't make him a 2-way forward.

Perhaps watch some games before actually critiquing a player if you want credibility. There is a video of a shift by shift for marner to show either 1 you don't watch or more likely don't know what to watch. I believe its a combination of both in your case because if you watched a lot of London games you would know Marner has not played with Domi most of the year.
Secondly maybe you should pull % of Stromes points with McDavid. Its very high because they PP and PK together. Also on the ice for empty netters and sometimes even play 5 on 5 together.
That being said Strome is an excellent prospect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvm2eZHcj4Q
 
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maketrades

Registered User
May 30, 2014
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I'd say it's more likely the Leafs management wants Marner more than Strome. Hunter could have the loudest voice at the draft table, he'll want the London Knight on the board.

Leafs fans seem to be split 50/50 between the two for the most part. I personally keep flipping, currently on Strome at the moment.

After watching this. I want Marner...bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmvOmw0GAwQ

Patrick Kane 2.0. 10 year old Marner has swag, and that's what's needed in Toronto.

Him and Willy together :naughty:
 
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