C/LW Cole Perfetti - Saginaw Spirit, OHL (2020, 10th, WPG)

[LarKing]

I was initially very upset about dropping to 4th but the more I read/watch about Perfetti, Rossi, etc. the more excited I am that we’re still getting a likely very good player and potential star.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Let’s revisit your original statement.

“If I draft in the top 10 and end up with a Darren Helm I’ve failed just as much as someone who drafted a player who tops off as an AHL player” (paraphrased).

Not one person is saying draft a player who’s CEILING is a Darren Helm player. They’re ceiling Perfetti May have a higher ceiling, but his floor is much lower than someone like Jarvis who is likely an NHL player either way.

Its like saying it’s a 50/50 chance Perfetti is a 90pt player or an AHL journeyman while Jarvis is 50/50 chance to be a 70pt player or a 3rd line checking role player. Understandable why some GMs may take the second option.

Hopefully you can see how foolish your statement is.

No sorry, I don't. Coming away with a guy who spends a couple years as a 3rd line player, and a few more as an overpaid 4th line player when you have the 4th pick in the draft is not a "Well at least we didn't fail" result. You did fail.

Nevermind the idea that a 5'9 scoring winger is automatically going to at least be a 3rd line grinder. Lots of times when someone says this player has a high floor, it turns out that you end up with Colton Teubert.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

95% of people on here gain some vague understanding of the player - even just size - and immediately start spurting opinions. Then it just snowballs. It’s insane.

This is how we ended up with the vast majority of this board thinking Kirby Dach had skating issues at the time of last year’s draft.

Just today I saw a poster try to throw Byfield into a category with Getzlaf and Thornton, and then say that kind of big centre doesn’t succeed anymore in the modern NHL.

Tis the season and its longer than most. Its actually pretty funny how tight fisted people that just started looking into the prospects are

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Darren Helm was a pretty great third liner for a couple seasons there, but ultimately, I agree. Go big or go home. Perfetti has a lot of bust potential, but his boom is pretty damn high too. He really showed up in the second half of the season, which leads me to believe he has all the tools he needs to overcome his deficiencies.

Nice depth player. Not someone you want as a top 10 pick. No one is picking a player and hoping for someone in the Darren Helm sorta mold

 

[nbwingsfan]

Nice depth player. Not someone you want as a top 10 pick. No one is picking a player and hoping for someone in the Darren Helm sorta mold

Not one person is saying they’re hoping for it. People are just pointing out the theory that one poster came up with that you failed “just as badly” as a team who picks an AHL scrub if you end up with a Darren Helm.

 

[nbwingsfan]

No sorry, I don't. Coming away with a guy who spends a couple years as a 3rd line player, and a few more as an overpaid 4th line player when you have the 4th pick in the draft is not a "Well at least we didn't fail" result. You did fail.

Nevermind the idea that a 5'9 scoring winger is automatically going to at least be a 3rd line grinder. Lots of times when someone says this player has a high floor, it turns out that you end up with Colton Teubert.

Did anyone say they wouldn’t have failed? Nope.

We’re saying if you end up with an actual solid bottom 6 NHL player you didn’t fail just as badly as a team who didn’t get an NHL player at all as you so put

 

[snipes]

I was initially very upset about dropping to 4th but the more I read/watch about Perfetti, Rossi, etc. the more excited I am that we’re still getting a likely very good player and potential star.

Also potentially Drysdale, who is an outstanding player. Likely the best skater in the draft or top 3 at the minimum.

Drysdale is such a beautiful and fluid skater to watch. A modern day top pairing NHL D man written all over him. Might not be the sexiest pick, but it’d be an excellent pick as well.

Building around Seider/Drysdale on the backend gives a really solid foundation going forward for the Wings.

I’m a big Rossi fan. As I noted in other threads, I’m not overly concerned about his size. He’s got extremely strong and muscular legs like Crosby did at the same age. He’s built like a tank in the lower body. His height/weight ratio with his lower body strength doesn’t concern me at all. He may need to break in on the wing at first, but I wouldn’t be overly concerned about his long term abilities to be a centre.

 

[Llamamoto]

Also potentially Drysdale, who is an outstanding player. Likely the best skater in the draft or top 3 at the minimum.

Drysdale is such a beautiful and fluid skater to watch. A modern day top pairing NHL D man written all over him. Might not be the sexiest pick, but it’d be an excellent pick as well.

Building around Seider/Drysdale on the backend gives a really solid foundation going forward for the Wings.

I’m a big Rossi fan. As I noted in other threads, I’m not overly concerned about his size. He’s got extremely strong and muscular legs like Crosby did at the same age. He’s built like a tank in the lower body. His height/weight ratio with his lower body strength doesn’t concern me at all. He may need to break in on the wing at first, but I wouldn’t be overly concerned about his long term abilities to be a centre.

I don't think skating/strength is an issue for Rossi, and I think Perfetti's skating is underrated as well. (His strength needs to improve).

The reason I have Perfetti slightly ahead of Rossi is purely because of his offensive talent. His hands and shot are both so much better, and I think he's a more creative player as well. You're betting on upside in this case.

 

[93LEAFS]

Also potentially Drysdale, who is an outstanding player. Likely the best skater in the draft or top 3 at the minimum.

Drysdale is such a beautiful and fluid skater to watch. A modern day top pairing NHL D man written all over him. Might not be the sexiest pick, but it’d be an excellent pick as well.

Building around Seider/Drysdale on the backend gives a really solid foundation going forward for the Wings.

I’m a big Rossi fan. As I noted in other threads, I’m not overly concerned about his size. He’s got extremely strong and muscular legs like Crosby did at the same age. He’s built like a tank in the lower body. His height/weight ratio with his lower body strength doesn’t concern me at all. He may need to break in on the wing at first, but I wouldn’t be overly concerned about his long term abilities to be a centre.

Skating wise, Dyrsdale is probably behind at least Liam Foudy, Stutzle, and Sanderson.

 

[bsu]

Skating wise, Dyrsdale is probably behind at least Liam Foudy, Stutzle, and Sanderson.

Nah.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Skating wise, Dyrsdale is probably behind at least Liam Foudy, Stutzle, and Sanderson.

No he isn't, Most scouts say he's the best skater in the draft.

 

[newfy]

Skating wise, Dyrsdale is probably behind at least Liam Foudy, Stutzle, and Sanderson.

*Jean Luc Foudy

But ya I dont think I'm going to say those guys are all better than Drysdale. Theyre all in the conversation for best skater and on any given day I think could claim top spot.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

*Jean Luc Foudy

But ya I dont think I'm going to say those guys are all better than Drysdale. Theyre all in the conversation for best skater and on any given day I think could claim top spot.

Didn't Drysdale put up top 3 in all of the skating categories at the prospect game stuff?

He was a guy I was very intrigued to see combine numbers from.

In terms of the guy in this thread I was really intrigued by getting those on a lot of guys in this draft, in terms of establishing some athletic ceilings. I think that does hurt the decision making process here.

 

[93LEAFS]

Didn't Drysdale put up top 3 in all of the skating categories at the prospect game stuff?

He was a guy I was very intrigued to see combine numbers from.

In terms of the guy in this thread I was really intrigued by getting those on a lot of guys in this draft, in terms of establishing some athletic ceilings. I think that does hurt the decision making process here.

He finished 4th. Although, I don't think its a perfect measurement, it has issues but it went in overall rankings Foudy, Perreault, Byfield, and Drysdale. And the two other guys I originally pointed to don't play in the CHL (Stutzle and Sanderson). He dominated backwards skating and finished 3rd going forward without the puck. But, didn't place top 3 in any of the agility based ones.

Top Prospects perform in Sport Testing Combine – Kubota Top Prospects

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

He finished 4th. Although, I don't think its a perfect measurement, it has issues but it went in overall rankings Foudy, Perreault, Byfield, and Drysdale. And the two other guys I originally pointed to don't play in the CHL (Stutzle and Sanderson). He dominated backwards skating and finished 3rd going forward without the puck. But, didn't place top 3 in any of the agility based ones.

Top Prospects perform in Sport Testing Combine – Kubota Top Prospects

Vertical jump is one of those a lot of scouts attribute to first step explosion, at least I have heard scouts say that in terms of you're looking there for a lot of correlation.

 

[KnockHobbler]

So the Sens still wind up with Byfield and Stutzle? I like this timeline.

Ya I would probably dance in the street

 

[pckstpr31]

95% of people on here gain some vague understanding of the player - even just size - and immediately start spurting opinions. Then it just snowballs. It’s insane.

I think this is a really good point and something that seems to go under-appreciated somewhat. With the amount of information that's out there it's very easy to have your opinions swayed by what you read, and then you have that preconception in your head when you go on to read other things about prospects. Then you start defending an opinion that you may not have even taken the time to verify for yourself. I know I can be guilty of this for sure. While it's fun to discuss prospects regardless, and you certainly don't need an extensive scouting background to do so, it is nice to have that reminder that the majority of what's written on here likely isn't backed up by actual in-person/video scouting.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't see the point in comparing the skating of defensemen to forwards. What gain is there if Drysdale is a better or worse skater than Stuetzle? Is it worth anything in draft position? I guess if you want to merely name off purely the best skater, regardless of position, you could. You aren't forced to give the best for each position. In that case, I think Foudy would be the first name that one would come up with. But at the same time, I think it's worth the distinction that the requirements of forward and defensemen require different needs out of skating, so being better or worse doesn't matter when you are comparing forwards and defensemen.

 

[Anardil]

Let’s revisit your original statement.

“If I draft in the top 10 and end up with a Darren Helm I’ve failed just as much as someone who drafted a player who tops off as an AHL player” (paraphrased).

Not one person is saying draft a player who’s CEILING is a Darren Helm player. They’re ceiling Perfetti May have a higher ceiling, but his floor is much lower than someone like Jarvis who is likely an NHL player either way.

Its like saying it’s a 50/50 chance Perfetti is a 90pt player or an AHL journeyman while Jarvis is 50/50 chance to be a 70pt player or a 3rd line checking role player. Understandable why some GMs may take the second option.

Hopefully you can see how foolish your statement is.

I think that 'Docs' post is quite clear.

If your top ten pick ends up being a 3rd line player, then you have wasted the pick. It is not a slight to Helm, or any other 3rd liner, rather, one would expect a top ten pick to end up being at least a top 6 forward or a top 4 d-man.

As a Habs fan, unfortunately, we have had plenty of experience in the team's 1st round picks not reaching expectations.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I think that 'Docs' post is quite clear.

If your top ten pick ends up being a 3rd line player, then you have wasted the pick. It is not a slight to Helm, or any other 3rd liner, rather, one would expect a top ten pick to end up being at least a top 6 forward or a top 4 d-man.

As a Habs fan, unfortunately, we have had plenty of experience in the team's 1st round picks not reaching expectations.

Did you “waste” the pick just as much as a team who was also top 10 and didn’t even get an NHL player out of it? No.

which was his original statement.

 

[canuck2010]

Skating wise, Dyrsdale is probably behind at least Liam Foudy, Stutzle, and Sanderson.

Ouch, you may have a few people disagree with that statement

 

[93LEAFS]

Ouch, you may have a few people disagree with that statement

I should have said Jean-Luc Foudy, but I don't come here for people universally agree. If I didn't I wouldn't have lasted a decade around here. I know of people in the field who would agree with me and those who wouldn't.

I mean, I think its far from a perfect capture. It represents one day of testing. But among CHL skaters he finished 4th in on-ice testing. Now, the only person who finished above him I think is clearly better is Foudy.

 

[bsu]

I should have said Jean-Luc Foudy, but I don't come here for people universally agree. If I didn't I wouldn't have lasted a decade around here. I know of people in the field who would agree with me and those who wouldn't.

I mean, I think its far from a perfect capture. It represents one day of testing. But among CHL skaters he finished 4th in on-ice testing. Now, the only person who finished above him I think is clearly better is Foudy.

Just watch some footage drysdale skating is unbelievable

 

[93LEAFS]

Just watch some footage drysdale skating is unbelievable

I have. I've known about him since he was on the Marlies. I don't base what I say on not watching these players. I'm not saying he isn't a great skater, just that I personally think that those 3 are better and it isn't an extremely outlying opinion.

I mean, I know they all graded out better than Drysdale in the Black Book and Button's reports for TSN, but didn't for Pronman (who had two Russian's and Drysdale as the best for him).

 

[newfy]

I think that 'Docs' post is quite clear.

If your top ten pick ends up being a 3rd line player, then you have wasted the pick. It is not a slight to Helm, or any other 3rd liner, rather, one would expect a top ten pick to end up being at least a top 6 forward or a top 4 d-man.

As a Habs fan, unfortunately, we have had plenty of experience in the team's 1st round picks not reaching expectations.

Its obviously not clear if you dont even understand what he said. Getting Darren Helm with a top 10 pick is still miles better than not getting an NHL player. Its not the same thing and saying it is is a complete lie.

2002 NHL draft, Petr Taticek goes 9th and Eric Nystrom goes 10th. Nystrom wasnt a top 10 worthy pick and what most would call a "failed" pick. He was absolutely not the same level of failure as Taticek who wasnt an NHL player at all