C Jack Eichel - Boston University, NCAA (2015, 2nd, BUF) III

[CaseyMitts37]

I think you are a bit overestimating what Eichel is doing at this WCH. He had 3 assists in 4 games right now in an age of 18 years and 6 months. Stamkos, when he was 19 years old and 3 months, was one of the best players at the 2009 WCH and tied-best goalscorer. MacKinnon had 10 points in 7 playoff games in similar age as Eichel right now.

Eichel is impressive, but I don't know how this WCH change opinions about Eichel. He's great, he's playing on high level with mature players, he's one of the best prospects in hockey since Crosby entered the league. Still, WCH is a tournament when Trevor Lewis may be best offensive player in one of the best teams there.

Stamkos had Martin St.Louis on his line, Eichel has Brock Nelson

 

[PeterCheater]

Stamkos had Martin St.Louis on his line, Eichel has Brock Nelson

After three games, USA was considered as a best team at the WHC behind Canada, and the game vs Belarus was by far the best by Eichel. Is it that bad support?

Methinks you are reading stat lines and not watching the games. Eichel has been visibly dominant at times, and has gotten better as the games have gone on.

No, he is not dominant, dominant player on WCH is destroying scoring tables, he's playing very well with flashes of greatness. But you didn't answer how it looks like in comparison with MacKinnon or Stamkos. 7-8 months older Stamkos at the WHC was all-star team-calliber player and best goalscorer, MacKinnon in similar age had some sick points streak for 18 y.o. and played terrific in playoffs in NHL. And if Eichel is better prospect than these two - should he show something more ''generational'', if you are saying how next step he made at this tournament? Because McDavid in every occasion is outscoring this Hall-Tavares-Stamkos group of players, in OHL, at the U19WCH, WJCH, now in playoffs...

I'm not saying he's not great, I've nothing against him, he's un-****in-believable good and potential American alltime great. But I don't have him as high as many in comparison with Stamkos or Tavares and MacKinnon, I think he's a bit better, because of his versatile, but still I think this is the same group of players potential-wise. What is really amazing.

Magnus Paajarvi was best Swedish player at the WCH '09, as a 19 y.o...

 

[hockeey]

After three games, USA was considered as a best team at the WHC behind Canada, and the game vs Belarus was by far the best by Eichel. Is it that bad support?


No, he is not dominant, dominant player on WCH is destroying scoring tables, he's playing very well with flashes of greatness. But you didn't answer how it looks like in comparison with MacKinnon or Stamkos. 7-8 months older Stamkos at the WHC was all-star team-calliber player and best goalscorer, MacKinnon in similar age had some sick points streak for 18 y.o. and played terrific in playoffs in NHL. And if Eichel is better prospect than these two - should he show something more ''generational'', if you are saying how next step he made at this tournament? Because McDavid in every occasion is outscoring this Hall-Tavares-Stamkos group of players, in OHL, at the U19WCH, WJCH, now in playoffs...

I'm not saying he's not great, I've nothing against him, he's un-****in-believable good and potential American alltime great. But I don't have him as high as many in comparison with Stamkos or Tavares and MacKinnon, I think he's a bit better, because of his versatile, but still I think this is the same group of players potential-wise. What is really amazing.

Magnus Paajarvi was best Swedish player at the WCH '09, as a 19 y.o...

Stop with the MacKinnon comparison, its completely irrelevant. He had a season of NHL play under his belt. Also to use points from such a small sample size is pretty useless, much better to watch. Is malkin a worse player than panarin because he has less points?

 

[radicalcenter]

After three games, USA was considered as a best team at the WHC behind Canada, and the game vs Belarus was by far the best by Eichel. Is it that bad support?


No, he is not dominant, dominant player on WCH is destroying scoring tables, he's playing very well with flashes of greatness. But you didn't answer how it looks like in comparison with MacKinnon or Stamkos. 7-8 months older Stamkos at the WHC was all-star team-calliber player and best goalscorer, MacKinnon in similar age had some sick points streak for 18 y.o. and played terrific in playoffs in NHL. And if Eichel is better prospect than these two - should he show something more ''generational'', if you are saying how next step he made at this tournament? Because McDavid in every occasion is outscoring this Hall-Tavares-Stamkos group of players, in OHL, at the U19WCH, WJCH, now in playoffs...

I'm not saying he's not great, I've nothing against him, he's un-****in-believable good and potential American alltime great. But I don't have him as high as many in comparison with Stamkos or Tavares and MacKinnon, I think he's a bit better, because of his versatile, but still I think this is the same group of players potential-wise. What is really amazing.

Magnus Paajarvi was best Swedish player at the WCH '09, as a 19 y.o...

When Stamkos, Tavares or Mac played at the WC they had one more development year than Eichel.

Let's just wait a year before comparing his performances to what those players did.

 

[Zero Requiem]

Let's not forget that Crosby had 16 points in 9 games and won the scoring title at the WHC at age 18.

 

[PeterCheater]

Also to use points from such a small sample size is pretty useless, much better to watch. Is malkin a worse player than panarin because he has less points?

Yes, in this moment, Malkin is a worse player at this WCH than Panarin, without any doubts. I don't see your point. I'm not saying Eichel is worse than Larkin because Larkin outscored him at the WJHC in January, but still, points production is the most important factor to evaluate offensive impact. Small sample size makes that opinion about Eichel's play at this WHC is higher than these 3 assists, but on the other hand he's 4th best scorer right now in a team touted before tournament as pretty weak. Is really that much impressive? IMHO - no, I suppose he should make some damage in that kind of team.

When Stamkos, Tavares or Mac played at the WC they had one more development year than Eichel.

Tavares was one year older. And yes, I'm taking it into account, if I would not do it, I didn't say he's a bit better prospect than these guys. But I don't know why I should not compare players in similar age.

I think that there're many overreacted opinions about Eichel. Look at this topic.

Eichel is playing very good at WCH, the same tournament where draft eligible, in similar age (4-5 months older?), Magnus Paajarvi was in All Star Team - and this may be more impressive, may be higher progress trajectory than beating results made by Crosby or Lindros in CHL playoffs by McDavid, after putting comparable numbers in regular season to Crosby's in last season in Rimouski, or much better than Lindros'? It's ridicoulus, isn't it?

Eichel dominated NCAA - and people say it's comparable to McDavid's domination in CHL. Second most talented offensive player in NCAA right now is Dylan Larkin (1,35 ppg this season) - Sonny Milano, chosen one pick behind Larkin, and 3rd best talented offensively player in US Teams in past years, was this season nothing special player in OHL. McDavid has twice points than he has. In this season 9 players from CHL chosen in last year draft ahead of Larkin played in their WHL, QMJHL or OHL teams, and McDavid dominated them in bigger way than Eichel dominated much less talented NCAA. And that's a fact, just look at the stats.

Eichel is more NHL ready than McDavid and that's why he's going to have better pro career. Yeah, that's right, he's better physically than McDavid and MAYBE he will have better rookie season? But let me ask for something. He's older than McDavid, better physically and more NHL ready - and why it affected their comparison only once, at the WJHC in '14, when McDavid was 16, played in much deeper in talent team, fact that he was just playing there was exceptional, and didn't get trust from a coach? ''More NHL ready'' Eichel at WHC U18 in '14 wasn't even close to results made by McDavid at WHC U18 in '13 (almost 1,5 years of difference, right?), more NHL ready Eichel wasn't even best scorer in his own team at the WJHC '15, while McDavid was tied-best scorer for Canada. So maybe you are overrating this ''better physically, more NHL ready'' thing?

What would you say when McDavid would be outscored/tied with players in his National Team in similar age? Eichel on international level:

2013 U17 World Hockey Challenge:
Sonny Milano (5 months older than Eichel, selected in 2014 by Columbus, as far as I remember): 10 points in 6 games
Chris Wilkie (4 months older than Eichel, I don't know who is this guy): 9 points in 6 games
Dylan Larkin (4 months older than Eichel, selected with 15th pick by Detroit): 7 points in 6 games
Eichel: 3 points in 5 games
McDavid: 9 points in 6 games in pretty bad team

2013 U18 WC
McDavid: 7 games, 14 points, MVP
Eichel: 7 games, 2 points, 2nd place

2014 U18 WC
Eichel: 7 games, 10 points
Milano: 7 games, 10 points
Best forward: Nylander, 7 games, 16 points

2015 WJC
Milano: 5 games, 4 points
Eichel: 5 games, 4 points
Larkin: 5 games, 7 points

He was very impressive at the 2014 WJC, though. McDavid was best scorer in his U17 team, best player in U18 WHC, had standard WJC as a 16, was tied best scorer as 17 and was selected to the AST. That looks better than what Crosby did in U17/U18/Junior national team. Wow, right?

Like I said, I've got nothing against Eichel, man, I'm so excited that USA has this kind of prospect, but let's be serious. Eichel is ~Malkin to McDavid being healthy ~Crosby. Sorry that my post is about McDavid vs. Eichel comparison, but I want to correct some false statements, and secondly, maybe I'm one and only but like for me everything what is written about Eichel is written in regard to Canadian prospect. And it doesn't work like that in second way. People claiming that Eichel may be better just make wishful thinking.

 

[hockeey]

Yes, in this moment, Malkin is a worse player at this WCH than Panarin, without any doubts. I don't see your point. I'm not saying Eichel is worse than Larkin because Larkin outscored him at the WJHC in January, but still, points production is the most important factor to evaluate offensive impact. Small sample size makes that opinion about Eichel's play at this WHC is higher than these 3 assists, but on the other hand he's 4th best scorer right now in a team touted before tournament as pretty weak. Is really that much impressive? IMHO - no, I suppose he should make some damage in that kind of team.
Tavares was one year older. And yes, I'm taking it into account, if I would not do it, I didn't say he's a bit better prospect than these guys. But I don't know why I should not compare players in similar age.

I think that there're many overreacted opinions about Eichel. Look at this topic.

Eichel is playing very good at WCH, the same tournament where draft eligible, in similar age (4-5 months older?), Magnus Paajarvi was in All Star Team - and this may be more impressive, may be higher progress trajectory than beating results made by Crosby or Lindros in CHL playoffs by McDavid, after putting comparable numbers in regular season to Crosby's in last season in Rimouski, or much better than Lindros'? It's ridicoulus, isn't it?

Eichel dominated NCAA - and people say it's comparable to McDavid's domination in CHL. Second most talented offensive player in NCAA right now is Dylan Larkin (1,35 ppg this season) - Sonny Milano, chosen one pick behind Larkin, and 3rd best talented offensively player in US Teams in past years, was this season nothing special player in OHL. McDavid has twice points than he has. In this season 9 players from CHL chosen in last year draft ahead of Larkin played in their WHL, QMJHL or OHL teams, and McDavid dominated them in bigger way than Eichel dominated much less talented NCAA. And that's a fact, just look at the stats.

Eichel is more NHL ready than McDavid and that's why he's going to have better pro career. Yeah, that's right, he's better physically than McDavid and MAYBE he will have better rookie season? But let me ask for something. He's older than McDavid, better physically and more NHL ready - and why it affected their comparison only once, at the WJHC in '14, when McDavid was 16, played in much deeper in talent team, fact that he was just playing there was exceptional, and didn't get trust from a coach? ''More NHL ready'' Eichel at WHC U18 in '14 wasn't even close to results made by McDavid at WHC U18 in '13 (almost 1,5 years of difference, right?), more NHL ready Eichel wasn't even best scorer in his own team at the WJHC '15, while McDavid was tied-best scorer for Canada. So maybe you are overrating this ''better physically, more NHL ready'' thing?

What would you say when McDavid would be outscored/tied with players in his National Team in similar age? Eichel on international level:

2013 U17 World Hockey Challenge:
Sonny Milano (5 months older than Eichel, selected in 2014 by Columbus, as far as I remember): 10 points in 6 games
Chris Wilkie (4 months older than Eichel, I don't know who is this guy): 9 points in 6 games
Dylan Larkin (4 months older than Eichel, selected with 15th pick by Detroit): 7 points in 6 games
Eichel: 3 points in 5 games
McDavid: 9 points in 6 games in pretty bad team

2013 U18 WC
McDavid: 7 games, 14 points, MVP
Eichel: 7 games, 2 points, 2nd place

2014 U18 WC
Eichel: 7 games, 10 points
Milano: 7 games, 10 points
Best forward: Nylander, 7 games, 16 points

2015 WJC
Milano: 5 games, 4 points
Eichel: 5 games, 4 points
Larkin: 5 games, 7 points

He was very impressive at the 2014 WJC, though. McDavid was best scorer in his U17 team, best player in U18 WHC, had standard WJC as a 16, was tied best scorer as 17 and was selected to the AST. That looks better than what Crosby did in U17/U18/Junior national team. Wow, right?

Like I said, I've got nothing against Eichel, man, I'm so excited that USA has this kind of prospect, but let's be serious. Eichel is ~Malkin to McDavid being healthy ~Crosby. Sorry that my post is about McDavid vs. Eichel comparison, but I want to correct some false statements, and secondly, maybe I'm one and only but like for me everything what is written about Eichel is written in regard to Canadian prospect. And it doesn't work like that in second way. People claiming that Eichel may be better just make wishful thinking.

Yeah I agree people saying eichel>mcdavid is a bit delusional. I just read your post earlier and it came off like you were ******** on eichel. I don't think eichel really established himself as a top player and iirc, barzal was considered higher than eichel before, but players will always develop differently.

I also think at this age points in a tournament isn't the most important factor. Prospects have so much development ahead of them that its best to look at their tools and IQ as small sample sizes have more "luck" in okay that doesn't even itself out over a longer period of time

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I think Eichel is going to be drafted 2nd OA by Buffalo.

 

[Ducks Nation*]

I think Eichel is going to be drafted 2nd OA by Buffalo.

You're really going out on a limb here.

 

[Beesfan]

Let's not forget that Crosby had 16 points in 9 games and won the scoring title at the WHC at age 18.

That was after a full season playing against men in the NHL. Experience like that matters a lot.

 

[CrosbytoKessel]

He just had a rush where i swear he looked like a Faster Malkin. Started back in his own zone and just wheeled end to end and make a nice under the stick move on their dmen. The dmen then grabbed him. Should have been a penalty.

 

[BakedBuffalo]

"McDavid is so much better because points" - this thread. If you think it's not close, you haven't watched Eichel enough. (In fact, judging by the asinine comments about Eichel in various threads this year, some haven't watched him at all) McDavid is a better prospect., but the difference is not massive, and you have to understand the context. Eichel is more NHL ready because of his strength, and in today's bush league NHL, his strength on the wall (and long reach) is going to be an enormous asset. Anything goes, especially in the playoffs, and he has shown the strength to shrug off NHL players at the Worlds.

I'm not saying McDavid won't be better, but as of right now, Eichel's game translates better to the NHL. Also, I saw people mentioning the size difference isn't much. Size =/= strength. Eichel is MUCH stronger than McDavid right now, AINEC. People who slight Eichel haven't seen him enough, or are just so in love with McDavid they can't admit another prospect (American, no less) is close to him.

 

[canuck2010]

He just had a rush where i swear he looked like a Faster Malkin. Started back in his own zone and just wheeled end to end and make a nice under the stick move on their dmen. The dmen then grabbed him. Should have been a penalty.

Everybody looks good on big ice. You have time and space, smaller ice in the NHL you don't have as much time and space.

 

[Mount Kramer Cameras]

Putting points aside for a moment, is he immediately gonna be one of the best pro skaters in the world? His effortless glide is just jaw dropping

 

[Sweet Chilly Heat]

Putting points aside for a moment, is he immediately gonna be one of the best pro skaters in the world? His effortless glide is just jaw dropping

Don't even bother, Eichel is great and I take way more stock in the unreal season he had, than a short tourney, let people talk, they will look and stats and say he is no Crosby or mackinnon and compare. I've seen eichel play about 25 separate times he reminds me of a fast jagr, so strong, and eichel has look good at the world, he is just trying to be cute, if he starts shooting more and still stays creative I think he will have a more successful tourney point wise, well that's my two cents.

 

[Plub]

Everybody looks good on big ice. You have time and space, smaller ice in the NHL you don't have as much time and space.

Completely false as stated by most every NHL player at the most recent Olympics. They do not like big ice because it is harder to make things happen when the defense has so much space to take away angles and recover from errors.

 

[sessiroth]

"McDavid is so much better because points" - this thread. If you think it's not close, you haven't watched Eichel enough. (In fact, judging by the asinine comments about Eichel in various threads this year, some haven't watched him at all) McDavid is a better prospect., but the difference is not massive, and you have to understand the context. Eichel is more NHL ready because of his strength, and in today's bush league NHL, his strength on the wall (and long reach) is going to be an enormous asset. Anything goes, especially in the playoffs, and he has shown the strength to shrug off NHL players at the Worlds.

I'm not saying McDavid won't be better, but as of right now, Eichel's game translates better to the NHL. Also, I saw people mentioning the size difference isn't much. Size =/= strength. Eichel is MUCH stronger than McDavid right now, AINEC. People who slight Eichel haven't seen him enough, or are just so in love with McDavid they can't admit another prospect (American, no less) is close to him.

I wonder if you would be singing the same tune if buffalo won the draft lotto

On a serious note. Really really like him as a prospect. USA has really stepped it up in terms of prospect talent the last few years and matthews looks like the gem of next year. I'm exited for the future of hockey

 

[WaltWhitman]

I wonder if you would be singing the same tune if buffalo won the draft lotto

Now explain why non-Sabre fans and even a couple Canadians have said the same thing.

Of course it can't be an honest difference of opinion.

 

[leafsfuture]

Completely false as stated by most every NHL player at the most recent Olympics. They do not like big ice because it is harder to make things happen when the defense has so much space to take away angles and recover from errors.

Biggest difference is that speed (contrary to popular opinion) and ability to make split second plays, doesnt matter as much on big ice.

Just 1 example -- Petri Kontiola was good for Finland at the Olympics, was making plays happen. He came to the Leafs and was terrible. He couldnt make a play because he didnt have the time. THe only times I ever saw him make positive plays was when he had open space and time.

In the NHL, reactions, acceleration, all those split second plays I mean, matter a lot more because of the lack of space... especially in this era where teams dont collapse as much.

Hence why a lot of guys look great on big ice, but terrible on small ice. I dont think the reverse is as true, in the sense that guys who are good on small ice may not be as good on big ice, but they wont be terrible

 

[canuck2010]

Completely false as stated by most every NHL player at the most recent Olympics. They do not like big ice because it is harder to make things happen when the defense has so much space to take away angles and recover from errors.

My point exactly. Lesser players look better on big ice in general.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

My point exactly. Lesser players look better on big ice in general.

So are you saying Eichel is a lesser player?

 

[rt]

Arizona lost HUGE at the lottery. My god. Probably the worst moment in Coyotes history. This is a primarily horrible history, mind you.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

Aside from the Finland game he has been dominant. I didn't watch the Belarus game but he has been impressive.

Bottom line is: it will be fun to watch him and McDavid next year in the NHL.

 

[Snippit]

Arizona lost HUGE at the lottery. My god. Probably the worst moment in Coyotes history. This is a primarily horrible history, mind you.

They only had about a 1 in 3 chance of landing Eichel or McDavid.

 

[1972]

Arizona lost HUGE at the lottery. My god. Probably the worst moment in Coyotes history. This is a primarily horrible history, mind you.

Indeed,