C German Rubtsov (2016, 22nd, PHI)

[Gsus]

1.He won't be eligible for the AHL for quite some time just because he is in the CHL now.

2.AHL<KHL

He has chosen an easy, cosy path short term that will cost him an arm and a leg long term.

Is this the way Russia treats their foreign players? Cut their arm and leg off? I mean I knew all kinds of stuff about Russia, but this is something.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Is this the way Russia treats their foreign players? Cut their arm and leg off? I mean I knew all kinds of stuff about Russia, but this is something.

NHL Russians are very popular in the country. Svechnikov jr as well.

 

[Atas2000]

Russians don't like a Russian who balked on his contract, color me surprised...

You don't get the pont of the discussion. Color me surprised...

Nobody cares about his contract. The problem is his inability to overcome any developmental difficulties and chosing the simple and wrong path for development.

 

[Atas2000]

Is this the way Russia treats their foreign players? Cut their arm and leg off? I mean I knew all kinds of stuff about Russia, but this is something.

Bad atempt of a xenophobic joke detected.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

You don't get the pont of the discussion. Color me surprised...

Nobody cares about his contract. The problem is his inability to overcome any developmental difficulties and chosing the simple and wrong path for development.

I think the right path for his development is where he plays a lot in all situations...he's on the top line in Chicoutimi...what's not to like if his development, not what country he's in, is your true concern?

 

[Atas2000]

Your crystal ball doesn't seem to be functioning properly.

I don't have one, but call me when Rutsov is at least a 2C on the Flyers. I won't be expecting a call.

LOL a player moves to a situation more advantageous for himself and it's "cowardice"

What's "advantageous" about going to play in a lesser league without a chance of a callup to a proper men's league?

Thank you Caser for being an honest responder instead of letting your flag cloud things like others in here have done.

It's your black and orange flag that blindes you obviously. To your disadvantage. The Flyers won't get the prospect they used a draft pick for now. You should think about that. It somehow makes you think people who want a player to succeed are haters. That logic is really cloudy to me.

Rubtsov is going the path many failed on before him. You should pray he is an exception from the rule. You could have gotten a Buchnevich in a couple of years. But if you like Yakupov more...

 

[Atas2000]

I think the right path for his development is where he plays a lot in all situations...he's on the top line in Chicoutimi...

So you think the most simple logic is always the right one? Yes, there is the obsession with ice time. And it's wrong. I have seen a lot of great players develop through practice and slowly growing ice time.

Just collecting points in the CHL won't develop a player.

what's not to like if his development, not what country he's in, is your true concern?

I could tell the same to you. Somehow North Americans assume just being in NA is better for a player's development. Statistics tell us a story. The true story of many many Russians failing in their development after leaving early for the CHL. It has nothing to do with countries. It's a stat.

Prove it wrong if you can, then we are talking about development and not countries being YOUR true concern.

 

[Curufinwe]

1.He won't be eligible for the AHL for quite some time just because he is in the CHL now.

Unsurprisingly, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Striiker]

While I appreciate your praise, it is definitely not right to call people with different opinion 'haters'. I think it is obvious that Russian posters don't hate him, at least because we just don't have any other option for the U20 NT #1 center spot next year. Anyway, if anyone is thinking that he should've stayed in the MHL and tried to get the KHL spot next year - that's definitely not a hate. But yeah, maybe rhetorics get a bit too harsh here sometimes.

As for me, I'm still a bit upset with him playing at wing, as from what I've seen, at W he is a shade of himself at C, at least in terms of offense. Anyway, it will be more important what happens to him next season, than this season.

By "haters" I believe Tripod meant the people saying he's a bust already and calling him a coward.

Someone saying they think he would have been better off staying in Russia is fine, but they're going way further than that and just bashing the guy for no reason.

They're just being immature and embarrassing themselves.

 

[ponder]

He was struggling in the KHL, not ready, and not getting ice time as a result. He probably figured, "if I'm going to be playing junior hockey anyways, why not start to get used to the North American game?" Seems like a good decision to me, he can play 1-2 seasons in the Q, then graduate to the AHL when he's ready. He's a solid prospect, but not an elite one, no sense trying to rush him into the NHL or KHL, he'll (hopefully) get there when he's ready.

Don't get the hate for this decision, he's making perfectly reasonable choices for his own development, and his goal of one day making the NHL.

 

[hurricanedave]

So you think the most simple logic is always the right one? Yes, there is the obsession with ice time. And it's wrong. I have seen a lot of great players develop through practice and slowly growing ice time.

Just collecting points in the CHL won't develop a player.



I could tell the same to you. Somehow North Americans assume just being in NA is better for a player's development. Statistics tell us a story. The true story of many many Russians failing in their development after leaving early for the CHL. It has nothing to do with countries. It's a stat.

Prove it wrong if you can, then we are talking about development and not countries being YOUR true concern.

Seems like its on you to prove your own point? No?

Considering there is only 36 active Russian players in the NHL it'd be kind of difficult to find any significant data anyhow.

 

[Gsus]

Looking pretty good in his debut (sry if it's already been posted):


I'm thinking very highly on him. A little more skilled Anisimov?

 

[MaxV]

Seems like its on you to prove your own point? No?

Considering there is only 36 active Russian players in the NHL it'd be kind of difficult to find any significant data anyhow.

This isn't the first generation of Russian players in NHL.

Not sure when Russians prospects started to come to CHL, but I'm sure it has been long enough. I know that Valery Bure went to CHL, so that's one success story, there haven't been many since.

From the recent crop of young, developed Russian players :

Developed in Russia: Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Panarin, Zaytsev, Vasilevskiy

Developed in CHL: Yakupov, Burmistrov, Grigorenko, Makarov

Pretty close.

You wanna count Kucherov 33 game CHL stint? Fine, him too.

 

[hurricanedave]

This isn't the first generation of Russian players in NHL.

Not sure when Russians prospects started to come to CHL, but I'm sure it has been long enough. I know that Valery Bure went to CHL, so that's one success story, bit there haven't been many since.

From the recent crop of young, developed Russian players :

Developed in Russia: Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Panarin, Zaytsev, Vasilevskiy

Developed in CHL: Yakupov, Burmistrov, Grigorenko, Makarov

Pretty close.

You wanna count Kucherov 33 game CHL stint? Fine, him too.

The point of mentioning only 36 active Russian players is significant considering they've been drafted over a range of the last decade. I really don't believe you could find any significant data to prove a point with such a small sample size. Sure you can pull a handful of names out but it's still just anecdotal.

German is just doing what he thinks is best for his career, I guess thought that there was opportunity for him in North America.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

I don't have one, but call me when Rutsov is at least a 2C on the Flyers. I won't be expecting a call.

So at the grand old age of 18 you've already written him off because he left Russia?




What's "advantageous" about going to play in a lesser league without a chance of a callup to a proper men's league?

The "lesser" league (CHL) produces far more players...FAAAAR more, than the Russian leagues. Period.

It's your black and orange flag that blindes you obviously. To your disadvantage. The Flyers won't get the prospect they used a draft pick for now. You should think about that. It somehow makes you think people who want a player to succeed are haters. That logic is really cloudy to me.

There you go using that crystal ball again.

Rubtsov is going the path many failed on before him. You should pray he is an exception from the rule. You could have gotten a Buchnevich in a couple of years. But if you like Yakupov more...

The Flyers currently have a player who went that route...and at 19 is not only their best defenceman but the best defenceman Russia has produced in...forever. Thank God he didn't stay over there a get ruined

 

[MaxV]

I just hope he develops into a good player, no matter where it is.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

So you think the most simple logic is always the right one? Yes, there is the obsession with ice time. And it's wrong. I have seen a lot of great players develop through practice and slowly growing ice time.

Just collecting points in the CHL won't develop a player.

I think when you're 18 you should be playing...not sitting. I'm pretty sure its a proven fact that most NHL players played a lot of minutes on whatever junior team they played on at 18.

I could tell the same to you. Somehow North Americans assume just being in NA is better for a player's development. Statistics tell us a story. The true story of many many Russians failing in their development after leaving early for the CHL. It has nothing to do with countries. It's a stat.

Prove it wrong if you can, then we are talking about development and not countries being YOUR true concern.

Again, it's not about being in NA....it's about him playing. He was given the yoyo treatment in Russia, up and down between 2 leagues and barely playing. If he was playing good minutes over there i'd be fine with it.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

I just hope he develops into a good player, no matter where it is.

This guy gets it ^^^

 

[MaxV]

This guy gets it ^^^

Honestly, I'm sick of that discussion already.

Track record of Russians from CHL is terrible, but perhaps this new generation of players can change that. Hopefully they do, as there are a bunch of very talented Russians in CHL.

It's possible this new generation of players are more prepared as far as language, culture and style of hockey.

 

[Striiker]

How about we leave the CHL vs KHL talk for that thread and let this thread be about the player it's supposed to be about?

Mods?

 

[Les Averman]

The primary flaw I see with the argument of guys playing in Russia rather than Canada is that you're lumping in thousands of Russian players that stay and develop through the Russian developmental system against the couple hundred players who have come over to the CHL to play juniors. And there are an incredible amount of factors that would play into somebody's decision. There's position, team, game style, coaching staff, family and so many other factors that can alter a decision.

Take a guy like Panarin for example. He was not drafted in the NHL draft and played in Russia up until he was 24. What reason would a guy like that, who wasn't drafted in the NHL Entry Draft, have to come over and play? There's no way to say that he would or wouldn't have turned out better playing a year of Canadian juniors and then gone into the AHL/NHL system.

Then you look at a guy like Tarasenko who was playing full time in the KHL as a 17 year old with a very favorable situation in Russia. He wasn't quite ready to play in the NHL, so he stayed for about 2 years after he was drafted by the Blues.

Now, you look at a guy like Rubstov, who is in a strange situation where he's being moved up and down by his team constantly, has a subpar MHL affiliate and isn't able to play for the VHL affiliate because of complications with management. Do I think that he's the Flyers 2C of the future? I have no clue. It hasn't been the most promising post-draft year, but there's nothing that suggests he's a bust, a coward, etc. as some are proclaiming in here. It was a strange situation in Russia and he wanted to go somewhere that would allow him to play meaningful minutes and actively develop his game, while adapting to NA culture.

The bottom line is that everybody is in a different situation. Just as easily as you can make the argument that Yakupov's development was hindered by coming to the CHL, you could also argue that he never had the intrinsic hockey sense to be a successful professional player. If anything, maybe you could say that he came over a bit too early during his formative years, but then you could look at a guy like Provorov and argue the opposite. The fact of the matter is that the number of Russians that develop in Russia GREATLY outnumbers those that develop in North America, so of course there are going to be a significant amount of players who are successful developing in Russia. That's just basic statistics.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Honestly, I'm sick of that discussion already.

Track record of Russians from CHL is terrible, but perhaps this new generation of players can change that. Hopefully they do, as there are a bunch of very talented Russians in CHL.

It's possible this new generation of players are more prepared as far as language, culture and style of hockey.

I think it's the culture shock personally. I think a more mature person can handle it easier. Just my opinion. It would be tough on any teenager moving to a different country on their own.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

The primary flaw I see with the argument of guys playing in Russia rather than Canada is that you're lumping in thousands of Russian players that stay and develop through the Russian developmental system against the couple hundred players who have come over to the CHL to play juniors. And there are an incredible amount of factors that would play into somebody's decision. There's position, team, game style, coaching staff, family and so many other factors that can alter a decision.

Take a guy like Panarin for example. He was not drafted in the NHL draft and played in Russia up until he was 24. What reason would a guy like that, who wasn't drafted in the NHL Entry Draft, have to come over and play? There's no way to say that he would or wouldn't have turned out better playing a year of Canadian juniors and then gone into the AHL/NHL system.

Then you look at a guy like Tarasenko who was playing full time in the KHL as a 17 year old with a very favorable situation in Russia. He wasn't quite ready to play in the NHL, so he stayed for about 2 years after he was drafted by the Blues.

Now, you look at a guy like Rubstov, who is in a strange situation where he's being moved up and down by his team constantly, has a subpar MHL affiliate and isn't able to play for the VHL affiliate because of complications with management. Do I think that he's the Flyers 2C of the future? I have no clue. It hasn't been the most promising post-draft year, but there's nothing that suggests he's a bust, a coward, etc. as some are proclaiming in here. It was a strange situation in Russia and he wanted to go somewhere that would allow him to play meaningful minutes and actively develop his game, while adapting to NA culture.

The bottom line is that everybody is in a different situation. Just as easily as you can make the argument that Yakupov's development was hindered by coming to the CHL, you could also argue that he never had the intrinsic hockey sense to be a successful professional player. If anything, maybe you could say that he came over a bit too early during his formative years, but then you could look at a guy like Provorov and argue the opposite. The fact of the matter is that the number of Russians that develop in Russia GREATLY outnumbers those that develop in North America, so of course there are going to be a significant amount of players who are successful developing in Russia. That's just basic statistics.

Very nice post.

 

[Zine]

The primary flaw I see with the argument of guys playing in Russia rather than Canada is that you're lumping in thousands of Russian players that stay and develop through the Russian developmental system against the couple hundred players who have come over to the CHL to play juniors. And there are an incredible amount of factors that would play into somebody's decision. There's position, team, game style, coaching staff, family and so many other factors that can alter a decision.

Take a guy like Panarin for example. He was not drafted in the NHL draft and played in Russia up until he was 24. What reason would a guy like that, who wasn't drafted in the NHL Entry Draft, have to come over and play? There's no way to say that he would or wouldn't have turned out better playing a year of Canadian juniors and then gone into the AHL/NHL system.

Then you look at a guy like Tarasenko who was playing full time in the KHL as a 17 year old with a very favorable situation in Russia. He wasn't quite ready to play in the NHL, so he stayed for about 2 years after he was drafted by the Blues.

Now, you look at a guy like Rubstov, who is in a strange situation where he's being moved up and down by his team constantly, has a subpar MHL affiliate and isn't able to play for the VHL affiliate because of complications with management. Do I think that he's the Flyers 2C of the future? I have no clue. It hasn't been the most promising post-draft year, but there's nothing that suggests he's a bust, a coward, etc. as some are proclaiming in here. It was a strange situation in Russia and he wanted to go somewhere that would allow him to play meaningful minutes and actively develop his game, while adapting to NA culture.

The bottom line is that everybody is in a different situation. Just as easily as you can make the argument that Yakupov's development was hindered by coming to the CHL, you could also argue that he never had the intrinsic hockey sense to be a successful professional player. If anything, maybe you could say that he came over a bit too early during his formative years, but then you could look at a guy like Provorov and argue the opposite. The fact of the matter is that the number of Russians that develop in Russia GREATLY outnumbers those that develop in North America, so of course there are going to be a significant amount of players who are successful developing in Russia. That's just basic statistics.

Right, but the talent level of the sample sizes are different though. The typical Russian CHLer is, on average, undoubtedly more talented than the typical player (one of the thousands) that stays home......so much so they're specifically targeted and drafted by CHL teams.

The guys that leave for the CHL tend to be higher end players, YET, since the 1990s, (tons of skilled guys) and I can literally count the success stories on 3 fingers; at least in terms of forwards.
Over the span of like 25 years, only Bure, Radulov and *maybe* Kucherov have developed into anything special.

Listen, as it pertains to Rubtsov, Russians aren't innately PO'd that he's leaving home. We're concerned because he's playing in the historical 'black hole' of Russian player development. Of course every case is different and he could turn into a success story.....however, historically speaking the Russian CHL success stories for forwards are rare outliers.

If there was a viable track-record of our players (especially forwards) properly developing in the CHL, I can't think of a Russian hockey fan who wouldn't be in favor of our guys leaving home early.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Right, but the talent level of the sample sizes are different though. The typical Russian CHLer is, on average, undoubtedly more talented than the typical player (one of the thousands) that stays home......so much so they're specifically targeted and drafted by CHL teams.

The guys that leave for the CHL tend to be higher end players, YET, since the 1990s, (tons of skilled guys) and I can literally count the success stories on 3 fingers; at least in terms of forwards.
Over the span of like 25 years, only Bure, Radulov and *maybe* Kucherov have developed into anything special.

Listen, as it pertains to Rubtsov, Russians aren't innately PO'd that he's leaving home. We're concerned because he's playing in the historical 'black hole' of Russian player development. Of course every case is different and he could turn into a success story.....however, historically speaking the Russian CHL success stories for forwards are rare outliers.

If there was a viable track-record of our players (especially forwards) properly developing in the CHL, I can't think of a Russian hockey fan who wouldn't be in favor of our guys leaving home early.

I can't disagree with what you've said here...also, I doubt many on this side of the pond would complain if he was being played regularly on one team. It was the jerking him back and forth and sitting him that had people concerned about his development.