C German Rubtsov (2016, 22nd, PHI)

[Juicy Pop]

That's how you are allowed to live with your prejudice(CHL ist goood, MHL is baaad). Because a player can't develop in two places at the same time.

Facts are all russian star players developed in Russia instead of CHL/AHL. Yes. Kucherov too, before somebody jumps out of nowhere with this stupidity again.And the CHL/AHL produced a number of busts so far.

If you want Rubtsov to become a bust...

I can buy that the cultural differences are significant enough that it can be too much to handle for a lot of young kids. It makes sense, a new country and language can be a scary enough environment on its own without the pressures of being an athlete.

That is all very reasonable, but you've yet to establish that there is some fundamental defect that invariably occurs in a player's development if they happen to transition to North America prior to their draft+2 year. All you have presented are a few examples without an examination of the cause.

It seems that it is you who can't recognize and curb your own prejudice in regards to this matter, since I've yet to see anything but vitriol directed at Rubstov on your part.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

you've yet to establish that there is some fundamental defect that invariably occurs in a player's development if they happen to transition to North America prior to their draft+2 year.

Well, I`m not saying it`s absolute, but I too would argue that because Russian players are not taught to dump and chase, and CHLers are not taught to slow down and play 5 man possession entries, that Russian prospects end up being well behind the curve and fan out, losing confidence and interest. Forechecking is a skill, that is easier to teach in the NHL where it`s not the only option. I look at a guy like Panarin and he is slowly adding a dump/chase/board battle element to his game, but his NHL success came from literally everything else. The NA game is a supplement rather than a culture shock.

 

[Magua]

Well, I`m not saying it`s absolute, but I too would argue that because Russian players are not taught to dump and chase, and CHLers are not taught to slow down and play 5 man possession entries, that Russian prospects end up being well behind the curve and fan out, losing confidence and interest. Forechecking is a skill, that is easier to teach in the NHL where it`s not the only option. I look at a guy like Panarin and he is slowly adding a dump/chase/board battle element to his game, but his NHL success came from literally everything else. The NA game is a supplement rather than a culture shock.

Good thing Rubtsov is a highly advanced cycle/boards player

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Tough situation.

If Rubtsov wasn't such a high pick, he probably would've just waited out his turn at Vityaz to play for the KHL team. Since he was a high pick, he probably thinks he has leverage.

He was a high pick because he's a very good player, so I'm not sure if Vityaz has made the right decision not to give him more ice time.

Russian players should not play in NA as teenagers, unless playing in Russia is not working for them. There's a lot more to consider than just the hockey, the cultural differences are bigger differences than the hockey. A few Russian players over the last 20 years have adapted really well to the culture, but most don't. The players that come over in their 20's are much more mature and able to adapt to different cultures. I hope he does well. He's a very talented hockey player.

 

[Juicy Pop]

Tough situation.

If Rubtsov wasn't such a high pick, he probably would've just waited out his turn at Vityaz to play for the KHL team. Since he was a high pick, he probably thinks he has leverage.

He was a high pick because he's a very good player, so I'm not sure if Vityaz has made the right decision not to give him more ice time.

Russian players should not play in NA as teenagers, unless playing in Russia is not working for them. There's a lot more to consider than just the hockey, the cultural differences are bigger differences than the hockey. A few Russian players over the last 20 years have adapted really well to the culture, but most don't. The players that come over in their 20's are much more mature and able to adapt to different cultures. I hope he does well. He's a very talented hockey player.

Yeah, at this point it just seems like a rough situation no matter what he decides, but given the circumstances he's probably better off pursuing actual ice-time and some semblance of development in North America.

 

[Kshahdoo]

You'd think the KHL would be a better league if the Russians were as good as you're saying at developing Russian players....


Interesting.

It looks like Rangers fans think, that Buchnevich is an ok NHLer, and he's just 21 and came from the KHL.

If you don't know him, I suggest you to remember another name, Kirill Kaprizov. He'll come to the NHL in a season, and become an immediate top6 on Minnesota.

Rubtsov is just not as good as these guys. Of course, he is a solid prospect, and I hope he'll become a good 2C in the NHL. He's more like Kamenev, who's started to look very well in the AHL.

 

[briererocks]

It looks like Rangers fans think, that Buchnevich is an ok NHLer, and he's just 21 and came from the KHL.

If you don't know him, I suggest you to remember another name, Kirill Kaprizov. He'll come to the NHL in a season, and become an immediate top6 on Minnesota.

Rubtsov is just not as good as these guys. Of course, he is a solid prospect, and I hope he'll become a good 2C in the NHL. He's more like Kamenev, who's started to look very well in the AHL.

Rubtsov right now is not as good as Kaprizov or Buchevenich and may never be as good as them.

The point people keep overlooking is how young Rubtsov is. He was one of the youngest players in the 2016 draft and just missed the 2017 draft. He is not physically capable of playing against men in the KHL right now. I think if he plays in the CHL he will be very good.

Just because he can't play in the KHL right now does not make him a less appealing prospect to me. I am not surprised at all at his struggles. That said, Buchevenich and Kaprizov are excellent prospects and there is no guarantee Rubtsov will be as good or better than them.

 

[Flynn84]

He was one of the youngest players in the 2016 draft and just missed the 2017 draft

No, he wasn't.

 

[briererocks]

No, he wasn't.

The birthday cutoff is September 15. Auston Matthews was one of the oldest players in the draft because his birthday is September 17, 1997. In contract, Rubtsov's birthday is June 27, 1998. I may have overstated things by stating he just missed the 2017 draft. But he is clearly one of the younger players in the 2016 NHL draft.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Well, I`m not saying it`s absolute, but I too would argue that because Russian players are not taught to dump and chase, and CHLers are not taught to slow down and play 5 man possession entries, that Russian prospects end up being well behind the curve and fan out, losing confidence and interest. Forechecking is a skill, that is easier to teach in the NHL where it`s not the only option. I look at a guy like Panarin and he is slowly adding a dump/chase/board battle element to his game, but his NHL success came from literally everything else. The NA game is a supplement rather than a culture shock.

Well it certainly doesn't hurt playing with Patrick Kane and playing center is a much more difficult position to play. Frankly playing in the CHL for half a year the going back to the K a little stronger from a good summer of training with some firsthand knowledge of the North American game is highly unlikely to stunt his development.

 

[Zine]

Yeah, at this point it just seems like a rough situation no matter what he decides, but given the circumstances he's probably better off pursuing actual ice-time and some semblance of development in North America.

Rough situation, huh? Rubtsov is fine. In fact I have yet to hear a single compelling argument at to how his development is being stalled. Right now Rubtsov is:
1. getting plenty of ice time and is the 'go-to' guy on his team in the MHL.
2. although his ice time is limited, he simultaneously he get's to experience games and practice with guys at the 2nd highest level of hockey on the planet.
3. he gets to participate in numerous junior exhibitions and tournaments under Valery Bragin.

I mean yea I can see why it might be a let down for him (and maybe the Flyers) he isn't getting regular KHL duty, but let's not lose sight of the big picture.

 

[gifted88]

Rough situation, huh? Rubtsov is fine. In fact I have yet to hear a single compelling argument at to how his development is being stalled. Right now Rubtsov is:
1. getting plenty of ice time and is the 'go-to' guy on his team in the MHL.
2. although his ice time is limited, he simultaneously he get's to experience games and practice with guys at the 2nd highest level of hockey on the planet.
3. he gets to participate in numerous junior exhibitions and tournaments under Valery Bragin.

I mean yea I can see why it might be a let down for him (and maybe the Flyers) he isn't getting regular KHL duty, but let's not lose sight of the big picture.

He's getting plenty of limited ice-time?

Which is it?

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

He's getting plenty of limited ice-time?

Which is it?

I think the poster meant that he gets a lot of ice time with his MHL team but gets limited ice time at the KHL level.

 

[Les Averman]

He's getting plenty of limited ice-time?

Which is it?

He clearly says that he's getting plenty of ice time at the MHL but less at the KHL. No need to jump down his throat for it.

That being said, I don't quite agree with the narrative that there's not a problem with the way his season is unfolding currently. In the games that he plays in, yes, he's getting good playing time in the MHL. But he's only gotten about 15 games at that level and he's playing about 5 minutes when he gets called back up to the KHL. In the same way that the culture shock could hypothetically stunt his development, it could just easily hurt his development to be on one team for 2 games, back to another for a couple of games and so on. There's no continuity to your coaching, to your line mates, practice schedule, etc.

I really don't see how it can be argued that it's a good situation that he's leaving or that he's ruining his career. There are certainly some risks in leaving to go to the CHL mid-season but the continuity, regular ice time and talent around him, will be beneficial for him over the course of the season and will be helpful for his acclimation to North America in the long run. The amount of time that he'll be in Canada will be similar to a normal college student who studies abroad for 4-5 months. It doesn't appear that he's planning on staying over for good but at least is for this season.

 

[Rebels57]

So glad Rubstov is getting away from that team. Way too much ******* around with them.

 

[gwh]

So how are you liking his tournament so far? 0+0 and 0 shots on goal. By far the weakest forward on the team.


Summary:

* Zero successful euros for Philly since year 2002 (Pitkanen)

* Rubstov should be blowing up in this tournament, but won't be.

* Rubstov should be blowing up in Russian Juniors, but he barely is.

* Please watch his WJC games and decide for yourself whether this kid is going to make it or not.

 

[whlscowt]

So how are you liking his tournament so far? 0+0 and 0 shots on goal. By far the weakest forward on the team.



Summary:

* Zero successful euros for Philly since year 2002 (Pitkanen)

* Rubstov should be blowing up in this tournament, but won't be.

* Rubstov should be blowing up in Russian Juniors, but he barely is.

* Please watch his WJC games and decide for yourself whether this kid is going to make it or not.

He's an 18 year old coming back from an injury on a predominately 19 year old team, getting limited offensive opportunities. Very few 18 year olds even make a Bragin coached team.

Since you're trying to use Kaprizov (who's a helluva player) as an example of why Rub is struggling, Kaprizov wasn't exactly lighting up the tournament in his 18 year old season either where he had 1 goal, 2 assists (All 3 points came on the PP and 1 was secondary assist on the PP against Belarus), none of which were scored after the round robin - it's foolish and short sighted to look at a single tournament in assessing a player, especially at the junior level where a different style of play proves more beneficial-- it's why WJC elite like Schroeder, Filatov, and Hodgson couldn't stick in the NHL. I mean, if Rubtsov scores 4 points through the rest of the tournament are going to say he's a better player than Kap? No because it's foolish to assess a player like this. Look at what he's bringing on a shift by shift basis, is he playing the right way? How is his skillset?

I'm certain if Rubtsov was getting PP ice time he'd be on the scoresheet, because while he hasn't done anything prolific he's played quietly okay and has displayed a great toolkit--he's a great skater, plays a good two way game, and has shown very polished game along the boards. For the opportunities he has gotten he's been okay.

Nothing to worry about.

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

Youngest player on Russian team playing 4th line minutes and PK duties.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Not a fan of Rubtsov, but it's just two games and a limited role. Nobody expects a lot of points from him, but he doesn't look good defensively as well. I hope he'll improve his game, he's considered a future 2-way beast after all.

 

[gwh]

He's an 18 year old coming back from an injury on a predominately 19 year old team, getting limited offensive opportunities. Very few 18 year olds even make a Bragin coached team.

Since you're trying to use Kaprizov (who's a helluva player) as an example of why Rub is struggling, Kaprizov wasn't exactly lighting up the tournament in his 18 year old season either where he had 1 goal, 2 assists (All 3 points came on the PP and 1 was secondary assist on the PP against Belarus), none of which were scored after the round robin - it's foolish and short sighted to look at a single tournament in assessing a player, especially at the junior level where a different style of play proves more beneficial-- it's why WJC elite like Schroeder, Filatov, and Hodgson couldn't stick in the NHL. I mean, if Rubtsov scores 4 points through the rest of the tournament are going to say he's a better player than Kap? No because it's foolish to assess a player like this. Look at what he's bringing on a shift by shift basis, is he playing the right way? How is his skillset?

I'm certain if Rubtsov was getting PP ice time he'd be on the scoresheet, because while he hasn't done anything prolific he's played quietly okay and has displayed a great toolkit--he's a great skater, plays a good two way game, and has shown very polished game along the boards. For the opportunities he has gotten he's been okay.

Nothing to worry about.

This is exactly what I was saying in October. There is nothing to see there.

Check Florida's Borgstrom for another oddity. 1st rounder, why exactly?

 

[PALE PWNR]

So how are you liking his tournament so far? 0+0 and 0 shots on goal. By far the weakest forward on the team.



Summary:

* Zero successful euros for Philly since year 2002 (Pitkanen)

* Rubstov should be blowing up in this tournament, but won't be.

* Rubstov should be blowing up in Russian Juniors, but he barely is.

* Please watch his WJC games and decide for yourself whether this kid is going to make it or not.

Luca Sbisa? Andreas Nodl? Oskars Bartulis? I mean they are varying degrees of success but I'd consider anyone who makes it to an NHL team and sticks for a while to be successful. Let's not ignore that their current #1 D's last name is Provorov.

 

[Psuhockey]

Not a fan of Rubtsov, but it's just two games and a limited role. Nobody expects a lot of points from him, but he doesn't look good defensively as well. I hope he'll improve his game, he's considered a future 2-way beast after all.

He's barely played this year compared to other junior prospects. He getting very little minutes if any in the KHL and has only played a handful of games in the MHL. This year has been terrible for his development, which is unfortunate as the post draft year is usually when a prospect takes his biggest step forward. Hextall himself was just quoted a few weeks ago sounding frustrated saying he has to play. It's not a good situation for Rubtsov.

 

[gwh]

Luca Sbisa? Andreas Nodl? Oskars Bartulis? I mean they are varying degrees of success but I'd consider anyone who makes it to an NHL team and sticks for a while to be successful. Let's not ignore that their current #1 D's last name is Provorov.

Provorov doesn't count since he was drafted from Canada.

2002 is the last Philly drafted successful european player that was not in NA on draft year. I think i might have made a list of the misses, but not sure if I posted it.

 

[Tripod]

Vorobyov didn't even make Russia last years san 18 year old....and is tied for 2nd in scoring this year . Is he going to be better than those with less points? You know, because points are what matters.

As others said, he is 18 on a team that relies on 19 year olds. Next year he will likely be the #1 C.

 

[mja]

* Zero successful euros for Philly since year 2002 (Pitkanen)

The last time the Flyers took a European player playing in Europe with a first round pick was Pitkanen. Before Pitkanen? We're talking Peter Forsberg. Do you know how many 2nd round picks they've used on European players from European leagues since they drafted since Forsberg? 4. And that includes Robert Hagg who's currently in the AHL. So in 26 years the Flyers have drafted a grand total of 6 European players out of Europe in the first two rounds, including Peter Forsberg, Janne Niinimaa, and Joni Pitkanen, with Bodrov capable of playing in the NHL but instead choosing to carve out a long career in the KHL instead. Obviously they're not going to have a huge track record of drafting successful European players outside of Canadian junior hockey if they never actually draft any.

But it's hard to argue with their overall strategy, the Flyers have focused heavily on the CHL since forever, particularly the OHL & the Q, and it's worked out nicely for them. Boucher, Zubrus, Gagne, Williams, Woywitka, Carter, Richards, Downie, Giroux, Sbisa, Couturier, Laughton, Morin, Sanheim, Provorov, & Konecny were all drafted out of the CHL with 1st round picks in the last 22 years who have / will very likely play 100+ games in the NHL. The only guy that was a complete bust was a goalie - Maxime Ouellet - and even he got at least a cup of coffee in the NHL.