Toggle sidebar

C German Rubtsov (2016, 22nd, PHI)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Atas2000 said:
The Flyers will have a 2C prospect become a tarade bait for 7th round picks. If Flyers are behind tis encouraging him to come to NA they are shooting themselves in the leg, if they don't and it's Rubtsov's idea all along then Rubtsov is butchering his development by himself. Either way Flyers lose a valuable prospect and can move on.
Click to expand...

Well that's quite the dramatic prediction. :laugh:

I really don't care where he develops, Canada or Russia, but it's not like coming to NA is a death sentence for him.

Provorov developed in NA and he's doing great. Are some players hurt by coming over too soon? Sure, maybe, but it's not an automatic guarantee.


Fantomas said:
You are basing "alright" on very limited information. Kucherov was alright because his wealthy parents were based in North America and he already spoke very good English.

Most Russian prospects are not like Kucherov. They experience significant cultural shock.
Click to expand...

Then let him experience the culture shock in a less stressful environment instead of when he's going straight to the NHL. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Fantomas said:
You are basing "alright" on very limited information. Kucherov was alright because his wealthy parents were based in North America and he already spoke very good English.

Most Russian prospects are not like Kucherov. They experience significant cultural shock.
Click to expand...

No he didn't, not very much at least. He did interviews through a translator when he arrived in North America. He picked it up decently quickly though and speaks it well now. He was very mature and definitely helped that his parents were based in North America for a while but he stayed back in Russia and didn't really speak English. Sven Andrighetto helped him a lot during his year in the Q to learn English.

As I mentioned earlier, perhaps Rubtsov feels comfortable in North America through the Canada-Russia series. He'll also have Dmitri Zhukenov with him there which could help the transition. I'm aware that not every Russia prospect is Kucherov, but not everyone fails to make the transition either.
 
So he couldn't make the KHL, I'm not surprised at all, it's not easy. And as to Kaprizov vs Rubtsov arguments, now it's obvious who's a better prospect.
 
Hope Rubrsov will join the Chicoutimi after WJC. He will be on the right way and it will be good decision for the Flyers organization. If he will stay in Russia with few minutes in KHL under stupid coach Belov - it will be waste pick
 
at the same age kuch was a 2 ppg player in the mhl and the league itself was much older. rubtsov is nowhere close to him. he'd stay put and play in the mhl.
 
kp61c said:
at the same age kuch was a 2 ppg player in the mhl and the league itself was much older. rubtsov is nowhere close to him. he'd stay put and play in the mhl.
Click to expand...

Yup... because Vityazi of 2016-17 and Krasnaya of 2011-12 can be compared.

Rubtsov wishes he had the wingers from Krasnaya's 3rd line that season on Vityazi this year...

Gusev, Plotnikov, Tolchinsky, Lyubimov, Prokhorkin, Kugryshev...

The best Rubtsov has had is fellow 18 year old Ivanyuzenkov, and he was not healthy for every game Rubtsov was on the team. And Dzhioshvili, pretty much the only other decent forward (at this point for an MHLer) who has spent time with them this year was only on roster for three games when Rubtsov was.

Not directly comparing Kucherov and Rubtsov ofc... if Rubtsov ends up 2/3's of the player Kucherov is I would be happy.
 
Last edited:
Atas2000 said:
Have you really just compared Kucherov and Rubtsov?:laugh:

Kucherov was the best prospect of 2-3 birth years. Maybe Kucherov would be an even better player now if he stayed in Russia for another year or two, but we'll never know. But comparing him to a prospect never projected to be at least among the top3 in his age group is silly. Those ususally take much longer to develop and need more caution. And caution is what goes overboard when they start jumping to NA and back at this age. 99% of them become worse players afterwards. Ask Kucherov's former linemate and a guy picked much higher at the draft Grigorenko.
Click to expand...

Kucherov was a late 2nd rd pick who had a total of 6 career KHL points before moving to the QMJHL ...
 
Atas2000 said:
The Flyers will have a 2C prospect become a tarade bait for 7th round picks. If Flyers are behind tis encouraging him to come to NA they are shooting themselves in the leg, if they don't and it's Rubtsov's idea all along then Rubtsov is butchering his development by himself. Either way Flyers lose a valuable prospect and can move on.
Click to expand...

One of the dumbest things I have read on here. Congrats.
 
daa5250 said:
One of the dumbest things I have read on here. Congrats.
Click to expand...

Seriously, no doubt.

The idea this kid is ruining his development because he's coming to the best developmental league in the world is ridiculous. Nowhere has produced more NHLers than the CHL. That includes Europeans of all stripes, Canadians and Americans. Get a grip.
 
As a general rule the CHL ruins Russian forwards. But it's not 100%.

I think Scherbak actually benefited, he was doing nothing in Russia. The CHL didn't seem to harm Kucherov and Radulov.
Can't think of many more guys who went to CHL and lived up to expectation though, and there's been a lot of high end guys who tried.
 
Last edited:
Zine said:
As a general rule the CHL ruins Russian forwards. But it's not 100%.

I think Scherbak actually benefited, he was doing nothing in Russia. The CHL didn't seem to harm Kucherov and Radulov.
Can't think of many more guys who went to CHL and lived up to expectation though, and there's been a lot of high end guys who tried.
Click to expand...
chl has nothing to do with kuch's development. he's a mhl product. rads was just too good to be ruined. the chl is a graveyard of russian players
 
brandonholmes said:
Seriously, no doubt.

The idea this kid is ruining his development because he's coming to the best developmental league in the world is ridiculous. Nowhere has produced more NHLers than the CHL. That includes Europeans of all stripes, Canadians and Americans. Get a grip.
Click to expand...

There's no problem with the CHL, the CHL is great at producing NHLers. This is a Russian problem. More specifically, there exists a huge gap between NA and Russian cultures (hockey cultures as well), and the transition from Russia to NA is A LOT for a young person to handle.

Let's turn this around.
The Russian system produces some seriously talented finesse forwards. But I similarly wouldn't advise a skilled Canadian kid to develop in Russia. I mean what % of Canadian kids would properly develop if they were dropped in the middle of, say, Magnitogorsk at age 15-19 having to deal with a different language, life culture, hockey culture, training regiment, training focus, etc? I'd say most Canadian kids would be ruined also.
 
Last edited:
Zine said:
As a general rule the CHL ruins Russian forwards. But it's not 100%.

I think Scherbak actually benefited, he was doing nothing in Russia. The CHL didn't seem to harm Kucherov and Radulov.
Can't think of many more guys who went to CHL and lived up to expectation though, and there's been a lot of high end guys who tried.
Click to expand...
I think it is important to mention, the three names you mentioned all spent 2 years or less in the CHL, which would be the case with Rubtsov. I think some of these kids that come over before they turn 18 and end up playing 3 seasons of junior hockey may be effected the most. In a lot of cases with imports, playing in a junior league for 3 consecutive years is too much.

Rubtsov isn't obligated to play in the CHL next year. He can move on if he is ready.
 
Fantomas said:
You are basing "alright" on very limited information. Kucherov was alright because his wealthy parents were based in North America and he already spoke very good English.

Most Russian prospects are not like Kucherov. They experience significant cultural shock.
Click to expand...

Title clearly states he's German :help:

Just because he plays in Russia doesn't mean he's Russian.
 
So far that CHL rumor doesn't sound too convincing, imo. Especially the "after Christmas" part, since you'd expect Rubtsov to be at the WJC at that time.
 
Zine said:
There's no problem with the CHL, the CHL is great at producing NHLers. This is a Russian problem. More specifically, there exists a huge gap between NA and Russian cultures (hockey cultures as well), and the transition from Russia to NA is A LOT for a young person to handle.

Let's turn this around.
The Russian system produces some seriously talented finesse forwards. But I similarly wouldn't advise a skilled Canadian kid to develop in Russia. I mean what % of Canadian kids would properly develop if they were dropped in the middle of, say, Magnitogorsk at age 15-19 having to deal with a different language, life culture, hockey culture, training regiment, training focus, etc? I'd say most Canadian kids would be ruined also.
Click to expand...

Good point, but I think it's definitely not one of those things you can make a blanket statement about. Some individuals love the adventure. Some don't have the same sentimental attachments to home, others come from bad homes, or good homes -- or have zero language obtaining skills. Everyone's different. This is why some kids like Provorov come over and do so well. If Rubtsov and his agent thinks he's the kind of person who could handle it, then coming over isn't going to ruin him.
 
Zine said:
As a general rule the CHL ruins Russian forwards. But it's not 100%.

I think Scherbak actually benefited, he was doing nothing in Russia. The CHL didn't seem to harm Kucherov and Radulov.
Can't think of many more guys who went to CHL and lived up to expectation though, and there's been a lot of high end guys who tried.
Click to expand...

I'd say it's not about leagues, it's about kids. The most talented Russian kids are usually KHL ready at age 17 or even younger (Tarasenko). Of course, if you're can be a KHL regular, you chose to be a KHL regular, because it's a totally different money. I mean, you can make probably 10 times more in the KHL. Or 100 times more, it's hard to say.

But kids like Svechnikov Sr., Scherbak, Sokolov, Abramov, Bobylyov (another example) and many more, they didn't have any chances to play in the KHL untill the age 19-20 or even older, so for them CHL looked like a better choice, than MHL/VHL.

And because kids like them don't actually have an elite talent, they bust pretty often, and people keep saying they are ruined.

Guys like Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Buchnevich, Kaprizov, they are different. They are elite and will be (or already are) big stars, that's why they could make the KHL being young kids.

Kucherov is kinda an exception, because he couldn't make the KHL (or wasn't given a proper chance by dumb****s in CSKA management), and got to the NHL through CHL/AHL. But he wasn't a CHL/AHL product at all, and he could probably play in the KHL young enough under right circumstances.

There are guys like Panarin or Gusev, who didn't care about NA way and chose to stay in Russia. Panarin is already an NHL star and Gusev will probably become one.

So I'd say it's not about leagues, it's about kids and their talent. The most talented Russian players usually stay in Russia and come to NHL from KHL as not just ready regulars, but stars.
 
Craig Fischer said:
Good point, but I think it's definitely not one of those things you can make a blanket statement about. Some individuals love the adventure. Some don't have the same sentimental attachments to home, others come from bad homes, or good homes -- or have zero language obtaining skills. Everyone's different. This is why some kids like Provorov come over and do so well. If Rubtsov and his agent thinks he's the kind of person who could handle it, then coming over isn't going to ruin him.
Click to expand...

This.

I think it's fine to acknowledge that there will be challenges ahead but to pretend that he's somehow ruining his development given his situation with Vityaz seems to be missing the forest for the trees. He will most certainly have difficulties but he's not really in the best situation to begin with.
 
Last edited:
Juicy Pop said:
This.

I think it's fine to acknowledge that there will be challenges ahead but to pretend that he's somehow ruining his development given his situation with Vityaz seems to be missing the forest of the trees. He will most certainly have difficulties but he's not really in the best situation to begin with.
Click to expand...

He's exactly in the same situation, as Guryanov was the last year. He just isn't KHL ready, so he should try something different.
 
Juicy Pop said:
And even though we'll never know you're just going to assume that it's the case otherwise your premise is faulty.
Click to expand...

That's how you are allowed to live with your prejudice(CHL ist goood, MHL is baaad). Because a player can't develop in two places at the same time.

Facts are all russian star players developed in Russia instead of CHL/AHL. Yes. Kucherov too, before somebody jumps out of nowhere with this stupidity again.And the CHL/AHL produced a number of busts so far.

If you want Rubtsov to become a bust...
 
You'd think the KHL would be a better league if the Russians were as good as you're saying at developing Russian players....


Interesting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom