C Frederik Gauthier (2013, 21st, TOR)

[Warden of the North]

You never draft players like him in the first round.

You draft the high skill players like Mantha, Burkakovsky, Zadorov, Theodore, Shinkaruk, Poirer, etc.

Gauthier type players would be a good 3rd round/great 4th round pick. Drafting a 3rd line ceiling guy with a mid first is just terrible management and one of the reasons why the Leafs have sucked for so long.

Lets say he hits his ceiling and becomes a 3C...so what? You can pick up decent 3/4Cs for late picks or in free agency anyways. Would also like to know how he's "great at possession"?

History of the NHL draft says this is wrong.

 

[WilliamNylander]

History of the NHL draft says this is wrong.

Just take a look at the smart teams who always have later picks but still find huge gems in the draft. They never draft 4th line players with a 3rd line ceiling.

They go for high skill guys and that is why they are the good teams. Just take a look at the 2010-2014 drafts and see the kind of player that ANA,CHI, STL, LAK, PIT, MTL,TB,NYI,BOS,DET etc. draft.

 

[CowbellConray]

Jay mcclament clone is his potential. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Not the best pick but he will be an NHL player

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

He's not a goal scorer, but rather a defensive Center. This is not a player you evaluate by point totals and will most definitely make the NHL. He is elite at the defensive end of the ice.

Most good defensive forwards in the NHL were good scorers in junior/college/overseas. Looks at guys like Jay Pandolfo, John Madden, Samuel Pahlsson, Boyd Gordon, PJ Axelsson.

You don't draft a third liner in the Q with the hope they become a third liner in the NHL with a high pick.

As it stands, Gauthier looks much closer to Colton Gillies than the names I mentioned.

Toronto was obviously hoping for offensive progression from his rookie Q season and it hasn't happened.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Just take a look at the smart teams who always have later picks but still find huge gems in the draft. They never draft 4th line players with a 3rd line ceiling.

They go for high skill guys and that is why they are the good teams. Just take a look at the 2010-2014 drafts and see the kind of player that ANA,CHI, STL, LAK, PIT, MTL,TB,NYI,BOS,DET etc. draft.

Correct, and often times those skill guys, if they don't hit their offensive potential, become the great defensive forwards.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Correct, and often times those skill guys, if they don't hit their offensive potential, become the great defensive forwards.

Sometimes it takes busting with an organization and realizing if they want to stick around in the NHL they will have to be really good defensively.

 

[Warden of the North]

Jay mcclament clone is his potential. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Not the best pick but he will be an NHL player

Hes much bigger then JayMc.

 

[FreeBird]

Using that logic we should just trade our 1st round pick (if not top 10) for a Daniel Winnik type every year.

With the Nashville pick the Leafs should be able to cement their 4th line for years to come. Gauthier and Biggs plus the pick.

 

[Aceboogie]

He's not a goal scorer, but rather a defensive Center. This is not a player you evaluate by point totals and will most definitely make the NHL. He is elite at the defensive end of the ice.

The issue is most 3rd line centers in the NHL were as good defensively as him in junior and put up much better junior #s

Its very hard, almost impossible, to be a 3c in the NHl if you can contribute offensively in some way. Even a guy like Mcclement was PPG + his final year and a 30 goal guy on some low scoring teams otherwise

The pick was a bit of a reach at the time as it was hoped hed improve his offensive numbers. But now its highly unlikely of a 3c, maybe a 4c/4th lien guy

Its the same for CHL shutdown D. People will say ones with under 25 points will be a solid 3rd pairing shutdown bruiser like Regher, but forget Regher scored at a good rate in junior, and that the only D to score under 15 points and become anything in the NHL is Hal gill

 

[ZeroPT*]

With the Nashville pick the Leafs should be able to cement their 4th line for years to come. Gauthier and Biggs plus the pick.

Biggs can't even cut it in the AHL. That pick was hilarious.

 

[Kelly]

With the Nashville pick the Leafs should be able to cement their 4th line for years to come. Gauthier and Biggs plus the pick.

I know this post is full out sarcasm -- but Biggs and Gauthier are classic examples of why teams like Toronto need to stop putting so much stock into size. Skill first and the size of person should be only looked at as a complimentary asset to have, no more.

Tyler Biggs @ the age of 21 can barely crack the AHL, and Gauthier can't stay PPG in junior. Obviously their career isn't done, but that doesn't bode well for the potential of any sort of value as an NHL player.

 

[LastWordArmy]

The issue is most 3rd line centers in the NHL were as good defensively as him in junior and put up much better junior #s

Its very hard, almost impossible, to be a 3c in the NHl if you can contribute offensively in some way.

The pick was a bit of a reach at the time as it was hoped hed improve his offensive numbers. But now its highly unlikely of a 3c, maybe a 4c/4th lien guy

Based on the numbers it wasn't a reach at the time... 60 points in 62 games as a 17 year old, who is 6'5" and has a good defensive game isn't a reach at 20. Most people have Lawson Crouse as a top 10 pick, and he has 48 in 53 right now. You expect offensive progression out of 17 year olds.... the problem is that you've gotten none in Gauthier, and thats the big issue numbers wise.

The other thing that is absolutely true thats been talked about in this thread is that most, not all, but most 3rd and 4th line NHL players were scoring at better than a PPG pace if they were still playing in the CHL at age 19.

 

[FreeBird]

I know this post is full out sarcasm -- but Biggs and Gauthier are classic examples of why teams like Toronto need to stop putting so much stock into size. Skill first and the size of person should be only looked at as a complimentary asset to have, no more.

Tyler Biggs @ the age of 21 can barely crack the AHL, and Gauthier can't stay PPG in junior. Obviously their career isn't done, but that doesn't bode well for the potential of any sort of value as an NHL player.

Looks like a long rebuild with nothing in the bank going forward and nothing at the NHL level that you can hang your Hat on.

 

[Aceboogie]

I know this post is full out sarcasm -- but Biggs and Gauthier are classic examples of why teams like Toronto need to stop putting so much stock into size. Skill first and the size of person should be only looked at as a complimentary asset to have, no more.

Tyler Biggs @ the age of 21 can barely crack the AHL, and Gauthier can't stay PPG in junior. Obviously their career isn't done, but that doesn't bode well for the potential of any sort of value as an NHL player.

Oilers have the same issue, swap Biggs for Moroz and add in 15 picks from drafts before of pure coke machines *cough* Cam Abney

Based on the numbers it wasn't a reach at the time... 60 points in 62 games as a 17 year old, who is 6'5" and has a good defensive game isn't a reach at 20. Most people have Lawson Crouse as a top 10 pick, and he has 48 in 53 right now. You expect offensive progression out of 17 year olds.... the problem is that you've gotten none in Gauthier, and thats the big issue numbers wise.

The other thing that is absolutely true thats been talked about in this thread is that most, not all, but most 3rd and 4th line NHL players were scoring at better than a PPG pace if they were still playing in the CHL at age 19.

Perhaps reach was the wrong word, a hope pick. You pick a stud defensive player and hope they find the offensive touch. I think there was better options at the time, but a early second rounder or 28th on would be a better spot in that draft. I am not high on Crouse for the exact reason. IMO he is Benoit Pouliout v2

 

[Passchendaele]

He's not a goal scorer, but rather a defensive Center. This is not a player you evaluate by point totals and will most definitely make the NHL. He is elite at the defensive end of the ice.

Most NHL grinders were better in the CHL. Ian Laperriere was an offensive wizard in the Q. Kirk Maltby and Darren McCarty both scored 50 goals. If you want more recent examples, Helm scored 41 goals in the WHL a couple of years ago and Maxime Talbot was a 100-point man.

What's worth worrying about as far as Gauthier is concerned isn't actual stats as they look now. It's the lack of progress in that department. He's basically scoring at the same pace he did when he was 17.

Again, it doesn't look good at all.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Most NHL grinders were better in the CHL. Ian Laperriere was an offensive wizard in the Q. Kirk Maltby and Darren McCarty both scored 50 goals. If you want more recent examples, Helm scored 41 goals in the WHL a couple of years ago and Maxime Talbot was a 100-point man.

What's worth worrying about as far as Gauthier is concerned isn't actual stats as they look now. It's the lack of progress in that department. He's basically scoring at the same pace he did when he was 17.

Again, it doesn't look good at all.

Correct.

It's because being a good defensive player in the NHL actually requires quite a bit of skill. You need to skate well, be able to have some vision to turn the puck up ice quickly, the intelligence to make the right play, etc. Those traits will earn players points in juniors.

A guy who isn't producing in juniors likely lacks the basic skill needed to succeed in a defensive role in the NHL.

 

[LV*]

Looks like a long rebuild with nothing in the bank going forward and nothing at the NHL level that you can hang your Hat on.

you dont like mo rielly?

Correct.

It's because being a good defensive player in the NHL actually requires quite a bit of skill. You need to skate well, be able to have some vision to turn the puck up ice quickly, the intelligence to make the right play, etc. Those traits will earn players points in juniors.

A guy who isn't producing in juniors likely lacks the basic skill needed to succeed in a defensive role in the NHL.

In other words, you've never seen him play

 

[RyanOhReally]

He's been solid offensively at every level he's played in. Even at camps and pre season games he's done well. He really is a stud defensively though. He had like an 80% success rate on face-offs at the WJC this year. He'll block shots, play along the boards and score 5, 10 maybe 15 goals a season. Is he what you want to draft in the first round? No. But he's going to be an NHL player. He's a 3C/4C on a championship team.

McDavid/Strome/Marner
Kadri
Holland
Gauthier

Fantastic centre core if I do say so myself

 

[chunkylover53]

His skating/movement/speed will become a huge hindrance in the NHL, especially one that is getting faster. He doesn't have amazing hands or a great offensive game. I just don't see him becoming more than a 4th liner (and I'd think you would be happy if he became a NHL regular).

 

[BJD]

Just take a look at the smart teams who always have later picks but still find huge gems in the draft. They never draft 4th line players with a 3rd line ceiling.

They go for high skill guys and that is why they are the good teams. Just take a look at the 2010-2014 drafts and see the kind of player that ANA,CHI, STL, LAK, PIT, MTL,TB,NYI,BOS,DET etc. draft.

Chicago and Pitsburg are not good teams because of their drafts from 2010-2014

 

[Stacker29]

As long as he hits his elite defensive centre potential, the pick was fine. It'll be embarassing if the "safe" pick of Gauthier ends up a bust though...haha

As long as he's an effective PK guy, and sound reliable Faceoff man, the Leafs got what they wanted. Wouldn't have been my first choice at that pick, but on a playoff team a guy like him is needed. Hopefully he's part of a playoff team in Toronto in four years...

 

[WilliamNylander]

Honestly don't even think he'll be a 3C - just a 4C.

The NHL has moved away from "checking lines". Almost every team goes head to head with their top lines and used their 3rd line as a secondary scoring line. Tampa Bay has done this magnificently.

If Gauthier can't develop his offense he will not play on the 3rd line of a good team.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

He's been solid offensively at every level he's played in. Even at camps and pre season games he's done well. He really is a stud defensively though. He had like an 80% success rate on face-offs at the WJC this year. He'll block shots, play along the boards and score 5, 10 maybe 15 goals a season. Is he what you want to draft in the first round? No. But he's going to be an NHL player. He's a 3C/4C on a championship team.

McDavid/Strome/Marner
Kadri
Holland
Gauthier

Fantastic centre core if I do say so myself

About average. Better than average if you get McDavid though.

 

[ottawah]

Not even a PPG player in his final Jr. season playing on the best team in the Q.. looks bad.

I was more concerned over the fact his PPG fell every season. When drafted he was a first year player they said was raw offensively and would improve. not so much.

 

[Gavy]

Officially on the ignore list, every post is a sarcastic remark that provides no substance to the discussion.

He will be my first on my ignore list.
Can't stand reading anything he writes