C Elias Pettersson - Timra IK, Allsvenskan (2017, 5th, VAN)

[covfefe]

3 of the top 10 scoring players in the league weigh in the 170s. He will obviously need to add those 10 pounds before he plays in the NHL. He's also showing a level of skill we have not seen from a draft eligible player in the Allsvenskan. From there, I think you have to ask the question of what is easier - adding weight, or adding skill?

 

[RoadWarrior]

3 of the top 10 scoring players in the league weigh in the 170s. He will obviously need to add those 10 pounds before he plays in the NHL. He's also showing a level of skill we have not seen from a draft eligible player in the Allsvenskan. From there, I think you have to ask the question of what is easier - adding weight, or adding skill?

For some players like Mitch Marner it's adding weight. Petterssen's brother is only 176 lbs at age 23 so it may always be an issue for him.

 

[AD1066]

Panarin, Kucherov, Giroux, Zetterberg, Granlund, Gaudreau, Marner, Pastranak, Arvidsson, Guentzel; all players who are on the lighter side and/or are generously listed as being heavier than they likely are.

Granted Pettersson may be on the extreme side but he has good height and I'm fairly confident a NA training regimen could help him reach an acceptable playing weight.
It's surprising to me that this is still a big discussion in today's NHL. Speed and skill trump all nowadays.

 

[GetFocht]

Panarin, Kucherov, Giroux, Zetterberg, Granlund, Gaudreau, Marner, Pastranak, Arvidsson, Guentzel; all players who are on the lighter side and/or are generously listed as being heavier than they likely are.

Granted Pettersson may be on the extreme side but he has good height and I'm fairly confident a NA training regimen could help him reach an acceptable playing weight.
It's surprising to me that this is still a big discussion in today's NHL. Speed and skill trump all nowadays.

I'm not arguing that skill and speed trump everything but his frame reminds me of Phil Larsen. He's one solid hit away from being injured in the NHL. He will also have to persevere through the playoffs which is a much more gritty game.

 

[covfefe]

For some players like Mitch Marner it's adding weight. Petterssen's brother is only 176 lbs at age 23 so it may always be an issue for him.

I agree completely, but my point is that he remains subject to the laws of nature and will be able to add mass if he maintains (ideally for as many months as possible) a caloric surplus combined with strength training. He will never be 200 pounds but playing in the 170s is entirely realistic, and many proven NHLers fall into that weight class.

I have no question that it will be unusual to see a player who is 6'2 and just 170. But I just don't see how the slight frame outweighs the elite skillset this guy brings. The frame is something that you can work at and improve. The hands, vision, IQ, poise, that's preternatural. Turris had the same frame +/- 5 pounds btw

 

[GetFocht]

I agree completely, but my point is that he remains subject to the laws of nature and will be able to add mass if he maintains (ideally for as many months as possible) a caloric surplus combined with strength training. He will never be 200 pounds but playing in the 170s is entirely realistic, and many proven NHLers fall into that weight class.

I have no question that it will be unusual to see a player who is 6'2 and just 170. But I just don't see how the slight frame outweighs the elite skillset this guy brings. The frame is something that you can work at and improve. The hands, vision, IQ, poise, that's preternatural. Turris had the same frame +/- 5 pounds btw

Turris is one inch shorter and weights at 190 pounds.

No he does not have the same frame.

 

[AD1066]

Turris is one inch shorter and weights at 190 pounds.

No he does not have the same frame.

The old draft prospect profile pages on Hockey's Future and NHL.com had Turris at 6'0-6'1 and 170lbs.

Maybe Pettersson never becomes a center with his frame, but a highly skilled winger isn't a bad consolation prize. I see what you're saying with respect to injury concerns but it's impossible to know how things will play out, with plenty of smaller guys succeeding in today's league, and where my team is drafting (DET - 9), I'd happily gamble on upside over the complimentary pieces we have plenty of.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Turris is one inch shorter and weights at 190 pounds.

No he does not have the same frame.

Turris was 170 when drafted - which I doubt, but was the listing - and as early as a few years ago, often ended the season close to 170. Turris had a helluva time keeping weight on during the season up until a few years ago as he would lose over 10 lbs between August and April.

It was one of the reasons he really wasn't ready for a meaningful roll in the NHL until his 20's.

If anything, Pettersson's frame might be better.

 

[VictorLustig]

Rumours says he is 220 lbs now.

Size is certainly an issue.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

What is a "frame" exactly? Is this a medical or scientific thing? Like has it been shown somewhere that a small "frame" leads to impaired muscle or weight gain? Or is this just our sewing circle folk wisdom as seasoned hockey fans?

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

What is a "frame" exactly? Is this a medical or scientific thing? Like has it been shown somewhere that a small "frame" leads to impaired muscle or weight gain? Or is this just our sewing circle folk wisdom as seasoned hockey fans?

Bone structure is what people are referring too. Some people seem to think its impossible to add 20 lbs of muscle if your shoulders arent wide enough.

 

[Tryforthekingdom]

What is a "frame" exactly?

Generally used to refer to the size of a person's bones

Is this a medical or scientific thing?

Yep, people have different heights (obviously), have broader shoulders or narrower hips, and so on.

Like has it been shown somewhere that a small "frame" leads to impaired muscle or weight gain?


Nope. Some esthetic detriments, but luckily we're not on a bodybuilding forum.

Or is this just our sewing circle folk wisdom as seasoned hockey fans?

Pretty much

 

[GetFocht]

Exactly, rumours says he is 220 lbs now.

 

[covfefe]

Turris is one inch shorter and weights at 190 pounds.

No he does not have the same frame.

Well, I watched Turris in junior the year he was drafted and Pettersson looks quite similar to him from a physical standpoint. You're free to disagree with that, obviously.

Turris also did not weigh 190 when he was drafted nearly 10 years ago - a relatively crucial detail that you seem to have glossed over, given that we are talking about an impending draft prospect

Pettersson is not a finished product. Imagine what he could do with his skillset and 10 years of physical training and nutrition.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

Well, I watched Turris in junior the year he was drafted and Pettersson looks quite similar to him from a physical standpoint. You're free to disagree with that, obviously.

Turris also did not weigh 190 when he was drafted nearly 10 years ago - a relatively crucial detail that you seem to have glossed over, given that we are talking about an impending draft prospect

Pettersson is not a finished product. Imagine what he could do with his skillset and 10 years of physical training and nutrition.

Now that you mention it, I remember hearing that Turris was tiny in his draft year.

http://bchl.ca/mckeens-kyle-turris-feature

Turris has been working hard towards both goals. In the past 13 months he has gained 17 pounds and now tips the scales at 170 pounds.

That's from his draft year.

 

[bob27]

He'll never make it to NFL with that size.

 

[gretskidoo]

He'll never make it to NFL with that size.

Thankfully he's a hockey player.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Some (insane) stats on Elias Petterssons season.







That's almost 3.5 P/60 as a 17/18 yo in a low scoring Mens league, but yeah, don't draft him because he's lanky.

 

[Love]

Some (insane) stats on Elias Petterssons season.







That's almost 3.5 P/60 as a 17/18 yo in a low scoring Mens league, but yeah, don't draft him because he's lanky.

I honestly don't get it. He's firmly #3 on my list and lets just say he's a hell of a lot closer to being #2 than he is to being #4.

I have never seen a prospect so underrated like Pettersson is. His production this season was better than ANY draft eligible. His talent is so obvious that even his biggest critics can't deny it.

I've said it before but if he was 175, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he was the consensus #1 pick in the draft. The only thing anyone can say about him as a critique is he's skinny. Great, you have identified the thing that is probably the easiest fix of any weakness a young player can have.

I posted this about Pettersson in the Canucks draft thread:

It's almost as if Pettersson's one flaw is the most improvable aspect of any players game. You're too skinny? Work your ass off and gain weight and strength. You have low hockey IQ? Work your ass off and...? Low hockey IQ doesn't work like that, unfortunately.

Fortunately for Perttersson, he has tons of hockey IQ, compete level, and innate creativity/talent that can't be taught.

 

[VictorLustig]

I honestly don't get it. He's firmly #3 on my list and lets just say he's a hell of a lot closer to being #2 than he is to being #4.

I have never seen a prospect so underrated like Pettersson is. His production this season was better than ANY draft eligible. His talent is so obvious that even his biggest critics can't deny it.

I've said it before but if he was 175, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he was the consensus #1 pick in the draft. The only thing anyone can say about him as a critique is he's skinny. Great, you have identified the thing that is probably the easiest fix of any weakness a young player can have.

I posted this about Pettersson in the Canucks draft thread:

I'd say skating is also a concern, not a big one for me though. He also often gets caught when trying to make moves while standing still, again not a big concern for me but I'm guessing some scouts won't like it. His talent level is definitely world class.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

I honestly don't get it. He's firmly #3 on my list and lets just say he's a hell of a lot closer to being #2 than he is to being #4.

I have never seen a prospect so underrated like Pettersson is. His production this season was better than ANY draft eligible. His talent is so obvious that even his biggest critics can't deny it.

I've said it before but if he was 175, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he was the consensus #1 pick in the draft. The only thing anyone can say about him as a critique is he's skinny. Great, you have identified the thing that is probably the easiest fix of any weakness a young player can have.

I posted this about Pettersson in the Canucks draft thread:

I'm totally on board with you. He has the most easily corrected of any flaws a guy can have, but his ceiling is enormous. In a world where NHL teams act rationally, Pettersson goes top 3/4. But in this world, Pettersson is going to fall to somebody who shouldn't be able to get him because of hocus pocus like "small frame" and "narrow shoulders." The first NHL team to see through that will get rewarded.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

His skating is maybe only average, but he's already improved it from below-average not too long ago. And the weight think is such a non-issue. How many players are proper NHL playing weight at age 18?

I have him ranked as the #1 player in this draft. If he was playing in the CHL, I think others would think so as well.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

I'm totally on board with you. He has the most easily corrected of any flaws a guy can have, but his ceiling is enormous. In a world where NHL teams act rationally, Pettersson goes top 3/4. But in this world, Pettersson is going to fall to somebody who shouldn't be able to get him because of hocus pocus like "small frame" and "narrow shoulders." The first NHL team to see through that will get rewarded.

Agreed 100%. He is clearly in the top 5 for me and I'm really hoping that he falls to the Wings at the draft. He'd be an ideal piece for our rebuild and I have no doubt that he and Mantha would be a dynamic duo.

How someone can put up the stats he did with his skill set and not be considered a top 10 talent by some outlets is insane.

 

[Orca Smash]

Count me in as well, but very slim chance i see benning taking him at 5.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

I honestly don't get it. He's firmly #3 on my list and lets just say he's a hell of a lot closer to being #2 than he is to being #4.

I have never seen a prospect so underrated like Pettersson is. His production this season was better than ANY draft eligible. His talent is so obvious that even his biggest critics can't deny it.

I've said it before but if he was 175, I wouldn't at all be surprised if he was the consensus #1 pick in the draft. The only thing anyone can say about him as a critique is he's skinny. Great, you have identified the thing that is probably the easiest fix of any weakness a young player can have.

I posted this about Pettersson in the Canucks draft thread:

This, so much this...

And yeah, his skating isn't amazing but i think that ties into him being skinny, add some muscle on those legs and he'll be fine skating too, he already did improve his skating a lot for this season.