C Dylan Larkin (2014, 15th, DET)
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Heraldic
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- Dec 12, 2013
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Sure.
He really is. I think most fans would be disappointed if Larkin played the whole year in Detroit and only put up like ~20 points. As a prospect, it's harder to crack the Wings roster than any other team in the league, especially considering their current forward depth. He really only had a shot because of the Datsyuk and Helm injuries.
Heraldic
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It depends on the usage and linemates - and most importantly, how well the whole team does.
But if you think that points are all that matters, I really don't wonder your opinions.
Well thanks for bringing that up because Larkin's two-way game has been his calling card since day one.
I'm curious.. What do you think acceptable point totals for him would be this season if he plays the whole year and isn't put on the 4th line? What would he need to do to reach your expectations and hype?
Based on the hype and what I've seen from him in the preseason, 35-40 points minimum in my opinion. This is assuming he plays in the NHL the full year injury-free and is at least on the third line getting some PP time. He wouldn't be in the NHL if he wasn't getting at least that though.
It's not a rule, but it's been a well-known philosophy of the Wings for two and a half decades and anyone that has any semblance of knowledge about hockey prospects should know this. A teenager hasn't cracked the Wings opening day roster in 25 years.
Heraldic
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That's not either what I meant.
At WC was the closest NHL competition he has played... and his offense was non-existence. His offense mostly was rushing the puck after a quick transition. Nothing in his game indicated that he could control the pace of the game by possessing the puck, being able to be a dominant playmaker. He's more of a fast skating, strong straightforward guy. Offensively really dependent on the linemates (Hyman).
That's hardly a franchise-center, but a good center it can be. If Larkin becomes as impactful as Ryan O'Reilly, that's a really great outcome. Defensively elite and being able to produce offense roughly 60 points with dynamic, skilled linemate(s) when having tough matchups. But it isn't a franchise type of player until you have a really loose definition.
Talking about +70 points with toughest match-ups and elite defensive game is something that we didn't even see last season FROM ANYONE.
It's not written but I'm going to bet that very few, if any teams have gone 25 years without a teenager making the opening night lineup.
Fair expectations. I'm concerned there are too many people expecting him to challenge for the Calder and put up 60+points. That's just asking for people to be let down and unfair criticism put on Larkin.
It's a pretty well known fact that Detroit keeps their players down until they're over ready. The fact that a teenager hasn't made the opening night roster in 25 years should be all you need to know.
To be fair.. Judging a 19 year olds play at the WC when he was used entirely in a shut down 4th line role is going to lead to him looking weak offensively. He's definitely better offensively than he showed at the WC.
He played as a 4C. He was a checking line center and did it well.
This tells me all I need to know about your knowledge of Larkin. Look at Hyman's stats before playing with a freshman Larkin. 9 points in 41 games, 9 points in 38 games, 17 points in 35 games, and then all of a sudden he jumps to 54 points in 37 games as a senior with an 18 year old Larkin as his center? Hmmm.... I wonder what changed
Hyman benefited from Larkin, not the other way around. He has Larkin to thank for his chance at an NHL roster spot.
You basically just described Toews and Kopitar... The guys who have won the last five Cups as 1Cs. I'll take it, call it whatever you want.
drw02
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- Aug 10, 2013
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Excactly. Their drafting from first round (outside of maybe the last three years, and everyone of those guys are still magic beans) has been nothing spectacular from 2001. And you rarely get close to NHL-ready players after the first round.
Prospects making the team and having an impact +1 year from their draft is nothing out of ordinary. There are plenty of players who would have made an impact in Detroit's team and who were +1 year from their draft and who haven't been top-picks. From 2011 Couturier, from 2012 Hertl, Girgensons, from 2013 Horvat, Nichushkin, Lazar, Wennberg and Burakovsky. Those were just on the top of my head. None of them hardly is described as "franchise" and Larkin really isn't (yet) anything more special than any of them.
All this being said, Larkin is a very good prospect. At this point he seems like a guy who should have been taken earlier in the draft, but things might change. In many ways he reminds me a lot about Girgensons (after about 2 years after the draft he seemed better pick than F.Forsberg. Not sure anymore), who almost every Sabres fan and the management loves. They have similar strenghts and weaknesses as well.
But this talk about being a franchise guy that Buffalo would maybe now take instead of Reinhart is just getting really silly (and it really is a disfavor for Larkin himself, to be honest). I understand the excitement of having a surprisingly NHL-ready prospect in a long, long time. But it really isn't anything THAT special, when you have a little wider perspective league wise.
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And there really isn't anything to lose in giving him a spot at this moment. You have players (at least D) on IR and the worst casualty would be putting a stud like Cleary or Andersson to pressbox/waivers. If Larkin seems like needing some time in AHL, you can easily put him there anytime you want.
It's not silly at all. The Sabres may prefer to keep Reinhart in a redraft but Larkin's value and upside is right there with Reinhart and the Sabres would absolutely consider him.
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obey86
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- Jun 9, 2009
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Exactly.
Plenty of players can come into the NHL at a young age, play a limited role, and put up 20 points. That's not impressive to me. It's impressive if they come in at an early age and actually are an important part of the team and playing in important situations which more often than not leads to more than 20 points.
Most of that has to do with where the Wings draft. They usually have to go for project prospects that need the time. Guys like Nyquist, Tatar etc would have needed time with any team.
It's both. Nyquist would have spent time in the AHL, but not nearly as much time as he actually did on virtually any other team.
Heraldic
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- Dec 12, 2013
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That wasn't the only sample for me from Larkin. Sure, he didn't have an optimal role or linemates, but there was plenty of moments, where you really couldn't blame those factors. I really think that many didn't watch the games.
This tells me all I need to know about your knowledge of Larkin. Look at Hyman's stats before playing with a freshman Larkin. 9 points in 41 games, 9 points in 38 games, 17 points in 35 games, and then all of a sudden he jumps to 54 points in 37 games as a senior with an 18 year old Larkin as his center? Hmmm.... I wonder what changed
Hyman benefited from Larkin, not the other way around. He has Larkin to thank for his chance at an NHL roster spot.
Sure, and that was the reason it was Hyman who was a finalist for the Hobey Baker and not Larkin?
I happened to watch Michican last year (J.T Compher), and there is no doubt that Hyman was the guy offensively on that line. Larkin was nowhere close being a baggage or burden, though. He complemented Hyman well. Saying that Hyman's season was a product of Larkin only illustrates that you don't really know what you're talking about.
No I didn't. I may have described Ryan Kesler, Ryan O'Reilly or Patrice Bergeron. But not those guys.
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obey86
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Yeah. And? Not trying to be mean, just don't understand what you are trying to insinuate.
bert
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Its kinda funny, Larkin has a good camp and now he is better that the whole draft
If you look at the group of Bennett, Nylander, Ehlers, Reinhart, Larkin and L.D its going to take a few yrs to see who the best is.
Most people that watched him consistently prior to pre season had him as very elite. Go ahead and check the post history.
Sure, and that was the reason it was Hyman who was a finalist for the Hobey Baker and not Larkin?
I happened to watch Michican last year (J.T Compher), and there is no doubt that Hyman was the guy offensively on that line. Larkin was nowhere close being a baggage or burden, though. He complemented Hyman well. Saying that Hyman's season was a product of Larkin only illustrates that you don't really know what you're talking about.
It wasn't just at Michigan where Larkin displayed his offensive skills. He did it at the WJC (outproducing Eichel), in the AHL playoffs, and in this most recent preseason while matching up against guys like Toews, Bergeron, and Crosby. Granted, it was the preseason, but he displayed plenty of offensive skill which makes me question how much you actually watched U of M. He had one of the best offensive freshmen seasons of the last 25 years, beating out guys like Toews, Kessel, and Gaudreau, who are elite offensive players in the NHL. But yeah, sure, I'm the one that doesn't have a clue what I'm talking about.
Kesler and O'Reilly have put up 60 points once each in their careers. A consistent 60-70 point player playing up against the other team's best players is what Bergeron, Toews, and Kopitar are. Larkin definitely has that potential. I don't know why you include Bergeron in that group like there is some massive difference between him and Toews/Kopitar. He has shown that he can lead a team to a Cup as a 1C as well.
Holland runs the Detroit Red Wings. There's a great quote from Babs last season where he said something along the lines of Holland having two votes while he has one.
obey86
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Blashill said Larkin will likely be playing on a line with Zetterberg and Abdelkader.
Like I said, they aren't bringing him up with the expectation he is going to play a reduced role and put up ~20 points like most of the young guys that one poster listed. They are bringing him up and they want him to produce and be a big part of the team now. Time will tell how he performs.
Like I said, they aren't bringing him up with the expectation he is going to play a reduced role and put up ~20 points like most of the young guys that one poster listed. They are bringing him up and they want him to produce and be a big part of the team now. Time will tell how he performs.
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