C Connor McDavid - Erie Otters, OHL (2015 Draft) V

[daver]

Haha, I'm offended....what's with this "might be the biggest McDavid fanboy" . I'm quite aware of my Pierre McGuire to Tavares/Myers man crush. . However, the only other NHL player that was top 10 in scoring in the Q in 2004-2005 was Desharnais. No other player played significant games in the NHL or was a touted prospect. Compared to the OHL top 10 right now, it's not even close. The talent in the QMJHL then compared to the OHL nowadays is visibly weaker.

Three of the last four Memorial Cups disagree.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

6.38 goals per game in the QMJHL in 2004-05.
7 goals per game in OHL so far in 2014-15.

Crosby gets a slight advantage there, however, the OHL is a better overall league top to bottom.

 

[cupface52]

Three of the last four Memorial Cups disagree.

What do those memorial cup winners have to do with the depth of top end talent in the qmjhl 10 years ago. When Crosby was in the q, there was no other notable prospects playing, picard maybe but he was a flop. In 04-05 teams were able to send their top junior eligible players to the ahl, even further depleting the talent level of the league.

In Crosby's junior time, the q was getting what, 2-5 players drafted in the top 60? While there's been 8-12(?) players being drafted from the OHL yearly the past 2 years and likely this year as well.

 

[Halfy]

Three of the last four Memorial Cups disagree.

I meant 2004-2005 QMJHL compared to 2014-2015 OHL

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

The only ones isolating games are the ones who are pushing McDavid. Since when does barely half a season outrank a full season?

Crosby's body of work over his two junior seasons do not need isolation and frankly McDavid would need to score over 4PPG the rest of the year to even make this a reasonable argument.

Statistically, McDavid this year is closer to Crosby in his 16 year old season when league scoring levels are factored in.

Agreed.
Crosby probably has the best chl career in history. Back to back scoring titles. The youngest player ever to lead in scoring at 16. The only player every to win 2 Mvps and he did it back to back.

His draft year is top 3 all time

62-66-102-168 2.71 ppg(52 points over 2nd place and 60 over any non rimouski player)

In the playoffs he had
13-14-17-31 top scorer and playoff MVP

Then led the mem cup with
11 points in 5 games for a total of 210 points in 80 games.

Basically crosby is doing what mcdavid is doing now for double the games

 

[lawrence]

some think he's at his level some not, sure the stats don't really reflect but I don't think it matters. It's just like Stamkos 18 year old stats for example, its not as high as Kanes, but Stamkos in my opinion is the better player. So stats is really not everything.

are we really going to go back to 2008 and argue well, he didn't he come close to Patrick Kanes numbers so how is Stamkos better then Kane?


people getting caught up with numbers numbers numbers stats stats, get real guys. Stamkos doesn't need to put up Patrick Kane numbers to be as good or better then him at juniors. Stamkos scored 60 goals in one season.

the same with the McDavid vs Crosby, but to be honest, I don't think he will be as good crosby, that said, he will be the next great player in the NHL. consistently the best.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

some think he's at his level some not, sure the stats don't really reflect but I don't think it matters. It's just like Stamkos 18 year old stats for example, its not as high as Kanes, but Stamkos in my opinion is the better player. So stats is really not everything.

are we really going to go back to 2008 and argue well, he didn't he come close to Patrick Kanes numbers so how is Stamkos better then Kane?


people getting caught up with numbers numbers numbers stats stats, get real guys. Stamkos doesn't need to put up Patrick Kane numbers to be as good or better then him at juniors. Stamkos scored 60 goals in one season.

the same with the McDavid vs Crosby, but to be honest, I don't think he will be as good crosby, that said, he will be the next great player in the NHL. consistently the best.

Funny how much you rely on stats when you think it favors your argument, but then you are so quick to throw them under the bus when they contradict your argument.

Just in this thread, you post an infograph comparing McDavid's first 37 games to Crosby's, and use that as evidence of McDavid's superiority. And now this?

You're all over the place.

 

[daver]

I meant 2004-2005 QMJHL compared to 2014-2015 OHL

Based on what? The top prospects coming out of the OHL at the same time or a few years after like Tavares, Stamkos and Kane don't indicate that the OHL was a considerably stronger league.

 

[daver]

some think he's at his level some not, sure the stats don't really reflect but I don't think it matters. It's just like Stamkos 18 year old stats for example, its not as high as Kanes, but Stamkos in my opinion is the better player. So stats is really not everything.

are we really going to go back to 2008 and argue well, he didn't he come close to Patrick Kanes numbers so how is Stamkos better then Kane?


people getting caught up with numbers numbers numbers stats stats, get real guys. Stamkos doesn't need to put up Patrick Kane numbers to be as good or better then him at juniors. Stamkos scored 60 goals in one season.

the same with the McDavid vs Crosby, but to be honest, I don't think he will be as good crosby, that said, he will be the next great player in the NHL. consistently the best.

I think he's earned the "best prospect since Crosby" label who was arguably the best prospect since Mario, at least offensively, so it would be exceptionally difficult to unseat him statistically.

IMO, I wonder if his game will translate as well as Crosby's to the NHL where he won't have as much time and space as he is getting now.

 

[AD1066]

IMO, I wonder if his game will translate as well as Crosby's to the NHL where he won't have as much time and space as he is getting now.

I'm wondering the same thing. No doubt he will succeed with his talents but I'm curious what his playing style will look like at the next level.

Crosby's game seems tailor-made for the current NHL. Incredible lower body strength and puck protection, cycling down low and looking for the open man -- he looks like an ultra-skilled grinder at times. Of course he has all the other qualities, shot, skating, but in a fundamental sense his game can be very simple. He just does the simple and the routine better than anybody else.

I have trouble finding a comparison for McDavid but he reminds me of Kane at times in terms of his shiftiness. Maybe Kane + the explosive skating of a MacKinnon type player. But he seems to score a lot of goals just waltzing through the opposition. Ridiculous hands and skating allow him to build up a head of steam and just dipsy-doodle the puck through a defender's skates.

Even if his ceiling is a Crosby level, which I could believe, I don't think he'll dominate out of the gate like Crosby or Ovechkin did. Crosby having the lower body strength to be effective immediately, and Ovechkin being in my opinion the most naturally gifted player in the league. Might take him a few more seasons to build up his strength and fine-tune his game before reaching that level.

 

[daver]

I'm wondering the same thing. No doubt he will succeed with his talents but I'm curious what his playing style will look like at the next level.

Crosby's game seems tailor-made for the current NHL. Incredible lower body strength and puck protection, cycling down low and looking for the open man -- he looks like an ultra-skilled grinder at times. Of course he has all the other qualities, shot, skating, but in a fundamental sense his game can be very simple. He just does the simple and the routine better than anybody else.

I have trouble finding a comparison for McDavid but he reminds me of Kane at times in terms of his shiftiness. Maybe Kane + the explosive skating of a MacKinnon type player. But he seems to score a lot of goals just waltzing through the opposition. Ridiculous hands and skating allow him to build up a head of steam and just dipsy-doodle the puck through a defender's skates.

Even if his ceiling is a Crosby level, which I could believe, I don't think he'll dominate out of the gate like Crosby or Ovechkin did. Crosby having the lower body strength to be effective immediately, and Ovechkin being in my opinion the most naturally gifted player in the league. Might take him a few more seasons to build up his strength and fine-tune his game before reaching that level.

It will probably be year 4 or 5 before you could definitively state where he is in relation to Crosby. IMO, Crosby was as NHL ready as any prospect as ever been which may account for some of his ridiculous numbers in the CHL and his NHL start. One could argue Crosby should have reached a higher level than he did based on his junior career but injuries and the era he has played in may have prevented a season or two of clear domination. I also think its harder for elite talent to separate themselves from the pack on a relative basis compared to higher scoring eras.

Maybe McDavid does have similar skills but might take a more normal path of development to get there. Comparisons will always be tricky as the league evolves and to Crosby in particular as his peak has not been ahead of other players in his era but his prime or the ability to play at his peak is clearly superior.

I see McDavid as one who could put up a similar peak season but not have the consistency like a Malkin or OV.

 

[Apotheosis]

Funny how much you rely on stats when you think it favors your argument, but then you are so quick to throw them under the bus when they contradict your argument.

Just in this thread, you post an infograph comparing McDavid's first 37 games to Crosby's, and use that as evidence of McDavid's superiority. And now this?

You're all over the place.

Not even that, if I'm allowed to chime in here.

Crosby's last 25 games > Whatever McDavid will put up but on the flip side you can also counter (on McDavid's side) that he was scoring at a completely consistent 3 PPG level for the first 20 games of the season. The injury clearly slowed him down and he showed no sign of slowing down before the injury occurred. So it all comes down to preference. What seems more impressive? 86 points in 25 games or an extrapolated PPG of 204 points in 68 games for McDavid.

The people saying McDavid is Tavares/Stamkos tier make me laugh. He's clearly distinguished himself as a Crosby tier talent which is generational, yet he's now only Franchise? That's cutting him low here.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Not even that, if I'm allowed to chime in here.

Crosby's last 25 games > Whatever McDavid will put up but on the flip side you can also counter (on McDavid's side) that he was scoring at a completely consistent 3 PPG level for the first 20 games of the season. The injury clearly slowed him down and he showed no sign of slowing down before the injury occurred. So it all comes down to preference. What seems more impressive? 86 points in 25 games or an extrapolated PPG of 204 points in 68 games for McDavid.

The people saying McDavid is Tavares/Stamkos tier make me laugh. He's clearly distinguished himself as a Crosby tier talent which is generational, yet he's now only Franchise? That's cutting him low here.

He's absolutely above those guys IMO, but I'd still have him below Crosby. And while he hit a scoring slump coming out of the WJC, I don't think you can definitively say one way or another that he's scoring would have continued at the same rate without the injury.

 

[golgoXIII]

I think i'll be a kind of Joe Sakic player in is prime time, but i'm pretty sure it's gonna take some time, is game is based a lot on is speed, could hurt him a little bit at the NHL paste.

 

[Halfy]

I think i'll be a kind of Joe Sakic player in is prime time, but i'm pretty sure it's gonna take some time, is game is based a lot on is speed, could hurt him a little bit at the NHL paste.

disagree. His game should translate really well. Look at how good Nate was in his rookie year.....and McDavid is a clear step above Mack.

 

[daver]

Not even that, if I'm allowed to chime in here.

Crosby's last 25 games > Whatever McDavid will put up but on the flip side you can also counter (on McDavid's side) that he was scoring at a completely consistent 3 PPG level for the first 20 games of the season. The injury clearly slowed him down and he showed no sign of slowing down before the injury occurred. So it all comes down to preference. What seems more impressive? 86 points in 25 games or an extrapolated PPG of 204 points in 68 games for McDavid.

The people saying McDavid is Tavares/Stamkos tier make me laugh. He's clearly distinguished himself as a Crosby tier talent which is generational, yet he's now only Franchise? That's cutting him low here.

Scoring rates after 20 games =/= anything other than a scoring rate after 20 games especially for 17/18 year old players.

Crosby was 'only' at 2.21 rate for his first 37 games of his draft year after being at 2.30 in his 16 year old season. There's no way that he had regressed from age 16 to 17. He really got going after the WJC's and showed the improvement one would expect for a junior player in his 2nd year.

I can just as easily argue the post-WJC Crosby was the real one and extrapolate his points to 235 (or 270 in comparison to McDavid to adjust for league scoring).

I'm not sure why people need to try to justify his prospect stature. Crosby was statistically on Wayne and Mario's level as a 16/17 year old (and close as a 18/19 year old) but he did not reach their level of dominance. Who knows how McDavid will turn out. One thing is for sure however he does won't change his ranking as a prospect.

I don't think he deserves to be in the Mario/Lindros/Crosby prospect tier.

 

[helicecopter]

Anyone thinking McDavid will end up being close to Crosby is kidding themselves.

and... why exactly?

 

[golgoXIII]

disagree. His game should translate really well. Look at how good Nate was in his rookie year.....and McDavid is a clear step above Mack.

Don't forget Mack was draft by a great team and was playing with Tanguay Iginla Duchesne Landeskog and guys like that... If McDavid is draft by Buffalo it won't be the same story... and i'm not so sure that McDavid is far better than Mack... time will tell

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

3 point night for McDavid and the period has barely started

 

[CanadienShark]

Turned on the game tonight wondering if I'd see McDavid score 3+ points. Mid through the 1st he's got a sweet goal and two nice assists.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

 

[jigglysquishy]

At 6 points on the night now

 

[FDBluth]

The score is 10-5 in game in which the shots are 28-17. Not the best night for the goaltenders.

 

[Chfan]

At 6 points on the night now

Still 5 no?

 

[FDBluth]

Still 5 no?

Said 6 for a while in the boxscore. Must have changed one of the assists.