C Connor Bedard - Regina Pats, WHL (2023 Draft) Part 4

[GermanSpitfire]

They have won more Memorial Cups than the O or the W in the last 25 years. In any event, any talk that Crosby benefitted from playing in a weaker league was thrown out the window with his historic rookie season and Art Ross win in his 2nd year.

I’m talking about now - not in the past.

More and more We are seeing Quebec age groups not able to stack up to their counterparts in the OHL, and WHL.

Quebec league players don’t go very high in any draft anymmore and the amount of first round picks is diminishing year by year. It’s only going to continue

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

People out here talking about how he'll be better than McDavid.... The hype is out of control.

Maybe one poster has said this. The hype about the overhype is out of control.

@daver this hasn't aged too well.

The hype is 100% out of control.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

If he continues to improve his skating and has a back half of season like true generational players have had, I will gladly grant him generational status.

But an elite WJC performance is not enough to propel a franchise level prospect to a generational prospect.

The hockey world awaits your approval...

Good to know he hasn't done enough yet, and he was never "franchise level" - he's been seen as an top tier #1 OA at worst for probably 2 years now, people have been flirting with the generational label since his 15 year old season when he torched the WHL and then the world u18s while being a double under-aged player.

If you wanted to say the label was premature then? Sure, but at this point its solidified. I bet by draft day the term will be thrown around in almost every sentence, and deservedly so - he's done what the generational ones do, something we think is impossible until it happens.

 

[daver]

I’m talking about now - not in the past.

Three Memorial Cups in a row. But "now" is not relevant to the discussion anyways.

All we know is that Bedard is dominating the W like McDavid did in the O and, inarguably, has been more impressive in the WJCs at age 17.

IMO, there is no precedent to throw out 1st pick busts to temper expectations about him being the next "Next One". He has a generational shot and is showing close to generational all around offensive skills.

He is the type of player who just has to keep developing as one expects he would to reach his NHL potential rather than pointing to his "upside value" that puts some prospects ahead of others despite equal or inferior offensive skills.

He simply has that "it" factor.

 

[daver]

@daver this hasn't aged too well.

The hype is 100% out of control.

Apparently so is Bedard. Arguably the most impressive performance at a WJC given his age, possibly regardless of his age. This includes Wayne at age 16.

You like to throw out the "we literally have no idea how he will do in the NHL" as a reason to call out the hype. You are right, we have no idea. He could end up being the best player since Wayne/Mario given his showing so far.

 

[gimbznyr]

Apparently so is Bedard. Arguably the most impressive performance at a WJC given his age, possibly regardless of his age. This includes Wayne at age 16.

You like to throw out the "we literally have no idea how he will do in the NHL" as a reason to call out the hype. You are right, we have no idea. He could end up being the best player since Wayne/Mario given his showing so far.

It is sad really. I'm sure the guy has bedard voodoo dolls

 

[Voight]

They have won more Memorial Cups than the O or the W in the last 25 years. In any event, any talk that Crosby benefitted from playing in a weaker league was thrown out the window with his historic rookie season and Art Ross win in his 2nd year.

The Q has been the weakest out of the 3 CHL leagues for a while now.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Apparently so is Bedard. Arguably the most impressive performance at a WJC given his age, possibly regardless of his age. This includes Wayne at age 16.

You like to throw out the "we literally have no idea how he will do in the NHL" as a reason to call out the hype. You are right, we have no idea. He could end up being the best player since Wayne/Mario given his showing so far.

He's having a fantastic tournament, no doubt. It doesn't fundamentally change who is as a prospect, especially when you factor in how much of his production has come from 2 games vs terrible opponents.

Consider Puljujarvi - 17p in 7gp, but his competition was waaaay more difficult.

Russiax2
Canada
Sweden
Czechs
Slovakia
Belarus

Belarus was the only weak opponent in there. Finland beat them 6-0 and JP had 3 points.

So he had 14p in 6gp vs "legitimate" opponents.

Bedard has 8p in 3gp vs the "legitimate", and even then it's a much weaker pool of teams, as he hasn't had to also face Canada or Russia twice.

Did that make Puljujarvi a better prospect than Matthews, who only had 11 points? Of course not, because counting stats for this tournament, while tons of fun to talk about, don't actually mean that much when compared to what star players are doing with their club teams

For people to talk like he should be at least as good as Crosby and McDavid is insanity and the epitome of a runaway hype train. That's not me being a hater, go through and read more of my posts in this thread, I've been a vocal supporter.

 

[Voight]

Bedard has 27 goals and 64 points in his first 28 games this year.
Crosby had 41 goals and 98 points in his final 28 games of his draft year.

He's not a Crosby level prospect.

Its completely disingenuous and misleading to use Bedards first 28 games vs Sids last 28 games. C'mon man.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Its completely disingenuous and misleading to use Bedards first 28 games vs Sids last 28 games. C'mon man.

As I touched on, Crosby was injured in early October and missed several games. It took him 1 solid 1-2 months to get back to form.

 

[Voight]

As I touched on, Crosby was injured in early October and missed several games. It took him 1 solid 1-2 months to get back to form.

Then don't make a post like that until Bedard's season is done in a couple months and we can compare sample sizes. You can't say hes not a Crosby level prospect without comparing direct sample sizes. Come April, we'll see how Bedard's final 28 games went.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

It is sad really. I'm sure the guy has bedard voodoo dolls

Go ahead and read through the start of this thread and tell me if my posts are more often hyping / supporting Bedard, or bashing him.

I say the guy isn't Crosby or McDavid and all of the sudden I am labeled a hater by people who are apparently brand new to discussing this player.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Then don't make a post like that until Bedard's season is done in a couple months and we can compare sample sizes. You can't say hes not a Crosby level prospect without comparing direct sample sizes. Come April, we'll see how Bedard's final 28 games went.

I just did.

The only other comparable time frames? Their first 7 games before 87's injury
Crosby 22p
Bedard 12p

Or maybe when they were 16?

Crosby 135p in 59gp
Bedard 101p in 62gp

I literally just took a 28 game sample that wasn't tainted by a knee injury

 

[daver]

He's having a fantastic tournament, no doubt. It doesn't fundamentally change who is as a prospect, especially when you factor in how much of his production has come from 2 games vs terrible opponents.

Consider Puljujarvi - 17p in 7gp, but his competition was waaaay more difficult.

Russiax2
Canada
Sweden
Czechs
Slovakia
Belarus

Belarus was the only weak opponent in there. Finland beat them 6-0 and JP had 3 points.

So he had 14p in 6gp vs "legitimate" opponents.

Bedard has 8p in 3gp vs the "legitimate", and even then it's a much weaker pool of teams, as he hasn't had to also face Canada or Russia twice.

Did that make Puljujarvi a better prospect than Matthews, who only had 11 points? Of course not, because counting stats for this tournament, while tons of fun to talk about, don't actually mean that much when compared to what star players are doing with their club teams

For people to talk like he should be at least as good as Crosby and McDavid is insanity and the epitome of a runaway hype train. That's not me being a hater, go through and read more of my posts in this thread, I've been a vocal supporter.

Fundamentally as a prospect, he is toe-to-toe production-wise with McDavid thru their CHL careers to date, at a slightly younger age to boot. He, unlike Puljularvi, is doing things that only two prospects in the last 30 years have done, and is only enhancing his resume with an historic WJC performance.

You keep hilariously looking for cherry-picked arguments where there aren't any. You are either choosing to die on this hill or trolling at this point.

That Matthews or Eichel didn't have great WJC performances at age 17 only strengthens the view that Bedard is a better prospect then them.

 

[daver]

I say the guy isn't Crosby or McDavid and all of the sudden I am labeled a hater by people who are apparently brand new to discussing this player.

The only argument you have thrown out is that "he literally has not done anything in the NHL to warrant a comparison to Crosby/McDavid". Everything about him oozes "phenom" including, or strengthened by, a rise to the occasion factor.

He has met expectations since playing the W as a 15 year old.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Fundamentally as a prospect, he is toe-to-toe production-wise with McDavid thru their CHL careers to date, at a slightly younger age to boot. He, unlike Puljularvi, is not doing things that only two prospects in the last 30 years have done, and is only enhancing his resume with an historic WJC performance.

You keep hilariously looking for cherry-picked arguments where there aren't any. You are either choosing to die on this hill or trolling at this point.

That Matthews or Eichel didn't have great WJC performances at age 17 only strengthens the view that Bedard is a better prospect then them.

Yeah, he is producing on a similar pace as McDavid from year to year. That still doesn't make him the better prospect. McDavid's all world skating ability was highly projectable (as was Sid's prowess on the puck).

Bedard has the best wrist shot I have ever seen on a prospect. But getting that shot off in the NHL is a lot harder than in junior, and honestly this might sound like an odd complaint, but he doesn't score enough "dirty goals" for me to believe he's going to even surpass Matthews. If he's going to score 50+ goals a year he'll need to get to the net more.

The only argument you have thrown out is that "he literally has not done anything in the NHL to warrant a comparison to Crosby/McDavid". Everything about him oozes "phenom" including, or strengthened by, a rise to the occasion factor.

He has met expectations since playing the W as a 15 year old.

That's funny, I never once made that argument.

 

[daver]

Yeah, he is producing on a similar pace as McDavid from year to year. That still doesn't make him the better prospect. McDavid's all world skating ability was highly projectable (as was Sid's prowess on the puck).

Bedard has the best wrist shot I have ever seen on a prospect. But getting that shot off in the NHL is a lot harder than in junior, and honestly this might sound like an odd complaint, but he doesn't score enough "dirty goals" for me to believe he's going to even surpass Matthews. If he's going to score 50+ goals a year he'll need to get to the net more.

How many dirty goals does Matthews score? What about McDavid? What OV? You are right, it is an odd complaint.

Can please point to other prospects that had similar offensive production in juniors but because their skills were less projectible, did worse in the NHL than expected. Lafontaine and Kane, both of whom had "Franchise Player" type of seasons at age 17 come to mind as players who you would would have argued as having less projectible skills. Wayne also famously had less projectible skills.

 

[waitin425]

Crosby and McDavid were considered can't miss prospects. Both were tagged with "generational" expectations.

Bedard doesn't compare.....style wise to either player.....but he too can be safely tagged as a "generational" prospect at this time.

Relative to his peers, he is performing at or better than both Crosby and McDavid did at the same age, relative to their peers. Bedard is truly something special and the hype is warranted.

Going back to his style....I see it as his own unique style. He has elite vision and an elite shot. While he is not the most explosive skater (a la McDavid) and doesn't have the lower body strength to work his edges (a la Crosby), his vision allows him to maximize his output and simply go where the defending players aren't. You can't teach the elite portions of his game. The vision is akin to Gretzky.

I have heard that Bedard is a workhorse like Crosby. Constantly working to improve himself and his game. I think out of all the previous generational players, physically he could end up like Crosby. Work hard on the lower body strength. If he gets that lower body strength and dynamic edge work that could compare him to Crosby style wise, we could see him being a cycle monster with a lethal shot and amazing vision.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

How many dirty goals does Matthews score? What about McDavid? What OV? You are right, it is an odd complaint.

Matthews scores a ton of goals from right around the net, what a strange question to ask.

OV also scores a lot of goals around the net front, something people don't really appreciate about his game. He also has the best one timer in the history of the sport, which has helped. That, and with his power and speed he was able to create time and space for himself to get clean looks on net.

McDavid is not a realistic comparison considering so many of his goals are just from him skating past everyone.

Can please point to other prospects that had similar offensive production in juniors but because their skills were less projectible, did worse in the NHL than expected. Lafontaine and Kane, both of whom had "Franchise Player" type of seasons at age 17 come to mind as players who you would would have argued as having less projectible skills. Wayne also famously had less projectible skills.

John Tavares. We already had this conversation. You forgot about him last time too.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

One comparison I don't think I've seen but I think is becoming increasingly appropriate is Kucherov. Elite vision & hands while possessing an incredibly dangerous shot and a high level of deception. Neither guy is the fastest in the league, but they are strong skaters and strong on pucks. And they've both got ice in their veins and a high degree of sandpaper.

I could definitely see Bedard trending towards that sort of player if he continues to develop, especially if he is moved to wing.

 

[daver]

Matthews scores a ton of goals from right around the net, what a strange question to ask.

OV also scores a lot of goals around the net front, something people don't really appreciate about his game. He also has the best one timer in the history of the sport, which has helped. That, and with his power and speed he was able to create time and space for himself to get clean looks on net.

McDavid is not a realistic comparison considering so many of his goals are just from him skating past everyone.

Is this type of arrogance that keeps me coming back.

Anyways, you cannot cite a single prospect who was as generationally productive as Bedard but didn't pan out due to their skills not being projectible. You can reasonably argue that this guy may have more room to mature physically than McDavid and Crosby did which, using your logic, could raise his ceiling.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

One comparison I don't think I've seen but I think is becoming increasingly appropriate is Kucherov. Elite vision & hands while possessing an incredibly dangerous shot and a high level of deception. Neither guy is the fastest in the league, but they are strong skaters and strong on pucks. And they've both got ice in their veins and a high degree of sandpaper.

I could definitely see Bedard trending towards that sort of player if he continues to develop, especially if he is moved to wing.

Disagree as someone that has seen hundreds of Kucherov's games, he's more like young Stamkos but with better playmaking and overall offensive impact

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Is this type of arrogance that keeps me coming back.

Anyways, you cannot cite a single prospect who was as generationally productive as Bedard but didn't pan out due to their skills not being projectible. You can reasonably argue that this guy may have more room to mature physically than McDavid and Crosby did which, using your logic, could raise his ceiling.

I literally just cited Tavares. Did you miss that?

You asked if Matthews scores garbage goals, nobody who has actually watched him play would ask that sort of question. That's why it's strange.

Disagree as someone that has seen hundreds of Kucherov's games, he's more like young Stamkos but with better playmaking and overall offensive impact

I don't love the Stamkos comparison as he's relied so much on his one timer and is a much better athlete than Bedard. Bedard is much more methodical ala Kucherov, but that's just the way I see it, could be wrong.

 

[daver]

John Tavares. We already had this conversation. You forgot about him last time too.

Tavares was not touted as being a generational prospect by most scouts primarily due to his skating and that held true in the NHL.

Can you show any reviews by scouts that are questioning anything about Bedard to the extent that he is not as close to McDavid/Crosby as his production warrants?

 

[Haatley]

Bedard has 27 goals and 64 points in his first 28 games this year.
Crosby had 41 goals and 98 points in his final 28 games of his draft year.

He's not a Crosby level prospect.

The Q and W are very different leagues lol