C Connor Bedard (2023, 1st, CHI) Part 6

[Divine]

How was McDavid or Crosby considered generational players prior to their stepping on NHL ice?

They were both bigger, so they could handle the NHL physicality. The only reason Kane was not hyped as generational is because he was 5'10... the same height as Bedard.

Also Crosby was a much, much better prospect than Bedard.

If you want to talk about playing with scrubs, Crosby was the definition in his draft year. He played with worse players than Bedard.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

We won't know how good Bedard's teammates are until later.

Are you willing to guarantee no one on Bedard's team amounts to anything? I think people are purposely underselling Bedard's teammates here just to prop up Bedard.

The linemate argument is pointless, because if we use that argument Kane should be a better NHL player than McDavid because he put up the same numbers with weaker linemates. Also, Kane was a much better player than McDavid in their 16 and 17 year old seasons.

Who cares how good they are later? They can be late bloomers or improve, but he doesn't have anything close to as good as Gagner or Kostitsyn were. Gagner went 6th overall and made the WJC team at a draft eligible player, none of bedards teammates are close to that level right now. They both played in the NHL the next season, how many of bedards linemates are NHL ready?

 

[Half Clapper]

We won't know how good Bedard's teammates are until later.

Are you willing to guarantee no one on Bedard's team amounts to anything? I think people are purposely underselling Bedard's teammates here just to prop up Bedard.

The linemate argument is pointless, because if we use that argument Kane should be a better NHL player than McDavid because he put up the same numbers with weaker linemates. Also, Kane was a much better player than McDavid in their 16 and 17 year old seasons.

ya considering he plays with Howe, who is supposed to be a first round pick. Also, that D-man they have on the back end is very solid.

Who cares how good they are later? They can be late bloomers or improve, but he doesn't have anything close to as good as Gagner or Kostitsyn were. Gagner went 6th overall and made the WJC team at a draft eligible player, none of bedards teammates are close to that level right now. They both played in the NHL the next season, how many of bedards linemates are NHL ready?

Tanner Howe is a damn good hockey player and that Russian he plays with is damn good as well. Both of them will make the NHL imo.

 

[Craft Beer Lover]

They were both over 6 ft, so they could handle the NHL physicality. The only reason Kane was not hyped as generational is because he was 5'10... the same height as Bedard.

Crosby is listed as 5’11”...a whopping one inch bigger than Bedard. Incidentally, another great HOFer had the exact same body measures as Bedard, 5’10”, 185 lbs. A fellow by the name of Bobby Clarke.

 

[Divine]

Crosby is listed as 5’11”...a whopping one inch bigger than Bedard. Incidentally, another great HOFer had the exact same body measures as Bedard, 5’10”, 185 lbs. A fellow by the name of Bobby Clarke.

Crosby was a way better prospect than Bedard though.

Crosby was a way better prospect than McDavid by a wide margin.

Crosby was lighting the league up from 15. Bedard looked like a standard first rounder just last season. He wasn't like Crosby where everywhere he went, he dominated.

Crosby put up 135 points in 59 games as a 16 year old on a bad team. Not his draft season, in his draft -1 season.

In comparison, Bedard put up 100 points in 62 games last season (draft -1 season). Also, Crosby was younger than Bedard when he was drafted so you can't use the birthdays to dismiss him either. Bedard is older than Crosby was.

 

[Craft Beer Lover]

Crosby was a way better prospect than Bedard though.

Crosby was a way better prospect than McDavid by a wide margin.

Crosby was lighting the league up from 15. Bedard looked like a standard first rounder just last season. He wasn't like Crosby where everywhere he went, he dominated.

Sure, buddy. And now look at McDavid...he’s the best player in the NHL since the great Mario Lemieux, which is also known as to be generational, like Bedard will be.

 

[Divine]

Sire, buddy. And now look at McDavid...he’s the best player in the NHL since the great Mario Lemieux, which is also known as to be generational, like Bedard will be.

Yeah, McDavid being generational has nothing to do with him as a prospect.

Lots of prospects were labelled generational and weren't. You're just getting too obsessed with the shiny new toy.

 

[Half Clapper]

Yeah, McDavid being generational has nothing to do with him as a prospect.

Lots of prospects were labelled generational and weren't. You're just getting too obsessed with the shiny new toy.

Ya kids on this forum jump the gun way too quick. Pat kanes numbers were the same as Bedard, and he obv isn't on the same level as Crosby, Mcdavid, or any of the real greats. Lets pump the brakes here a bit people.

 

[Divine]

Ya kids on this forum jump the gun way too quick. Pat kanes numbers were the same as Bedard, and he obv isn't on the same level as Crosby, Mcdavid, or any of the real greats. Lets pump the brakes here a bit people.

People forget that players like Alexandre Daigle were also called generational. He put up similar numbers to Bedard in junior also. Some posters are arguing it's a foregone conclusion that once you're labelled generational you're one of the greatest of all time.

John Tavares was labelled generational, he broke Gretzky's scoring records in junior. Some people on these forums would have a panic attack if Bedard only ended up being as good as Tavares. If he ended up being as good as Daigle? Some people might need therapy.

 

[Craft Beer Lover]

People forget that players like Alexandre Daigle were also called generational. Like it's a foregone conclusion that once you're labelled generational you're one of the greatest of all time.

John Tavares was labelled generational, he broke Gretzky's scoring records in junior. Some people on these forums would have a panic attack if Bedard only ended up being as good as Tavares.

What personal problem do you have with the guy? Are you worried that he will almost surely be better than Auston Matthews?

 

[Divine]

What personal problem do you have with the guy? Are you worried that he will almost surely be better than Auston Matthews?

I don't have a personal problem with him.

I'm just not willing to call him an all-time great before he's drafted because I've seen many overhyped players who didn't live up to the hype.

I'm sure it's fun to call a 17 year old one of the best ever to get excited, but it's not realistic. Can he be better than Gretzky? It's possible. Can he be worse than Daigle? Also possible.

 

[Half Clapper]

Compare team and teammates, and then look at their development years and come back and tell me they're the same production wise. They aren't.

Bedard is playing with Tanner Howe, who will be a first round pick. That Russian he is playing with is also a 3rd round NHL pick, who is looking like he could be a steal. Kane obviously played on a high scoring team with great Jr players, but he also played in a better league than Bedard, which is a factor as well.

What personal problem do you have with the guy? Are you worried that he will almost surely be better than Auston Matthews?

It is called the guy has been around, and he is not going to jump the gun on a player, who hasn't had sustained success at the NHL level yet. When he starts putting up 100+ pt seasons, and doing things Mcdavid is doing right now, then we can start calling him generational.

 

[Divine]

Crosby didn't play when he was 15. You seem to be confused.

Crosby didn't play hockey until he was 16? That's amazing, I had no idea.

 

[Half Clapper]

How players project as NHL players has nothing to do with how good they are in junior.

Someone like Howe is just a very good 17yo, but not an elite CHL player at this point in time. He could likely be a better player than Stankoven, but for a junior player Stankoven is a vastly better player right now.

THAT is what we are comparing when it comes in terms of teammates.

You're also still ignoring Kane was a year older

He is an elite CHL player right now lmao. He is 12th in league scoring. Have you even watched him play? You're ignoring that Kane played in a better league. Wasn't kane a 17 year old when he played on the Knights?

 

[MichaelFarrell]

Bedard is playing with Tanner Howe, who will be a first round pick. That Russian he is playing with is also a 3rd round NHL pick, who is looking like he could be a steal. Kane obviously played on a high scoring team with great Jr players, but he also played in a better league than Bedard, which is a factor as well.

I’d hold off on saying Howe is a first round pick. I’m not sure if I see that upside yet.

I don’t know why you think Kane played in a better league. 10 players from the WHL could go in the first round. Only 3 players from the OHL went in the first round in Kane’s draft year. Sure he played against a young Stamkos and Tavares, but I’m not sure if it was a deep as compared to the WHL today. I’d also like to add that London was for certain the deepest team that year. It’s close, but I think the WHL is actually a better league.

 

[Half Clapper]

I’d hold off on saying Howe is a first round pick. I’m not sure if I see that upside yet.

I don’t know why you think Kane played in a better league. 10 players from the WHL could go in the first round. Only 3 players from the OHL went on the first round in Kane’s draft year. I’d also like to add that London was for certain the deepest team that year. It’s close, but I think the WHL is actually a better league.

He's projected to be a first round pick as of today bud. So, you might not see the upside, but scouts do. The OHL has always been known as being the deepest of the three leagues...

 

[daver]

The contrarian's are out in force again.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

He's projected to be a first round pick as of today bud. So, you might not see the upside, but scouts do. The OHL has always been known as being the deepest of the three leagues...

That’s just not a retort at all to what I said lol. You have nothing to back that up. I’ve watched Regina play all year. Bedard isn’t playing with good players.

As for the WHL-OHL argument, that simply wasn’t a solid rebuttal. WHL is producing better players right now. It’s a very deep league. I think it’s better than the OHL having watched both this year. QMJHL is clearly the worst.

 

[authentic]

Crosby was a way better prospect than Bedard though.

Crosby was a way better prospect than McDavid by a wide margin.

Crosby was lighting the league up from 15. Bedard looked like a standard first rounder just last season. He wasn't like Crosby where everywhere he went, he dominated.

Crosby put up 135 points in 59 games as a 16 year old on a bad team. Not his draft season, in his draft -1 season.

In comparison, Bedard put up 100 points in 62 games last season (draft -1 season). Also, Crosby was younger than Bedard when he was drafted so you can't use the birthdays to dismiss him either. Bedard is older than Crosby was.

To be fair though there were scouts who predicted McDavid would be better than Crosby in the NHL. Still though nothing is a guarantee and if I had to guess Bedard will not be better than Crosby.

 

[Divine]

So we're comparing what they did before junior as well? You do realize Bedard absolutely tore up these leagues as well? So much so that he was given exceptional status and put up nearly 2PPG as a 15yo in the WHL?

Yes, I'm comparing what he did since he was younger than junior. Crosby's parents did not want him playing in Halifax so they didn't get him exceptional player status because it meant he would be in the spotlight in Halifax. Also, it was much harder to get exceptional player status back in the day. Exceptional status is becoming much more common with players like Sean Day, Joe Veleno and Shane Wright getting exceptional player status recently, and they aren't superstar players.

Bedard was not as good at 15, or 16, or 17 as Crosby was, but neither was McDavid. Crosby was a better prospect than McDavid, but that didn't change McDavid from becoming who he did as an NHLer.

Bedard's numbers last season were nowhere close to Crosby's numbers in his draft -1. Crosby's draft numbers were also better than Bedard's and no one on his team even ended up becoming a regular NHLer.

 

[Half Clapper]

Kane was 18 and a late age draft pick. You should really learn these things before you try posting about this.

And yes, as of right now Howe is very good as a 17yo, but not one of the elites and certainly not as good as Gagner and Kostitsyn were when they played with Kane.

Why does it say he was 17 on hockeydb? This site sucks apparently lol. Either way do not jump the gun too quick. He is not the first and won't be the last player that was overhyped on being "generational". Will have to wait and see what he does.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

He's projected to be a first round pick as of today bud. So, you might not see the upside, but scouts do. The OHL has always been known as being the deepest of the three leagues...

I also have questions with Howe regarding his production without Bedard.

He is a talented kid no doubt but I wouldn't be making any assertions about where he will go until next season when he will be without one of the best players to ever step foot in the WHL on his team.

 

[ello]

The amount of leaf fan butthurt from the Marner comparison is so predictable

 

[Half Clapper]

That’s just not a retort at all to what I said lol. You have nothing to back that up. I’ve watched Regina play all year. Bedard isn’t playing with good players.

As for the WHL-OHL argument, that simply wasn’t a solid rebuttal. WHL is producing better players right now. It’s a very deep league. I think it’s better than the OHL having watched both this year. QMJHL is clearly the worst.

Bedard isn't playing with any good players at all?? a D-man with 66 assists is not good??? Colour me shocked

 

[MichaelFarrell]

Bedard isn't playing with any good players at all?? a D-man with 66 assists is not good??? Colour me shocked

He has those assists because Bedard has 70 goals!