C Connor Bedard (2023, 1st, CHI) Part 6

[MichaelFarrell]

He is a good player though, and you said the Pats didn't have any good players...

Just for some evidence, Bedard has 57 more points than Suzdalev in 9 fewer games. How is that possible? It’s because he has to rely on individual efforts most of the time. None of the players on Regina can finish the majority of plays that Bedard makes.

How is it that Bedard is a +42 while nearly every other player beside Howe and Svozil are in the negative? I don’t usually use +\- but the number is staggering. Regina has the 3rd highest goals against in the entire WHL.

His teammates are not good. Sure, Svozil can get the puck up the ice and Howe has a bit of talent. But, he’s not playing with guys that can truly drive any play or finish much of the plays he creates.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Ya I am just stating what he did in those 3 games. I like the way he plays and I won't be surprised if he puts up close to 90 pts again next year. Have you seen him live at all?

No, living in Germany means having constraints to be able to view North American games in person.

Those rules were the underage rules prior to the Exceptional Status rules established in 2005. Which was more of my argument.

Gotcha

 

[Bubbles]

What are you talking about? My whole argument is the reason Crosby did NOT play in major junior at 15 is because him/his parents did not want him playing in his hometown. He had the option to do so. You claimed he could not play at 15, because it was impossble.

You suggested I made up the idea that Crosby could play prior to 16, and now you're agreeing that he could. It makes no sense. Instead of accepting you were wrong, you changed your whole argument to mine.

So your new argument is that Crosby could have played but choose not to? Great, we agree then. What did I make up?

You said the Crosby's did not seek "Exceptional Status"...which was not a thing until 2005.

There were different rules for underage players, as you have said. Just don't use ES, which is my argument.

 

[ffsffs1]

People forget that players like Alexandre Daigle were also called generational. He put up similar numbers to Bedard in junior also. Some posters are arguing it's a foregone conclusion that once you're labelled generational you're one of the greatest of all time.

Daigle put up similar numbers to Bedard the same way McDavid's putting up similar numbers to Bernie Nichols.

22-23 WHL goals per game: 3.46
92-93 QMJHL goals per game: 4.40

On a tangent, crazy that Crosby put up the numbers he did in the lowest scoring season (3.19) in QMJHL history.

 

[Half Clapper]

Just for some evidence, Bedard has 57 more points than Suzdalev in 9 fewer games. How is that possible? It’s because he has to rely on individual efforts most of the time. None of the players on Regina can finish the majority of plays that Bedard makes.

How is it that Bedard is a +42 while nearly every other player beside Howe and Svozil are in the negative? I don’t usually use +\- but the number is staggering. Regina has the 3rd highest goals against in the entire WHL.

His teammates are not good. Sure, Svozil can get the puck up the ice and Howe has a bit of talent. But, he’s not playing with guys that can truly drive any play or finish much of the plays he creates.

Oh trust me I agree that Regina is not a good team, but too say they have no good players is what I didn't like. Svozil is a damn good player in the WHL as a 20 year old with Bedard or not. Howe has a lot of talent bud. Have you watched the Pats play live at all?

 

[Divine]

You said the Crosby's did not seek "Exceptional Status"...which was not a thing until 2005.

There were different rules for underage players, as you have said. Just don't use ES, which is my argument.

Why does exceptional status mean anything? Players were playing at 15 for a long time.

'Exceptional' 14-year-old eligible for OHL draft

The Ontario Hockey League insists it does not condone 15-year-olds entering its playing ranks.

www.theglobeandmail.com

Tavares, who is already more than 6 foot, is considered far and away the best Ontario player born in 1990. The honours student in high school scored 83 goals and 64 assists in 77 games this past season for the Toronto Marlies midget team.

He is already being touted as the next Sidney Crosby, the star of the Rimouski Oceanic in the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League who would in all likelihood have been the top choice in this year's NHL draft were it not cancelled as a result of the labour lockout.

Branch said he does not believe the decision to allow Tavares into the league will open the floodgates.

The last 15-year-old to play in the OHL was Jason Spezza with the Brampton Battalion in 1998-99. Spezza is now in the NHL with the Ottawa Senators.

Before Spezza, Rico Fata, now with the NHL's Pittsburgh Penguins, played as a 15-year-old with the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds and Kirk Muller, a former NHL player with Montreal and Toronto, also played at 15 in the Soo.

To help safeguard against frivolous applications from overzealous parents of 15-year-old hockey-playing prodigies who want to follow in Tavares's footsteps, the OHL is suggesting that a $1,000 application fee be implemented.

"You may get aggressive, ambitious parents," Branch said. "But there's also going to be in there that if you wish to apply to be considered an 'exceptional' player, you must file a deposit fee of $1,000 so that we don't hopefully get frivolous applications.The OHL normally does not allow players under 15 to be drafted.

"And it's not returned if you're deemed not to be 'exceptional.' "

I called it exceptional player status because that is what it was later named.

And this article is going to piss people off, because people in this thread are arguing once you're labelled generational, you're guaranteed to be an all-time great.

They labelled Tavares generational - some of you would be really upset if Bedard ended up being Tavares for some reason.

 

[Half Clapper]

No, living in Germany means having constraints to be able to view North American games in person.

Gotcha

Yeah, that is tough! I have seen Howe live and he sticks out with Bedard or not.

 

[Divine]

Daigle put up similar numbers to Bedard the same way McDavid's putting up similar numbers to Bernie Nichols.

22-23 WHL goals per game: 3.46
92-93 QMJHL goals per game: 4.40

On a tangent, crazy that Crosby put up the numbers he did in the lowest scoring season (3.19) in QMJHL history.

Exactly, yet people on here are arguing Bedard is a better prospect than Crosby for some reason. One was arguing Bedard's better because Crosby choose not to play in the CHL at 15.

 

[Bubbles]

Why does exceptional status mean anything? Players were playing at 15 for a long time.

"Exceptional Status" is an actual designation by CHL which governs all the major junior leagues. This allows a 15 year old player to be drafted by any of the regional leagues.

Big difference than the pre-2005 rules, where an underage was only allowed to play for his hometown team.

I have an issue with people using "Exceptional Status" to anyone pre-2005 because well, that doesn't make sense. The CHL passed new rules for the term in 2005.

 

[Divine]

"Exceptional Status" is an actual designation by CHL which governs all the major junior leagues. This allows a 15 year old player to be drafted by any of the regional leagues.

Big difference than the pre-2005 rules, where an underage was only allowed to play for his hometown team.

I have an issue with people using "Exceptional Status" to anyone pre-2005 because well, that doesn't make sense. The CHL passed new rules for the term in 2005.

So you accept Crosby did not play in the CHL at 15 because he choose not to and not because he wasn't as good as Bedard?

The whole reason I even said that was because I said Crosby choose not to whereas another poster was arguing Bedard is better than Crosby as a prospect because he was in the CHL at 15, whereas Crosby wasn't.

 

[prongertheman9]

Hey look it is the german who said guenther was bad at the WJC...He will produce without Bedard. He plays the game the right way on both ends of the ice.


You're clueless lol. His 8 pts at the WJC were because of bedard too?!?!?

Put me in the camp of people who thought Guenther was terrible at both WJC’s and who thinks Howe is far from a 1st round lock

 

[Half Clapper]

Put me in the camp of people who thought Guenther was terrible at both WJC’s and who thinks Howe is far from a 1st round lock

hahah! I never knew terrible players scored game winning gold medal goals. I guess being a Canucks fan means you're a bit sour that you traded that 9th ovr pick (Guenther) for a guy you're going to buyout this summer


Like I asked the other guys, have you ever seen Howe live?

 

[prongertheman9]

hahah! I never knew terrible players scored game winning gold medal goals. I guess being a Canucks fan you're a bit sour that you traded that 9th ovr pick (Guenther) for a guy you're going to buyout this summer


Like I asked the other guys, have you ever seen Howe live?

Scoring 1 goal doesn’t make up for a whole tournament of being invisible.

And yes I have literally watched every single Pats game since Bedard debuted in 20/21.

 

[Just Linda]

I also have questions with Howe regarding his production without Bedard.

He is a talented kid no doubt but I wouldn't be making any assertions about where he will go until next season when he will be without one of the best players to ever step foot in the WHL on his team.

I might be in the minority here but I find Howe looks a lot better playing away from Bedard than he does playing with him. They don't seem to mesh well imo, I can see why the coaches pull them apart as much as they do.

 

[Half Clapper]

Scoring 1 goal doesn’t make up for a whole tournament of being invisible.

And yes I have literally watched every single Pats game since Bedard debuted in 20/21.

You have watched every pats game live since bedard debuted? Another clueless clown who doesn't know how to read. Guenther was fine in the tourney. He is a goal scorer and he did exactly that.

 

[Just Linda]

Why? Crosby and McDavid were Top 10 in their rookies years.

Not sure why people are trying to fit a clearly generational prospect who is only clearly bettered by Wayne and Mario into these "comparables" that make no sense.

He's not McDavid. Not even close.

A big reason McDavid was successful in the NHL was because hes as fast as he is. Other successful rookies have some aspect of their game that makes immediately success until the rest of their game catches up.

Bedard isn't big, he isn't a burner like McDavid, and he doesn't have the same ability to get lost on coverage like some of the other recent snipers. He doesn't dig corners and he doesn't win battles. He's not yet developed defensively. He's made huge strides in his development already this year but he's still just a kid, it takes time.

Those are things that come with time and he will develop, he'll get there. His puck skills, vision, and stick skills are all more than NHL ready and good enough to be immediately effective the rest of his game isn't there.

In 2 years, I don't doubt it. For now, don't just stat watch and catch the highlights, watch the player.

 

[prongertheman9]

You have watched every pats game live since bedard debuted? Another clueless clown who doesn't know how to read. Guenther was fine in the tourney. He is a goal scorer and he did exactly that.

If you think Guenther was fine then you had extremely low expectations. He scored goals because Bedard continuously fed him on the PP. I did think he got a bit better as the tourney went on but overall he was a huge disappointed at 5v5.

I have watched a handful of Pats games in person and the rest on CHL tv. Do I have to be in the stands every game to make an assessment about Howe or something? How high do you think he will be drafted? Will be fun to revisit in a year.

 

[Half Clapper]

If you think Guenther was fine then you had extremely low expectations. He scored goals because Bedard continuously fed him on the PP. I did think he got a bit better as the tourney went on but overall he was a huge disappointed at 5v5.

I have watched a handful of Pats games in person and the rest on CHL tv. Do I have to be in the stands every game to make an assessment about Howe or something? How high do you think he will be drafted? Will be fun to revisit in a year.

You didn't read the question properly, but I am glad you figured it out. Idk you seem to be the big time scout here, why don't you tell me hot shot?

 

[Mathieukferland]

His WJC was definitely impressive, but it's harder to compare WJC because there's stronger and weaker teams. Some teams are absolutely stacked and other years the talent is bare. Also, the teams you're playing can be much weaker or stronger depending on schedule and year. There's more deviation in that than in junior.

Bedard’s WJC draft year team was weak compared to the 2005 and 2015 teams that Crosby and McDavid played on; Bedard was the main piece on his team, Crosby and McDavid weren’t even on their respective first lines

 

[Mathieukferland]

No, living in Germany means having constraints to be able to view North American games in person.

Howe played at u18 in Germany last year and was a complete non-factor…. To prove your point, when not playing with bedard (as he was not) he’s not top 15 material

 

[daver]

He's not McDavid. Not even close.

A big reason McDavid was successful in the NHL was because hes as fast as he is. Other successful rookies have some aspect of their game that makes immediately success until the rest of their game catches up.

Bedard isn't big, he isn't a burner like McDavid, and he doesn't have the same ability to get lost on coverage like some of the other recent snipers. He doesn't dig corners and he doesn't win battles. He's not yet developed defensively. He's made huge strides in his development already this year but he's still just a kid, it takes time.

Those are things that come with time and he will develop, he'll get there. His puck skills, vision, and stick skills are all more than NHL ready and good enough to be immediately effective the rest of his game isn't there.

In 2 years, I don't doubt it. For now, don't just stat watch and catch the highlights, watch the player.

When a player is outproducing another at the same level of development, it is pretty dumb to say that they are not "even close".

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

When a player is outproducing another at the same level of development, it is pretty dumb to say that they are not "even close".

Jordan Dumais outproduced Pierre Luc-Dubois in their respective draft years, but I'd argue they were not even close as prospects.

There's more to evaluating talent than stat watching.

 

[ponder]

Add Svozil to that list, who is a really good puck moving D-man. The guy has 67 assists for christ sake. He also played well for the Czech's at the world juniors.

I think you misread my post, I already had Svozil on my list

 

[JackSlater]

Bedard’s WJC draft year team was weak compared to the 2005 and 2015 teams that Crosby and McDavid played on; Bedard was the main piece on his team, Crosby and McDavid weren’t even on their respective first lines

Bedard's team was weaker, but Crosby did play on the top line. Still not the same situation as Bedard though as there were other players who were more of a focal point than Crosby was.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Howe played at u18 in Germany last year and was a complete non-factor…. To prove your point, when not playing with bedard (as he was not) he’s not top 15 material

Yeah, I wasn't able to attend the U18's because of previous commitments - It's okay though because it was too far out of the way. I would have had to drive 7 hours for a game, and that is a tall task even for the most hardcore hockey fans.