You have to do what I do and find a "work reason" to travel. I got away with that going to Helsinki for the 2016 WJC lol.
C Connor Bedard (2023, 1st, CHI) Part 6
- Thread starter GermanSpitfire
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GermanSpitfire
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That’s what I did for the U20 WJC in Halifax!!!
Just Linda
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Just Linda
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I'm not ignoring that, I'm just using a bit of sense to realize that a player can't use those skills without the rest of their games being developed enough to utilize those skills. He's good enough currently to be an excellent PP player, right now as a 17 year old he's not good enough at the rest of his game to jump in against NHL d and do what McDavid did.
GermanSpitfire
EU Video Scout for McKeen’s | Rest Easy #13
I did a small deep dive into Tanner Howe's goals and how many Bedard has contributed - then Howe's production with Bedard out of the lineup.
Okay so I'll start with the games Howe played without Bedard in the lineup. So Bedard missed 11 games due to the WJC, He missed the games from December 9th against Prince Albert to January 6th against Seattle. Yes it is a small sample size but it is large enough to start to ponder.
In those 11 games Howe played, he had 3 goals and 5 assists for 8 points for points per game of .72 while Bedard was away at the World Juniors.. The games Bedard are in the lineup Howe's PPG is 1.36 for comparisons sake. Small sample but noteworthy there is such a large discrepancy.
Howes goals per game this season is around .52 - while Bedard was out of the lineup at the WJC this number dropped to .27 - again small sample size, but it's something.
Howe has 34 goals this season, and of those 34 goals Bedard has assisted on 18 of them, then has not produced an assist on 16 of them. so this means that Bedard has contributed an assist on 53% of Howes goals.
But wait - 3 of those goals were scored while Bedard was out at the WJC - so in reality, while Bedard is in the lineup, Howe has scored 31 goals, 18 of those assisted by Bedard, 13 of them not.
So while Bedard is in the lineup with Howe - Howe's goals are assisted by Bedard 58% of the time.
In conclusion, Howes numbers look much better with Bedard than without him, and from what the numbers say - Bedard has been a large component of Howe's success this year.
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Sticktape
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Sweetpotato
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Hard to answer right now but we might get our answer at the world championships.
Sweetpotato
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While by my eye test, I've never been enamored by Howe, you can do the same test for Draisaitl, Rantanen, Marner, etc with their respective superstar team mates. Good players produce with good players and don't produce with bad players. Regina is a very shallow team in terms of talent so I wouldn't hold it against him at all if he doesn't produce without him.
All that said, for every star being out shined by his teammate, there are Sam Gagners on Patrick Kane's line in juniors, so who knows what will happen.
GermanSpitfire
EU Video Scout for McKeen’s | Rest Easy #13
Good players Produce no matter what.
It’s a small sample size, yes but it shows what he can do with and without Bedard. A .6 P/PG difference with/without a certain player is notable, even over a short sample like 11 games.
Next season Howe loses both his #1C and #1D in Svozil and Bedard, then he could also lose Suzdalev if Washington has a better plan for him.
Team will be weaker than it is this year, so there is alot on the line next season for Howe. It’ll be fascinating to see what he does.
Just Linda
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If you think that 17 year old Bedard is closer to being a 100pt player than he is to being a record setting draft eligible prospect... I doubt you've watched him play regularly.
Stop watching highlights and stat packs and watch some games.
GlassesJacketShirt
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Bedard's linemates are, for the most part, not the problem. Howe is a good complimentary winger at this point who shows decent goal scoring ability with some intelligent play at both ends. Could see him being a middle-six guy in the NHL, his burst will determine how far up the lineup he could go.
Suzdalev is a first round talent, with excellent hands, fine frame, good creativity and noted scoring instincts. I think he is the #2 on offense for the Pats, though I find he has a lack of alertness too often for my tastes.
Svozil is easily the second best player on the squad, his numbers are a bit inflated but he would be challenging for the D scoring lead regardless of squad, another 1st round type talent.
The issue with the Pats is, I've name all their notable players already. Borya Valis and Zack Stringer can work in a pinch, but they are not top six players on good WHL teams. Oremba and Whitehead are the only other players who might have a shot at pro careers, but not necessarily in top pro leagues.
Bateman seems to be solid defensively for a WHL player, but he handles the puck like a grenade.
Then......replacement level players across the board.
Suzdalev is a first round talent, with excellent hands, fine frame, good creativity and noted scoring instincts. I think he is the #2 on offense for the Pats, though I find he has a lack of alertness too often for my tastes.
Svozil is easily the second best player on the squad, his numbers are a bit inflated but he would be challenging for the D scoring lead regardless of squad, another 1st round type talent.
The issue with the Pats is, I've name all their notable players already. Borya Valis and Zack Stringer can work in a pinch, but they are not top six players on good WHL teams. Oremba and Whitehead are the only other players who might have a shot at pro careers, but not necessarily in top pro leagues.
Bateman seems to be solid defensively for a WHL player, but he handles the puck like a grenade.
Then......replacement level players across the board.
Mr Buckles
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This is just his regular WHL profile page.
Also, did he retroactively picked up another assist somewhere to bring him up to 142 points on the year?
Just Linda
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Do you even remember my assessment of Fantilli or are you intentionally just trolling people who have a different opinion than you?
They gave him an assist on the first goal of the MJ game on Sat to give him 3+3
Almost 15,000 fans in Saskatoon to see Bedard play. I can’t remember that ever happening before.
Just Linda
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Funny how McDavid is doing the exact same as Bedard right now, putting up huge numbers on the PP to create a big gap between him and the rest of the league.
There is zero precedence for a 17 year old to dominate in this fashion in the CHL (Wayne, Mario, Lindros, Crosby, and McDavid) and not reach the dominant level in the NHL.
And for the 100th time in this thread, Kane did not:
- dominate the O like Bedard is dominating the W while being 8 months older
- was not as big or as physical as Bedard
- did not come remotely close to doing what Bedard did at the WJCs
For the "I'll throw 'the ES scoring only matters' narrative against the wall to see if it sticks" crowd.
Bedard's ESP/game - 1.66
Next best three in the W -
1.20
1.15
1.08
McDavid's was 1.60
Crosby's was 1.53
Kane's was 1.12
Another narrative put to bed.
Bedard's ESP/game - 1.66
Next best three in the W -
1.20
1.15
1.08
McDavid's was 1.60
Crosby's was 1.53
Kane's was 1.12
Another narrative put to bed.
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Just Linda
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You just invented a narrative to dispute.
The only person who's said anything about PP talked about NHL projectability for Bedard next year in the NHL, it was a skills assessment not a Stat watching experiment.
Actually break down his game, not just look at numbers. Games are played on the ice not on the stat sheets.
I was just pointing out that he appears to be just as dominant at ES as his statistical comparables (Crosby, McDavid) were so there wasn't too much focus on his "less projectible" PP skills.
Your "games are played on the ice not on the stat sheets." mantra rings pretty hallow when he is doing things as good, or better than Crosby and McDavid were doing at the same age.
It is simply not reasonable to point out that his size will hold him back when you can point to many other smaller players who met projected productions levels in the NHL based on their pre-draft careers.
TheGreenTBer
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OK that is pretty baller, respect
Totally agree, every generational Phenom entering the draft has always reached the peak they were suppose to hit. I’m just curious though, was dangle considered a Phenom in his draft year, his stats indicate he might have been but I’m unsure
Every elite player is different. Crosby and McDavid are insane compete, play dominating, game controlling forces. Bedard isn’t, but neither are Kane, Kucherov, Ovechkin, Jack Hughes, Pastrnak, Marner, Stamkos, etc. Hell, neither was Wayne Gretzky.
Bedard has an absolutely unreal shot, completely elite hands, is exceptionally hard to contain with the puck, and has outstanding hockey IQ/offensive instincts. He’s not going to be elite at winning the puck back, but if you pair him with players who are, he’s going to be beyond elite at driving offence once his team gains possession. He’s going to be a force.
Bedard has an absolutely unreal shot, completely elite hands, is exceptionally hard to contain with the puck, and has outstanding hockey IQ/offensive instincts. He’s not going to be elite at winning the puck back, but if you pair him with players who are, he’s going to be beyond elite at driving offence once his team gains possession. He’s going to be a force.
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If you don’t think that Bedard is a play dominating, game controlling force then you are unfamiliar with his game. When is on his game he completely tilts the ice and controls the game. What makes him scary is that in tight checking games against high quality opponents or when he is having an off night he can still produce via quick strike offence.
I’ve seen close to 20 of his games. With the puck on his stick, he absolutely tilts the ice, as do the other players I listed. He’s basically impossible for defenders to contain at the WHL level, and I’ll bet it’ll be the same in his prime in the NHL.
However, when the other team has the puck, he’s not elite at winning it back like Sid or McDavid, who are absolute puck hounds (Sid especially). This is totally fine, as I noted I think he’s very comparable to many of the NHL’s best forwards in this regard (Kane, Kucherov, Ovechkin, Jack Hughes, Pastrnak, Marner, Stamkos, etc.), it’s just a difference between him and Sid/McDavid, who he often gets compared to.
