C Connor Bedard (2023, 1st, CHI) Part 6

[Half Clapper]

I also have questions with Howe regarding his production without Bedard.

He is a talented kid no doubt but I wouldn't be making any assertions about where he will go until next season when he will be without one of the best players to ever step foot in the WHL on his team.

Hey look it is the german who said guenther was bad at the WJC...He will produce without Bedard. He plays the game the right way on both ends of the ice.

He has those assists because Bedard has 70 goals!

You're clueless lol. His 8 pts at the WJC were because of bedard too?!?!?

 

[5 14 6 1]

Crosby was a way better prospect than Bedard though.

Crosby was a way better prospect than McDavid by a wide margin.

Crosby was lighting the league up from 15. Bedard looked like a standard first rounder just last season. He wasn't like Crosby where everywhere he went, he dominated.

Crosby put up 135 points in 59 games as a 16 year old on a bad team. Not his draft season, in his draft -1 season.

In comparison, Bedard put up 100 points in 62 games last season (draft -1 season). Also, Crosby was younger than Bedard when he was drafted so you can't use the birthdays to dismiss him either. Bedard is older than Crosby was.

The Q isn't an equivalent league to compare apples to apples

 

[Bubbles]

Yes, I'm comparing what he did since he was younger than junior. Crosby's parents did not want him playing in Halifax so they didn't get him exceptional player status because it meant he would be in the spotlight in Halifax. Also, it was much harder to get exceptional player status back in the day. Exceptional status is becoming much more common with players like Sean Day, Joe Veleno and Shane Wright getting exceptional player status recently, and they aren't superstar players.

Wow, just making stuff about his parents. None of what you said is true, at all.

And there was no exceptional status in the CHL until 2005, so there's no way that Crosby could have got it IF the rule never existed.

 

[Half Clapper]

Its probably why you shouldn't comment on stuff when all you just confirmed your only research is a quick glance as a hockey DB page.

I can almost assure you I know the game of hockey and the players better than you do kiddo. I am sorry I made a small error and messed up Pat kanes age though. Will you please forgive me hockey god??

 

[ForsbergForever]

Why does it say he was 17 on hockeydb? This site sucks apparently lol. Either way do not jump the gun too quick. He is not the first and won't be the last player that was overhyped on being "generational". Will have to wait and see what he does.View attachment 672793

Hockeydb uses the player's age as of Sept 15 or thereabouts as the listed age for each season so in certain cases its off by a year.

 

[Half Clapper]

Hockeydb uses the player's age as of Sept 15 or thereabouts as the listed age for each season so in certain cases its off by a year.

Well that is good to know. I prefer eliteprospects, but the site takes forever to load on my computer

 

[Divine]

Crosby played on the second best team in the entire CHL, and one who lost one single playoff game in the Q. His team was stacked. How they're turned out as NHL players is irrelevant to how good they were as junior players. I don't know why you keep ignoring or can't accept that part.

Bedard put up nearly 2ppg as a 15yo.. how exactly can you confidentially say he wasn't as good then when Crosby wasn't even playing in the CHL?

His team was stacked because it had Sidney Crosby, it was not stacked if you remove Sidney Crosby.

Also, because exceptional player status is not a sign of greatness: How is it Crosby's fault they didn't hand out exceptional player status as easily as they do now.

Here's the 3 most recent players granted exceptional status before Bedard:

Sean Day - Drafted 3rd round, 81st overall in 2016
Joe Veleno - Drafted 1st round, 30th overall in 2018
Shane Wright - Drafted 1st round, 4th overall in 2022

Do you think any of those players are going to be Crosby-level in the NHL?

Wow, just making stuff about his parents. None of what you said is true, at all.

And there was no exceptional status in the CHL until 2005, so there's no way that Crosby could have got it IF the rule never existed.

Not true.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/encyclopedia-sidney-crosby/

The Halifax Mooseheads had been thwarted in their attempt to have Crosby granted exceptional-player status the previous season (by the rulebook at the time, Crosby at 15 would have had to play in the province of Nova Scotia). Ultimately, the Crosbys decided he’d be best served by being out of the spotlight in the city of 40,000 on the south shore of the St. Lawrence. Said Crosby in 2004: “Things are perfect [for development] here. Rimouski isn’t a huge town but it’s got what you need. The focus here is the team.”

 

[Bubbles]

Not true.

You quoted yourself and posted a meaningless video. Not much proof there.

 

[Divine]

Are you ignoring the part where Bedard didn't only get exceptional status, but also played at nearly 2ppg in the games he played that season?

That's cute, and then he regressed the next season. Overall as a prospect, Bedard is worse than Crosby. That doesn't mean he's a bad player.

You quoted yourself and posted a meaningless video. Not much proof there.

The link I posted automatically embeds as a video. I have since edited it.

Here's the link:

sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/encyclopedia-sidney-crosby/

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Hey look it is the german who said guenther was bad at the WJC...He will produce without Bedard. He plays the game the right way on both ends of the ice.'

Maybe - but we have seen it with high-end talents before that they have the ability to help players reach offensive ceilings in the CHL that they wouldn't be able to replicate again in any other league.

Sidney Crosby did this with Danny Roussin and MA Pouliot

Patrick Kane did this with Adam Perry and Sergei Kostisyn

McDavid did this with Dane Fox

Lafrieniere did this with Cedric Pare and Issac Belliveau

Howe has looked good in instances I have viewed him before, I like his motor and think he is smart with how he positions himself on the ice and is a good skater. I find he relies too much on Bedard sometimes and needs to take the initiative more, he is also small and I don't know how well the offense will come when he is the primary driver of offense on his team next season - I'm not saying he is bad, not by any stretch; just that he may not be a slam dunk first-round pick in next years draft like you're making it out to be. I'm currently in a "Wait and see" mentality with Howe.

 

[Divine]

He played much better at the WJC at 16 than Crosby did, and played MUCH better than Crosby did at 17.

This is because he actually got to ay with elite junior level players, something he doesn't get a chance to do with Regina.

So you think Bedard is a better prospect than Crosby? We disagree then. I've seen multiple sources that have below the McDavid tier.

No one had Crosby at anything other than generational.

He played much better at the WJC at 16 than Crosby did, and played MUCH better than Crosby did at 17.

This is because he actually got to ay with elite junior level players, something he doesn't get a chance to do with Regina.

Yeah, he played better than McDavid at the WJC too.

His WJC was definitely impressive, but it's harder to compare WJC because there's stronger and weaker teams. Some teams are absolutely stacked and other years the talent is bare. Also, the teams you're playing can be much weaker or stronger depending on schedule and year. There's more deviation in that than in junior.

 

[Bubbles]

The link I posted automatically embeds as a video. I have since edited it.

Here's the link:

sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/encyclopedia-sidney-crosby/

Strange hill to die on, but there was no exceptional rule until 2005, so there was no way Halifax would have got it in 2002 because there was no exceptional rules than.

 

[Half Clapper]

Maybe - but we have seen it with high-end talents before that they have the ability to help players reach offensive ceilings in the CHL that they wouldn't be able to replicate again in any other league.

Sidney Crosby did this with Danny Roussin and MA Pouliot

Patrick Kane did this with Adam Perry and Sergei Kostisyn

McDavid did this with Dane Fox

Lafrieniere did this with Cedric Pare and Issac Belliveau

Howe has looked good in instances I have viewed him before, I like his motor and think he is smart with how he positions himself on the ice and is a good skater. I find he relies too much on Bedard sometimes and needs to take the initiative more, he is also small and I don't know how well the offense will come when he is the primary driver of offense on his team next season - I'm not saying he is bad, not by any stretch; just that he may not be a slam dunk first-round pick in next years draft like you're making it out to be. I'm currently in a "Wait and see" mentality with Howe.

He put up 3 pts in 3 games when Bedard was gone to the WJC, which isn't too bad. Do you find Bedard to be small as well? Because they're almost identical in size.

 

[Divine]

Strange hill to die on, but there was no exceptional rule until 2005, so there was no way Halifax would have got it in 2002 because there was no exceptional rules than.

Well, that's what the source said and I've heard. I'm not the only one that's heard it either - so you can at least stop suggesting I'm making it up for some benefit that I have yet to determine.

Maybe, and this may be hard to accept, you're the one that's wrong?

 

[GermanSpitfire]

He put up 3 pts in 3 games when Bedard was gone to the WJC, which isn't too bad. Do you find Bedard to be small as well? Because they're almost identical in size.

Too small of a sample size to say anything with any conviction one way or another, to be honest.

I do think Bedard is small, but he transcends his size concerns because of his skill, IQ and how strong he is on his skates.

 

[Bubbles]

Well, that's what the source said and I've heard. I'm not the only one that's heard it either - so you can at least stop suggesting I'm making it up for some benefit that I have yet to determine.

Maybe, and this may be hard to accept, you're the one that's wrong?

Which is why you keep posting sources that are not reliable at all, twitter and a discussion from two hosts?

None of what you say is documented on wikipedia, or any other hockey resource.

I would suggest the same to you, but you seem to have dug your heels in about Bedard.

 

[Divine]

Which is why you keep posting sources that are not reliable at all, twitter and a discussion from two hosts?

None of what you say is documented on wikipedia, or any other hockey resource.

I would suggest the same to you, but you seem to have dug your heels in about Bedard.

How was sportsnet not a reliable source?

If the only reliable source is the one in your head, no one can debate with you.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/encyclopedia-sidney-crosby/

The Halifax Mooseheads had been thwarted in their attempt to have Crosby granted exceptional-player status the previous season (by the rulebook at the time, Crosby at 15 would have had to play in the province of Nova Scotia). Ultimately, the Crosbys decided he’d be best served by being out of the spotlight in the city of 40,000 on the south shore of the St. Lawrence. Said Crosby in 2004: “Things are perfect [for development] here. Rimouski isn’t a huge town but it’s got what you need. The focus here is the team.”

How did Spezza play at 15 in the OHL in 1998 if it was impossible? Can you please explain that then?

 

[MichaelFarrell]

Hey look it is the german who said guenther was bad at the WJC...He will produce without Bedard. He plays the game the right way on both ends of the ice.


You're clueless lol. His 8 pts at the WJC were because of bedard too?!?!?

He had a great WJC but if you think he’s nearly tied for points for defenseman in the WHL you are clueless.

 

[Half Clapper]

He had a great WJC but if you think he’s nearly tied for points for defenseman in the WHL you are clueless.

He is a good player though, and you said the Pats didn't have any good players...

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Strange hill to die on, but there was no exceptional rule until 2005, so there was no way Halifax would have got it in 2002 because there was no exceptional rules than.

Jason Spezza played as a 15-year-old in the OHL because he played for his hometown team, no? - he then had to enter the OHL draft process after the season was concluded. I could be off here but I believe that is what he is referring to.

Edit: I see he has already explained this

 

[Half Clapper]

Too small of a sample size to say anything with any conviction one way or another, to be honest.

I do think Bedard is small, but he transcends his size concerns because of his skill, IQ and how strong he is on his skates.

Ya I am just stating what he did in those 3 games. I like the way he plays and I won't be surprised if he puts up close to 90 pts again next year. Have you seen him live at all?

 

[Bubbles]

Jason Spezza played as a 15-year-old in the OHL because he played for his hometown team, no? - he then had to enter the OHL draft process after the season was concluded. I could be off here but I believe that is what he is referring to.

Edit: I see he has already explained this

Those rules were the underage rules prior to the Exceptional Status rules established in 2005. Which was more of my argument.

Edit: I guess I have issues with the user saying "Crosby's parents did not want to get exceptional status" when the words "Exceptional Status" had no meaning back then. The parents merely didn't want the focus to be on Sid at 15,, which is why he went to Shattucks.

 

[McFlash97]

I'm pretty sure last I checked McDavid has always been a second half player. Meaning he goes supernova after the 40 game mark. Even if first half is still impressive. If McDavid played the full rookie season he hits 100 with ease.

 

[Divine]

Those rules were the underage rules prior to the Exceptional Status rules established in 2005. Which was more of my argument.

What are you talking about? My whole argument is the reason Crosby did NOT play in major junior at 15 is because him/his parents did not want him playing in his hometown. He had the option to do so. You claimed he could not play at 15, because it was impossble.

You suggested I made up the idea that Crosby could play prior to 16, and now you're agreeing that he could. It makes no sense. Instead of accepting you were wrong, you changed your whole argument to mine.

So your new argument is that Crosby could have played but choose not to? Great, we agree then. What did I make up?

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Which is why you keep posting sources that are not reliable at all, twitter and a discussion from two hosts?

None of what you say is documented on wikipedia, or any other hockey resource.

I would suggest the same to you, but you seem to have dug your heels in about Bedard.

Wikipedia is your standard for credible sources? Lmfao