C Connor Bedard (2023, 1st, CHI) Part 6

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It’s all about team and cap management. The Penguins were able to do it for years.

When Crosby first signed his $8.7 million contract, it was a 17.3% cap hit. McDavid’s contract is only 16.6% and he should most definitely be at the league max.

You can have good depth players while also paying your top players. But, where you get into trouble is when you overpay for guys like Jack Campbell and Darnell Nurse. In the case of Edmonton, it’s purely incompetent cap and team management.

Bridge contracts can also be a big hindrance to a team long term. It’s a double-edge sword though. Do you know how much more money Jack Hughes or Tim Stützle could be making if they took a two year bridge? Both of those guys look like franchise players and make very reasonable contracts.
Penguins got by on one of those now illegal deals that frontloaded salary with a boatload of term to drive down AAV, the Crosby deal is no longer applicable or relevant.
 
On development alone, where would you say the best place for him to land is among the tanking teams? Places with 1) Good coach 2) Good culture 3) Teammates who can take some pressure off him


Columbus:
Terrible coach (though probably replaced) and Laine and Gaudreau are questionable leaders

San Jose:
Couture could help him and Karlsson is a star to take the pressure off. Would be a good spot

Chicago:
Tire fire.

Anaheim:
I'd trade Zegras if I was them and won the lottery and then build around him and McTavish down the middle. Henrique is a good vet to have around but would be nice to add some two-way vets to teach him to play the right way.

Montreal:
I think this would be a solid spot. Martin St Louis is good and there's a decent mix of vets. The pressure would be be insane though.

Arizona:
A bit less of a tire fire than Chicago. The players seem to care and they have a good goalie. Ownership is a disaster though.

Philly:
Torts would teach him the right way to play. Team culture seems to be a problem though.

Vancouver:
I like Tocchet as a good coach for him and there's a good mix of vets. Playing in his home town could be good or bad. Tons of pressure.

St Louis
At the start of the year I would have said that's the best spot, not so sure now.

Detroit:
Yzerman would be good, not so sure about Lalonde. Larkin, Seider and Raymond would take some pressure off. Would be a good spot for him.

Washington:
That would be unfair but obviously being around Ovie would shield him some.
Bedard somehow landing with Washington probably the ultimate shield, imho, with the experience there. And yeah it would suck for those teams drafting to have a team in a likely position that Washington will end in to be leap frogged. But would be entertaining.
 
Question:

Does Bedard have an edge??
Does he ever taunt his opponents after he scores?
Does he retaliate when people take runs at him?
Can he protect himself?
 
On development alone, where would you say the best place for him to land is among the tanking teams? Places with 1) Good coach 2) Good culture 3) Teammates who can take some pressure off him


Columbus:
Terrible coach (though probably replaced) and Laine and Gaudreau are questionable leaders

San Jose:
Couture could help him and Karlsson is a star to take the pressure off. Would be a good spot

Chicago:
Tire fire.

Anaheim:
I'd trade Zegras if I was them and won the lottery and then build around him and McTavish down the middle. Henrique is a good vet to have around but would be nice to add some two-way vets to teach him to play the right way.

Montreal:
I think this would be a solid spot. Martin St Louis is good and there's a decent mix of vets. The pressure would be be insane though.

Arizona:
A bit less of a tire fire than Chicago. The players seem to care and they have a good goalie. Ownership is a disaster though.

Philly:
Torts would teach him the right way to play. Team culture seems to be a problem though.

Vancouver:
I like Tocchet as a good coach for him and there's a good mix of vets. Playing in his home town could be good or bad. Tons of pressure.

St Louis
At the start of the year I would have said that's the best spot, not so sure now.

Detroit:
Yzerman would be good, not so sure about Lalonde. Larkin, Seider and Raymond would take some pressure off. Would be a good spot for him.

Washington:
That would be unfair but obviously being around Ovie would shield him some.
I wouldn’t say tire fire for the Hawks as they made some very good selections last draft and have a ton of picks in the next few and coach Luke Richardson is a very good coach. I will agree with what’s there right now to play alongside is very limited.
 
Question:

Does Bedard have an edge??
Does he ever taunt his opponents after he scores?
Does he retaliate when people take runs at him?
Can he protect himself?
He's always running his mouth lol. Not afraid to mix it up a bit either, but can similarly get frustrated. I don't think it takes him off his game too easily, he's actually pretty good at harnessing that frustration into something productive, though sometimes he takes it too far and plays too much hero hockey.

But he's not a guy who's going to "fight his own battles", nor should he.
 
Back to normal after his "mini slump" (at least for his standards). 2 goals and 2 assists in a 6-3 win against Brandon. 63 goals now for the year. Impressive
Another tough schedule coming up with a triple header in like 48 hours starting friday.
 
Since I feel like the discourse here is a bit empty and and with a very heavy domain use of eliteprospects, I'm curious. I don't watch a lot of prospects outside of Sweden unless it's international. I have seen a small share of Bedard games outside of highlights, and I am curious. Has anyone here watched a significant amount of Bedard games(and preferably prospect Mcdavid) and for real thinks he projects at the same level? From my limited viewings, I feel like Bedard is probably still the best draft year prospect in 5+ years, and I feel like there is no chance he won't score a LOT in the league, but I have a hard time seeing him guaranteed having a overall impact on the game as the "generational" tag everyone throws around would indicate, at least in let's say the first 5 years of his career.

Curious to hear opinions of people that watched the games! Please don't throw any goals and assists comparisons to previous CHL prospects at me, because I do not care.
I watch him live quite a bit (including 2 more coming up next week). I also got to see McDavid live a few times in the OHL though not as much as I have Bedard.

McDavid was a special player, you don't see players like him. He played with really good players but he was always by far the best player on the ice.

You can always see Bedard's skill but not in the same way as McDavid. He's a special player but not quite in the same way. He's got the superstar quality to him, all eyes get drawn to him, but he just never felt above the game like McDavid did. McDavid felt a degree of seperation from the sport itself, him rushing with the puck just seemed inevitable. Bedard just feels like the best player in the ice, he feels dangerous with the puck and he feels like he could score on any sustained pressure but it isn't the same as McDavid felt.

I hear a Panarin comparison for Bedard quite a bit but that doesn't feel right to me either. Bedard is the type of player who's going to be great in a system and who's going to have game breaking moments in games but he just doesn't have the complete dominance of McDavid. Bedard gets stuffed out to the boards on zone entries which leads to muffin shots from the outside, something that McDavid is just too fast for. Bedard gets breakaways from cheating behind plays and letting his teammates get him the puck, McDavid could rush it from anywhere. McDavid could rush in and take the puck using his stick and speed to win battles, Bedard has to rely on teammates to win battles. I could go on, McDavid was a far more NHL ready prospect at the same age and his offense was 100% NHL projectable, Bedard has a bit more development ahead of him. McDavid never had Bedard's shooting though.

It's the little things but no, Bedard likely won't produce at McDavid's level. Bedard's skills will also be better suited to being an elite offensive winger too.

Is Bedard’s team expected to make the memorial cup?
No, not even close. They are quite a bit beneath a lot of other WHL clubs. They aren't likely to even win the first round.
 
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That’s a shame. The junior team should have done a better job building around him.
Not much they could've done. They were just a few years out of being all in on a Memorial Cup run.

Edit: Worth mentioning too. It's looking like they'll play Saskatoon in the first round of the playoffs. Regina isn't one or two good players away from competing with Saskatoon, they'd need quite a bit to stand a chance. And after that stands the Winnipeg Ice, Regina couldn't have built a team to be competitive with them. Having the Blades and Ice in their division was just a deathblow to their chances anyways, it was a bad year for them to be competitive.
 
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Bedard is good friends with Kent Johnson plus there’s Gaudreau and Laine to center, that’s besides numerous elite prospects we have including Dumais who’s got similar numbers to Bedard in CHL.

Pretty sure Bedard will be fine going to Columbus
Thats.. pretty disingenuous

Dumais is on a team with the #2 and #3 players in points in the QMJ, a notoriously poor league to judge high point totals in (21yos Doucet and Lawrence)

Bedard is on a team where the next closest player is 51 points behind him. For reference, Dumais is only ahead of his teammates by 21 and 22 points respectively. Add in the year difference and WHL's harder competition..

Dumais might be a nice prospect but I wouldn't let those numbers affect how you evaluate him versus draft day. All that changed was his team acquiring two 21yo's who were also going off this year (well Doucet prior, Lawrence not so much until he got there)
 
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Thats.. pretty disingenuous

Dumais is on a team with the #2 and #3 players in points in the QMJ, a notoriously poor league to judge high point totals in (21yos Doucet and Lawrence)

Bedard is on a team where the next closest player is 51 points behind him. For reference, Dumais is only ahead of his teammates by 21 and 22 points respectively. Add in the year difference and WHL's harder competition..

Dumais might be a nice prospect but I wouldn't let those numbers affect how you evaluate him versus draft day. All that changed was his team acquiring two 21yo's who were also going off this year (well Doucet prior, Lawrence not so much until he got there)

Foolish to diss on Dumais..

Also...if you would have followed his or Halifax season..
Another also, this season; QMJHL > WHL, that shows you haven't followed much CHL this season
- in a fact Dumais has faced the toughest competition this season

1. Jordan Dumais (18 yrs old) 126 points
2. Markus Vidicek (18 yrs old) 77 points
3. Mathieu Cataford (17 yrs old) 72 points
4. Josh Lawrence (21 yrs old) 72 points
5. Attila Biasca (19 yrs old) 53 points
6. Alexander Doucet (21 yrs old) 52 points

your 2 players what you mentioned are 21 year old undrafted
who's next address is either ECHL, AHL if they are lucky, or USport, who started their seasons with
different teams
 
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Foolish to diss on Dumais..

Also...if you would have followed his or Halifax season..
Another also, this season; QMJHL > WHL, that shows you haven't followed much CHL this season
- in a fact Dumais has faced the toughest competition this season

1. Jordan Dumais (18 yrs old) 126 points
2. Markus Vidicek (18 yrs old) 77 points
3. Mathieu Cataford (17 yrs old) 72 points
4. Josh Lawrence (21 yrs old) 72 points
5. Attila Biasca (19 yrs old) 53 points
6. Alexander Doucet (21 yrs old) 52 points

your 2 players what you mentioned are 21 year old undrafted
who's next address is either ECHL, AHL if they are lucky, or USport, who started their seasons with
different teams
not listing Lawrence and Doucet's points before they got to the team? Thats.. weirdly convenient. They're both over 100 points

Looks a lot better when you do that huh. And it doesnt matter what league those 21yo's are destined for, they're producing now as overagers. Also harder comp in the QMJ huh? Again, pretty weird you omit that Halifax is #2 in the league

And I didn't 'diss' on Dumais; I simply stated that its absurd to compare his stats to Bedard's and theres clear circumstantial reasoning for his production outside of 'star potential'
 
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not listing Lawrence and Doucet's points before they got to the team? Thats.. weirdly convenient. They're both over 100 points

Looks a lot better when you do that huh. And it doesnt matter what league those 21yo's are destined for, they're producing now as overagers. Also harder comp in the QMJ huh? Again, pretty weird you omit that Halifax is #2 in the league

And I didn't 'diss' on Dumais; I simply stated that its absurd to compare his stats to Bedard's and theres clear circumstantial reasoning for his production outside of 'star potential'
Dumais was leading the league by more in scoring before Halifax traded for Lawrence and Doucet. More of the offense had to go through him. Comparing Dumais and Bedard is obviously silly but trying to slant Dumais production as a product of Lawrence and Doucet is also flat out wrong as well.
 
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Dumais was leading the league by more in scoring before Halifax traded for Lawrence and Doucet. More of the offense had to go through him. Comparing Dumais and Bedard is obviously silly but trying to slant Dumais production as a product of Lawrence and Doucet is also flat out wrong as well.
I never said his production was a product of them nor does it matter. The point of mentioning the other two was to give perspective on Bedard having 30+ more points in gap between teammates than Dumais does; as well as not being on the #2 team in the W like Dumais is (in the Q)

Also Dumais was third in scoring in the Q last year and still was drafted in the third round; so its pretty evident most scouts think as I do in that QMJHL high totals are almost always fugazi. Whats come out of the Q in the last decade is really poor versus other leagues.

William Dufour went from 29 in 26 games to 116 in 66 games (at 21); do we seriously think he became that much of a higher ceiling prospect that year? If not then why should I view Dumais as anything more than the third round he was taken in; which is what he is except now hes with the next two in league scoring as well, otherwise his numbers remain the same as last year most likely (aka no substantial improvement in a league now known for poor development)
 
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I never said his production was a product of them nor does it matter. The point of mentioning the other two was to give perspective on Bedard having 30+ more points in gap between teammates than Dumais does; as well as not being on the #2 team in the W like Dumais is (in the Q)

Also Dumais was third in scoring in the Q last year and still was drafted in the third round; so its pretty evident most scouts think as I do in that QMJHL high totals are almost always fugazi. Whats come out of the Q in the last decade is really poor versus other leagues.

William Dufour went from 29 in 26 games to 116 in 66 games (at 21); do we seriously think he became that much of a higher ceiling prospect that year? If not then why should I view Dumais as anything more than the third round he was taken in; which is what he is except now hes with the next two in league scoring as well, otherwise his numbers remain the same as last year most likely (aka no substantial improvement in a league now known for poor development)
I mean what came out of the Q in the last decade is pretty damn comparable to what came out of the WHL. I think it is silly to act like scouts are never wrong and never miss on a player. There is a pretty good chance a lot of people were wrong about Dumais, that stuff happens. It is also interesting you said you didn't say his production was a product of Lawrence and Doucet but then finish off your post by then qualify his production improvement based off of those two being added onto the team when first off like I said his production actually slowed with the addition of those two as the offense was more spread out and secondly....all three play on different lines. Any of the Bedard talk with Dumais is straight up foolish but I am not here for any of this talk about the Q being some third rate league. Put together an all current team WHL and a current team QMJHL. I could atleast respect your opinion if you were regularly watching the Mooseheads like I do...but yeah I don't respect it at all.
 
I never said his production was a product of them nor does it matter. The point of mentioning the other two was to give perspective on Bedard having 30+ more points in gap between teammates than Dumais does; as well as not being on the #2 team in the W like Dumais is (in the Q)

Also Dumais was third in scoring in the Q last year and still was drafted in the third round; so its pretty evident most scouts think as I do in that QMJHL high totals are almost always fugazi. Whats come out of the Q in the last decade is really poor versus other leagues.

William Dufour went from 29 in 26 games to 116 in 66 games (at 21); do we seriously think he became that much of a higher ceiling prospect that year? If not then why should I view Dumais as anything more than the third round he was taken in; which is what he is except now hes with the next two in league scoring as well, otherwise his numbers remain the same as last year most likely (aka no substantial improvement in a league now known for poor development)

Dufour was not 21. He put up 116 points as an 02 when "overage" players in the Q were 01s. He's the same age as Lawrence and Doucet and could've played in the Q again this year. The 26 game sample is also strange to pick on since he scored 17 goals in those games on a rebuilding Drummondville team.

He was a beast at the Memorial Cup, excellent at the summer World Junior and is also having a great rookie season in the AHL. He's a good prospect.
 
I mean what came out of the Q in the last decade is pretty damn comparable to what came out of the WHL. I think it is silly to act like scouts are never wrong and never miss on a player. There is a pretty good chance a lot of people were wrong about Dumais, that stuff happens. It is also interesting you said you didn't say his production was a product of Lawrence and Doucet but then finish off your post by then qualify his production improvement based off of those two being added onto the team when first off like I said his production actually slowed with the addition of those two as the offense was more spread out and secondly....all three play on different lines. Any of the Bedard talk with Dumais is straight up foolish but I am not here for any of this talk about the Q being some third rate league. Put together an all current team WHL and a current team QMJHL. I could atleast respect your opinion if you were regularly watching the Mooseheads like I do...but yeah I don't respect it at all.
Well Im glad you support the junior leagues; always wanted a local team but wasnt done

but that wont change that yes, the QMJHL has been a third rate league the last decade for whats been pushed out of there.. but after some digging it may be the WHL is worse than I thought and is right there with them

And this is coming from a Devils fan where three of my best forwards are Q players.

Since the 2013 draft (and we ALL know thats being kind) from the Q you have;

2013 - MacKinnon, Weegar, Graves, Mantha, Drouin
2014 - Ehlers, Barbashev
2015 - Meier, Chabot, Beauvilier, Sprong, Garland, Carrier
2016 - Dubois, Girard
2017 - Hischier, Batherson
2018 - Dobson
2019 - Pinard, Pelletier
2020 - Mercer, Lafreniere

Perhaps I missed a few names and we still have guys in recent drafts making their ways up the ranks; so we will be fair and give them some time

2013 - 2020 WHL
13 - Jones, Morrissey, Bjorkstrand, Pulock, Jarry
14 - Draisaitl, Reinhart, Point, Sanheim
15 - Provorov, Barzal, Carlo
16 - Hart, Bean
17 - Jokiharju, Skinner
18 - None
19 - Cozens, Dach
20 - Jarvis, Schneider

QMJHL players were taken top-2 rounds 63 times in those drafts. WHL was taken 80 times.

So the WHL is definitely weaker than I remembered. But that doesnt change that the Q is, in fact, a third rate development league now... It just also means so is the WHL. Plus my statement of 'harder comp' was mainly tied in to Bedard's team being much lower in the standings than the Mooseheads in the Q.

So I still stand by most of what I said about Dumais other than the fact that I remembered the W a little more fondly than I probably should have. Its likely no better than the Q - but both are garbage by today's standards with the rise of USNDTP and Europe (and the O always reigns supreme)

Fun little research project though. And no matter how I see it (or was wrong about the W) I wish Dumais and Bedard the best and may Dumais prove me wrong and supply me with some tasty crow in a few years time.

Dufour was not 21. He put up 116 points as an 02 when "overage" players in the Q were 01s. He's the same age as Lawrence and Doucet and could've played in the Q again this year. The 26 game sample is also strange to pick on since he scored 17 goals in those games on a rebuilding Drummondville team.

He was a beast at the Memorial Cup, excellent at the summer World Junior and is also having a great rookie season in the AHL. He's a good prospect.
I know hes a good prospect, got a few Isles buddies of mine.

My point was Juniors numbers fluctuate so violently sometimes when theres shifts in balance between teams. 17 goals in 29 games or not, going to 100+ in only 30+ more games is a major leap. And idt anyone would say he got considerably better during that span (he was always a good prospect) but the numbers would have you thinking he grew a third arm
 
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Foolish to diss on Dumais..

Also...if you would have followed his or Halifax season..
Another also, this season; QMJHL > WHL, that shows you haven't followed much CHL this season
- in a fact Dumais has faced the toughest competition this season

1. Jordan Dumais (18 yrs old) 126 points
2. Markus Vidicek (18 yrs old) 77 points
3. Mathieu Cataford (17 yrs old) 72 points
4. Josh Lawrence (21 yrs old) 72 points
5. Attila Biasca (19 yrs old) 53 points
6. Alexander Doucet (21 yrs old) 52 points

your 2 players what you mentioned are 21 year old undrafted
who's next address is either ECHL, AHL if they are lucky, or USport, who started their seasons with
different teams
The WHL is very easily the better league and more difficult to produce in, especially this season. The Q has some great teams, but there's also lot less depth at the bottom of most lineups compared to the WHL, which makes it much easier for the league's top guys to produce.

And still:

Bedard 1.21 gpg 2.48 ppg 17 y/o
Dumais 0.83 gpg 2.14 ppg 18 y/o

Dumais is nowhere near Bedard's level. That's not meant to be a "diss". It's just reality.
 

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