C Auston Matthews - ZSC Lions, NLA (2016 Draft) III

[QnebO]

I wouldn't only consider the 1.29ppg per se but rather that Matthews is 9th in scoring and tied 1# for goals with 10-14 games less than the competitors. The GPG isn't a factor in that comparison. The Finns aren't anywhere near the top and they are in their second season too.

Laine is almost year younger and playing in tougher league. Pulju started just recently get PP time and more minutes (after WJC).

 

[QnebO]

Younger compared to Matthews*

 

[BusQuets]

Have to remember that NLA outside of two or three teams are MESTIS level iirc. I think Puljujarvi and Laine would rattle 1.5ppg in NLA.

 

[LoveNHL]

I wouldn't only consider the 1.29ppg per se but rather that Matthews is 9th in scoring and tied 1# for goals with 10-14 games less than the competitors. The GPG isn't a factor in that comparison. The Finns aren't anywhere near the top and they are in their second season too.

I am a considering Matthews as the top prospect. The two Finns, especially Laine is showing a fantastic development curve. Last game Laine played was really good. He had hatty and could been much more. The consistency and the position as center makes Matthews the top choise. He is now being challenged tough. Interesting months are ahead of us.

 

[Beukeboom]

Have to remember that NLA outside of two or three teams are MESTIS level iirc. I think Puljujarvi and Laine would rattle 1.5ppg in NLA.

So you say. More ex NHL'ers to compete with in the Swiss league for the top scoring positions. Also Granlund, Teravainen and Barkov were ppg players in the finnish league . This years finns are on Armia's level and history shows that finns of recent times have a long transition-period if they reach their potential at all.

I have a very very hard time believing that the finns would produce more than Matthews in the Swiss league. There is aboslutely nothing that points to that..

 

[BusQuets]

So you say. More ex NHL'ers to compete with in the Swiss league for the top scoring positions. Also Granlund, Teravainen and Barkov were ppg players in the finnish league . This years finns are on Armia's level and history shows that finns of recent times have a long transition-period if they reach their potential at all.

I have a very very hard time believing that the finns would produce more than Matthews in the Swiss league. There is aboslutely nothing that points to that..

You focus on top players which is completely irrelevant. The teams suck(outside 2-3) and the depth suck and that's why every one of those players would have destroyed NLA on their draft year.

 

[QnebO]

So you say. More ex NHL'ers to compete with in the Swiss league for the top scoring positions. Also Granlund, Teravainen and Barkov were ppg players in the finnish league . This years finns are on Armia's level and history shows that finns of recent times have a long transition-period if they reach their potential at all.

I have a very very hard time believing that the finns would produce more than Matthews in the Swiss league. There is aboslutely nothing that points to that..

Their production in WJC kinda proves their level scoring wise. They were at whole alot easier playing field in the WJC, where they could dominate.

 

[Beukeboom]

Their production in WJC kinda proves their level scoring wise. They were at whole alot easier playing field in the WJC, where they could dominate.

Which is why the WJC is more irrelevant to scouts than people here want it to be. 1.5 weeks a year against kids doesn't make you a star player, producing against grown ups does. Matthews has and the finns struggled. Seems like Laine is picking up pace however.

Matthews is more mature and he is ready for NHL. He has the best chance of producing from day one and given his american point record beating Kane he most likely is deemed to have the highest potential as well.

Being coached by Marc Crawford was a genious idea. If Columbus gets the #1 pic they should fire Torts who has become insane and bring Crawford back to the big league along with Matthews.

 

[QnebO]

Which is why the WJC is more irrelevant to scouts than people here want it to be. 1.5 weeks a year against kids doesn't make you a star player, producing against grown ups does. Matthews has and the finns struggled. Seems like Laine is picking up pace however.
.

Since we disagree about NLA being as good as Liiga, there is no point to continue anymore. Pulju hasn't even played in the top lines untill now, due to level of the league. You can't disagree on the facts part though, if theres 4,8 goals per game average in FEL and 5,9 in NLA.

 

[QnebO]

In reality, it's whole different story if you dominate FEL or SEL for example. Even Mikko Koivu, Valtteri Filppula werent over PPG in FEL in lockout season. So why would 17 year old prospect need to be that in order to be succesfull?? Barring Erik Karlsson, Liiga was competitive for NHL players. Besides, Erik Karlsson dominates everywhere..

 

[Stavros]

Confirmation bias is strong in this thread.

 

[FinPanda]

Even the Finnish U20 coach said Matthews will be the 1st overall pick.

 

[Spade]

You focus on top players which is completely irrelevant. The teams suck(outside 2-3) and the depth suck and that's why every one of those players would have destroyed NLA on their draft year.

I think it's important to note the quality of the players at the top of each league when considering Matthews' stats and its context. It's not like he's getting 3rd line minutes against weaker competition. He plays top 6 minutes against other team's quality players. No coach is stupid enough to try and match against the ZSC Lions' best forward with their 4th line grinders.

Matthews sees the opponent's 1st and 2nd lines, players who are comparable to the top players found within the rest of Europe. The teams at the bottom of the league indeed suck, but within the playoff group those teams would all be of comparable quality to teams in other leagues. Maybe lower end teams in the Liiga, but still within the realm of being able to compete.

The difference between the Liiga and the Swiss League isn't like the difference between the NHL and the AHL, it's probably closer to the difference between a league like the QMJHL and a league like the USHL. Yes, on the whole the QMJHL has more depth per team, but the best players in the USHL would still be among the best players in the Q and we're seeing plenty of top US players drafted high recently.

The Liiga is definitely better top to bottom, but Matthews' scoring totals are rewriting record books. That counts for something in a league with its fair share of ex-NHLers. On the other hand, I don't hear anyone talking down on Puljujarvi and Laine considering they play in a league with the Espoo Blues, Ilves, and HPK and only have modest point totals.

Puljujarvi and Laine are good and likely coming of the boards 2 and 3 (and not necessarily in that order) but I don't know if they'd produce at a similar level to Matthews in the same situation. They're playing depth minutes right now and doing quite well, all things considered, but can they walk in and be the best player on the best team in the Swiss league? Hard to say.

I will say that the Liiga is harder to score in, but whether or not that makes it "better" in terms of quality of team/players is something that cannot be statistically confirmed. For all we know, it could simply come down to quality of goaltending.

 

[CauZuki]

Didn't want to start a new thread for this , where would you guys put him if he was in the 2015 draft?

 

[Rebels57]

Didn't want to start a new thread for this , where would you guys put him if he was in the 2015 draft?

Either 2nd or 3rd behind McDavid but possibly ahead of Eichel. They are very close.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

You focus on top players which is completely irrelevant. The teams suck(outside 2-3) and the depth suck and that's why every one of those players would have destroyed NLA on their draft year.

Not necessarily. Patrick Kane barely broke PPG in the NLA during the lockout.

 

[Stavros]

In last two season liiga teams have played 18 chl-games against nla-teams, in these games nla-teams have averaged 1.8 gpg compared to 2.9 gpg in nla. No way Matthews would put up those numbers against finnish teams. Point being that the points scored in different leagues are not comparable.

 

[Ippenator]

In last two season liiga teams have played 18 chl-games against nla-teams, in these games nla-teams have averaged 1.8 gpg compared to 2.9 gpg in nla. No way Matthews would put up those numbers against finnish teams. Point being that the points scored in different leagues are not comparable.

Very good and valid point. Especially North American people here tend to forget that Finnish teams play extremely tight defensive game and have also mostly great goaltending. Just look at our national teams. They consistently keep even more skilled and offensive minded nations low on scoring, and often win them like this too. This is what FEL is consistently about also. Can't say that it is that much fun to watch in general though. But at least it keeps providing our national teams with very internationally competitive players.

 

[holyprime]

Have to remember that NLA outside of two or three teams are MESTIS level iirc. I think Puljujarvi and Laine would rattle 1.5ppg in NLA.

Over 9ppg even

To put Matthews performance here into perspective (youngest is Duchene at 22y):
Tavares 1.5ppg
Zetterberg 1.39ppg
Bergeron/Seguin 1.38ppg
Duchene 1.25ppg (4 games)
Matthews 1.23ppg
Kane 1.15ppg
Thornton 1.09ppg
Spezza 1.07ppg
Nash 1.06ppg

And its not just stats, he is frequently among the best players on the ice, while still developing his game. Since a few games he's also used on the PK and at least not looking out of place (i wouldn't say he's been great there, but he's improving).

He is a key cog on a team that would certainly be among the better in the AHL (let's give it up to compare it to the massively supreme Liiga), and i absolutely loathe the ZSC (rival since about 15 years). There is no doubt in my mind that whoever gets him won't regret it.

 

[VictorLustig]

Have to remember that NLA outside of two or three teams are MESTIS level iirc. I think Puljujarvi and Laine would rattle 1.5ppg in NLA.

So you think Laine & Puljujarvi would produce more than Omark did? I think not.

 

[Beukeboom]

In last two season liiga teams have played 18 chl-games against nla-teams, in these games nla-teams have averaged 1.8 gpg compared to 2.9 gpg in nla. No way Matthews would put up those numbers against finnish teams. Point being that the points scored in different leagues are not comparable.

No one said he'd put up the same numbers in the finish league. We said however that he is tied #1 in goals and on the 9th place in scoring with 10-14 games less than the competitors. So disregarding ppg he is clearly doing a lot better than Laine and Puljujarvi are doing in Finland. This is something that scouts like to see, how you perform against men. The finns got crazy about WJC but based on points there you'd think Ratislav Olez or Schenn would be better players than Crosby. Also it was said that Laine was excellent and Matthews was decent at best which is interesting given that they were tied #1 in goals. So it appears an underperforming Matthews is as good as a Laine playing his best ever.

 

[Beukeboom]

Over 9ppg even

To put Matthews performance here into perspective (youngest is Duchene at 22y):
Tavares 1.5ppg
Zetterberg 1.39ppg
Bergeron/Seguin 1.38ppg
Duchene 1.25ppg (4 games)
Matthews 1.23ppg
Kane 1.15ppg
Thornton 1.09ppg
Spezza 1.07ppg
Nash 1.06ppg

And its not just stats, he is frequently among the best players on the ice, while still developing his game. Since a few games he's also used on the PK and at least not looking out of place (i wouldn't say he's been great there, but he's improving).

He is a key cog on a team that would certainly be among the better in the AHL (let's give it up to compare it to the massively supreme Liiga), and i absolutely loathe the ZSC (rival since about 15 years). There is no doubt in my mind that whoever gets him won't regret it.

He is actually at 1.29 now

 

[scipio]

Over 9ppg even

To put Matthews performance here into perspective (youngest is Duchene at 22y):
Tavares 1.5ppg
Zetterberg 1.39ppg
Bergeron/Seguin 1.38ppg
Duchene 1.25ppg (4 games)
Matthews 1.23ppg
Kane 1.15ppg
Thornton 1.09ppg
Spezza 1.07ppg
Nash 1.06ppg

And its not just stats, he is frequently among the best players on the ice, while still developing his game. Since a few games he's also used on the PK and at least not looking out of place (i wouldn't say he's been great there, but he's improving).

He is a key cog on a team that would certainly be among the better in the AHL (let's give it up to compare it to the massively supreme Liiga), and i absolutely loathe the ZSC (rival since about 15 years). There is no doubt in my mind that whoever gets him won't regret it.

Thanks for posting these numbers, was tempted to do this many times before but never had the time

It's hilarious to see how some fanboys think that the two great Finnish prospects would outperform solid NHL players like Thornton, Nash or Kane...

 

[wings5]

No doubt in my mind that Matthews would produce at least the same level Barkov did in his predraft season if not better.

 

[Ippenator]

No doubt in my mind that Matthews would produce at least the same level Barkov did in his predraft season if not better.

Of course you would at least want him to be able to do that. It's a totally different story if he could really do it. I very strongly doubt that he could get much more points per game in FEL than Laine. If even that many. In my opinion Barkov is quite clearly a more promising player than Matthews. And I think that Laine has even more potential than Barkov. At least in being a high scoring forward. Each one of them will be a star player in the future. I just strongly believe that Laine will be the biggest star of them.