C Auston Matthews - ZSC Lions, NLA (2016 Draft) III

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scipio

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Apr 21, 2015
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Sucks he couldn't show that in WJC.

I don't want to argue as I haven't seen many WJC games and I honestly don't care to much who's going to be the number one pick.

I just feel like people care a bit too much about his performance during this tournament. Just looking at his numbers, he was not that bad anyways. I've read that people feel that he only scored against weaker opponents and that he did not make the difference in the important games. That might be true for this tournament. However, as he plays for my team in the NLA, I watched most of his games. And as a matter of fact he scored quite some important goals, some were game winning goals, other goals helped us to "turn the momentum" when the team seemed to struggle and was losing ground. So from my point of view he definitely can make the difference in a game...
 

BusQuets

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Jul 16, 2010
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Sucks he couldn't show that in WJC.

Or in the CHL, or anywhere he has played at the same level as Laine and Puljujarvi... Raises some red flags for sure. Gets outplayed by them everytime they play on the same level.. Small sample size but still...
 

VictorLustig

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Feb 8, 2012
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Or in the CHL, or anywhere he has played at the same level as Laine and Puljujarvi... Raises some red flags for sure. Gets outplayed by them everytime they play on the same level.. Small sample size but still...

He's never been outplayed by either of them. And about the CHL.... Mathews has played ONE game and it's not like the Finns have better stats from that tournament.

And what about the U18's last spring?

I don't want to argue as I haven't seen many WJC games and I honestly don't care to much who's going to be the number one pick.

I just feel like people care a bit too much about his performance during this tournament. Just looking at his numbers, he was not that bad anyways. I've read that people feel that he only scored against weaker opponents and that he did not make the difference in the important games. That might be true for this tournament. However, as he plays for my team in the NLA, I watched most of his games. And as a matter of fact he scored quite some important goals, some were game winning goals, other goals helped us to "turn the momentum" when the team seemed to struggle and was losing ground. So from my point of view he definitely can make the difference in a game...

He was pretty easily the best American against Sweden, both in the group game and Bronze game. He didn't get a point in those games but with better bounces he could have 6-7 points.

Matthews was without a doubt the most talented player I saw in that tournament
 

BusQuets

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I see lot of excuses for Matthews.. could've, should've, would've... You would think that the #1 overall wouldn't need that many excuses.. Especially after being outplayed by Laine and Puljujarvi in the wjc and chl... We will see i guess...
 

scipio

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Apr 21, 2015
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Or in the CHL, or anywhere he has played at the same level as Laine and Puljujarvi... Raises some red flags for sure. Gets outplayed by them everytime they play on the same level.. Small sample size but still...

CHL? Are you serious? He played one game in the CHL, one of his first games for ZSC, and got a point for an assist. At that time the team was struggling as well in the league an only won one 1 out of 5 games.

I see lot of excuses for Matthews.. could've, should've, would've... You would think that the #1 overall wouldn't need that many excuses.. Especially after being outplayed by Laine and Puljujarvi in the wjc and chl... We will see i guess...

It's not really an excuse, just pointing out the problem I have with your comment. As mentioned before, I've been lucky enough to see him play many times and I know that he can make the difference in important games.
 

WhiskeyYerTheDevils

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I see lot of excuses for Matthews.. could've, should've, would've... You would think that the #1 overall wouldn't need that many excuses.. Especially after being outplayed by Laine and Puljujarvi in the wjc and chl... We will see i guess...

Pointing to sample size of ONE game is not an "excuse". You've got a well established history of disliking Matthews, wonder if that has anything to do with your posts.

Also, you never addressed their performances at the U18, or last year's U20?

I wonder how this year's U20 would have gone for Matthews if he had a player of equal caliber on his line? Tkachuk is good but he's not close to the Finns.
 

kelsier

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Aug 17, 2013
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There is no need to trash Matthews as he's a wonderful talent in his own right and has a very high ceiling. He's also the favourite for the number one spot even while you could make an argument in favor of the Finns, who outplayed him in the WJC and won the gold for the country. The sample size is relatively small. However if you look back a year towards the WJC 2015, when Matthews was also 17 (while being only 4 months younger if compared to Laine or Puljujärvi now), there would be a strong case in favor for the Finns. Matthews WJC 2015 performance would be better comparable than 2016 in order to balance the age difference. In that regard, he couldn't even begin to make a case for himself.

Still, being a center and having the skills that he has makes him the front runner but the difference is minimal at this point while most refuse to face it. Laine is the most skilled and naturally gifted player in the draft but you don't build a franchise around scorers if you are a bottom feeder team and get that first pick. Nevertheless I think it can be an exciting race towards the second half of the season. Scouts will be torn in the end when all aspects and factors are scaled and on the table.
 

BusQuets

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Jul 16, 2010
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Pointing to sample size of ONE game is not an "excuse". You've got a well established history of disliking Matthews, wonder if that has anything to do with your posts.

Also, you never addressed their performances at the U18, or last year's U20?

I wonder how this year's U20 would have gone for Matthews if he had a player of equal caliber on his line? Tkachuk is good but he's not close to the Finns.

Why are you making things up? Find a single post from me where i bash Matthews. I actually really like him as a player but i'm also very good at being critical and neutral. We are talking about Matthews here, no need to try to attack posters, you are better than that.
 

Daximus

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Sucks he couldn't show that in WJC.

Yes because the WJC should be used as the absolute measure of success for all draft eligible players. He's been **** pumping competition his whole life up to that point and if Team USA had half a brain and actually took the rest of the skill players along with them they may have had a much better run than they did.
We both know Matthews is a better player. The dude has been destroying every league he's entered as a rookie.

Matthews has done things in his short career the fins could never even hope of touching. So they outscored him at a tournament or two whooopie do basil. Matthews will have the better career in the NHL. We will see what the Finns can do without all that time and space. We know Matthews is capable of doing work in that environment.
 

AD1066

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Sep 30, 2011
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Not too worried about the WJC.

The two Finns playing with each other and being centered by a player already drafted, on large ice in front of home fans vs. Matthews centering his own line with Tkachuk (who is a good player, but not on the level of the rest) and a variable other winger.

It would be one thing if he struggled, but he played very well overall.
 

Beukeboom

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Apr 1, 2007
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Not too worried about the WJC.

The two Finns playing with each other and being centered by a player already drafted, on large ice in front of home fans vs. Matthews centering his own line with Tkachuk (who is a good player, but not on the level of the rest) and a variable other winger.

It would be one thing if he struggled, but he played very well overall.

It is rather strange how much negative critique people give him, he did after all finish tied #1 in goals with a certain Laine. So if an underperforming Matthews is number one in goals, what is the upper limit?

As of now it might be Columbus. Could be interesting in that case. Warenski on D and Milano is drafted by them too if I am not mistaken?
 

Beukeboom

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Apr 1, 2007
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Or in the CHL, or anywhere he has played at the same level as Laine and Puljujarvi... Raises some red flags for sure. Gets outplayed by them everytime they play on the same level.. Small sample size but still...

Do you care to elaborate? Everytime they have met? Last years WJC20 Matthews outperformed Puljujarvi and Laine wasn't in it. This years he had 7 goals, tied with Laine who did such an amazing tournament. In CHL Matthews has one game where he had one point.

Last years WJC18 Matthews out performed the others in points at least, twice as many points as Puljujarvi for instance. Did not see any games myself.

Thusly you good sir are wrong in your statement.
 

hamzarocks

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Jul 22, 2012
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The fact that pulijarvi is being compared to Matthews shows how prospects can get overrated during the wjc. The only prospect who I think has a shot of being better than Matthews from this draft is Laine. He has been amazing in a few games and clips I saw from the Finnish league. I really love his game and if he can improve his skating from good to great I think he can be ovi lite. Elite player imo and the only one who I think can go num 1 at draft day over Matthews. Still Matthews will most likely go 1st as he is a elite prospect who had a strong junior showcase and is a beast physically. Think both of them end up top 10 players in the nhl during their primes. Pulijarvi is a great prospect but I would take marner, strome, from 15 draft over him personally.
 

Snowsii

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Jan 6, 2014
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Last years WJC18 Matthews out performed the others in points at least, twice as many points as Puljujarvi for instance. Did not see any games myself.

Thusly you good sir are wrong in your statement.

IMO WJC18 is kinda biased place to compare, if were talking about American prospect. Not downplaying anyone of course, but Usa U-18 have the pleasure of playing together way more than any other team.
(60 games before 14-15 WJC games) It's easy to find lines that work together etc.. Ofc scoring needs talent, and Matthews is elite prospect.
 

Spade

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Mar 12, 2014
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I see lot of excuses for Matthews.. could've, should've, would've... You would think that the #1 overall wouldn't need that many excuses.. Especially after being outplayed by Laine and Puljujarvi in the wjc and chl... We will see i guess...

I see lots of excuses for Puljujarvi/Laine, could've, should've, would've....you'd think that the #1 overall wouldn't need that many excuses. Especially after being outplayed by Matthews in the juniors, U18s and league play....we will see I guess.

Matthews' overall body of work is better than anyone in this draft, from the past 2 and a half seasons. The WJCs did their part to prove that Puljujarvi and Laine deserve to be in the equation, but to pretend that Matthews all of a sudden isn't on the same level is quite ironic given that we've heard every reason for the 2 Finns not producing in their own leagues. Coaching, style of play, the continuous call-up/demotion congo, lack of skilled linemates, icetime....

They made it a closer race than it was, and I love the two Finns, but let's not pretend that Matthews' supporters are the only ones who've ever made excuses for their favorite player's less-than-expected performances.
 

DonskoiDonscored

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Oct 12, 2013
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I see lot of excuses for Matthews.. could've, should've, would've... You would think that the #1 overall wouldn't need that many excuses.. Especially after being outplayed by Laine and Puljujarvi in the wjc and chl... We will see i guess...

You would also think that an Auston Matthews thread wouldn't be turned into a Laine/Pulju hype and Matthews put-down thread...
 

FinPanda

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Mar 13, 2014
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Matthews is the BPA. He has had great season, great in the NLA and he had a good WJC. Laine is good, but Matthews is just better.

As much as I want to see the first Finnish 1st overall pick, it just don't happen. Two days..
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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Dec 8, 2013
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The fact that pulijarvi is being compared to Matthews shows how prospects can get overrated during the wjc. The only prospect who I think has a shot of being better than Matthews from this draft is Laine. He has been amazing in a few games and clips I saw from the Finnish league. I really love his game and if he can improve his skating from good to great I think he can be ovi lite. Elite player imo and the only one who I think can go num 1 at draft day over Matthews. Still Matthews will most likely go 1st as he is a elite prospect who had a strong junior showcase and is a beast physically. Think both of them end up top 10 players in the nhl during their primes. Pulijarvi is a great prospect but I would take marner, strome, from 15 draft over him personally.

This is pretty much my opinion.
 

lawrence

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May 19, 2012
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ummmmmm, what do the 2 finns have to do with Mathews?

and please correct me if i'm wrong... Mathews is one of the top players in a very very reputable European league....

the 2 finns.... well..... lets say they are nowhere near the top in scoring, their average is also nowhere near the top.... and finnish leauge, to be honest, Is not as well known. sorry nothing against that league. you also cannot honestly tell me, well its the finns are in a higher leauge, higher league to what extent though???

Mathews is number 1.
 

Battle Lin

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Dec 18, 2015
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i take auston over eichel...hes going 1...the real debate is who is 2, cus we know the left over finn is 3
 

dlawong

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Nov 24, 2011
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Auston is a very unique player. He had to overcome an injury a year ago and finish that season as one of the top player in the US develop program, breaking Kane's record and would have been picked # 3 in a very deep 2015 draft if he was born a few days ago. He also had a back injury which kept him out for 3 weeks and only returned to play Pro for a few games before the WJC this year. He clearly carry the US team on his back for the first few games up to the quarter-final and may have been burn out because of that (not being on top of his game shape because of the missed time due to the recent injury and carry his team almost entirely by himself (with some steady smart grinding work from one of his line-mates). Remember that Fin gold medal team had a lot of talented players who were playing on top of their games, not just the two top elite 2016 prospects.

Funny things can happen at the WJC as well. McDavid was not the best player for team Canada last WJC either, but he clearly is the most overall talented player on that team and likely in the young NHL. Some of those production/result does involve luck and who you play with. Coming to this tournament, Matthew had hardly played with any of his teammates in the international tournament and a lot of the play was trial and error to find their chemistry.

I believe he is a real competitive player but he does not crave for the spotlight for himself. He already said that his favorite player is Toews and he would like to play like him so you know that he will step up when the big time arrive but care less about his individual stat. Who would not have loved to have a Toews on their team?

Not saying I would not like the two big talented forwards from Finland especially Laine, but if I am a GM and have to make a choice, I will go with Auston because he come from a city where hardly anyone even heard about hockey and he wanted to be a hockey player and did everything he could from an young age to get to where he is today. He loves this game and he is that determined.
 
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LoveNHL

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Jun 15, 2015
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Matthews is the most complete player over all. I hope he goes first. Laine should be happy if he goes second. First pick always gets more expectations and pressure. A mock draft say 5 years ahead from now will be interesting.
 

kelsier

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Aug 17, 2013
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Auston is a very unique player. He had to overcome an injury a year ago and finish that season as one of the top player in the US develop program, breaking Kane's record and would have been picked # 3 in a very deep 2015 draft if he was born a few days ago. He also had a back injury which kept him out for 3 weeks and only returned to play Pro for a few games before the WJC this year. He clearly carry the US team on his back for the first few games up to the quarter-final and may have been burn out because of that (not being on top of his game shape because of the missed time due to the recent injury and carry his team almost entirely by himself (with some steady smart grinding work from one of his line-mates). Remember that Fin gold medal team had a lot of talented players who were playing on top of their games, not just the two top elite 2016 prospects.

Funny things can happen at the WJC as well. McDavid was not the best player for team Canada last WJC either, but he clearly is the most overall talented player on that team and likely in the young NHL. Some of those production/result does involve luck and who you play with. Coming to this tournament, Matthew had hardly played with any of his teammates in the international tournament and a lot of the play was trial and error to find their chemistry.

I believe he is a real competitive player but he does not crave for the spotlight for himself. He already said that his favorite player is Toews and he would like to play like him so you know that he will step up when the big time arrive but care less about his individual stat. Who would not have loved to have a Toews on their team?

Not saying I would not like the two big talented forwards from Finland especially Laine, but if I am a GM and have to make a choice, I will go with Auston because he come from a city where hardly anyone even heard about hockey and he wanted to be a hockey player and did everything he could from an young age to get to where he is today. He loves this game and he is that determined.

While I agree that the success in the WJC doesn't alone indicate where a player is at in terms of development, though it shouldn't be sidelined either. Perhpas the Finns had the chance to create more chemistry than Matthews and Tkachuk, but they don't play in the same league team either.

I don't know the details of the Matthew's injury, did he break a leg or something? Laine f.ex. missed the whole summer off season workout due to a serious knee injury which lead to disappointing 2014-15 season. The next year when he had the chance to pick it up, well, you can pretty much see the results right now. Had he been healthy, one could only wonder how good of a skater he would be today.

I find the last statement to support the claim that a player should be picked first a little bit odd. Loving the game and being born in a place that most haven't even heard of aren't exactly factors that dictate the order. Puljujärvi was born in Sweden (Älvkarleby) f.ex. and it's a never heard place for me atleast. Then moved on to Tornio which is a never heard place for people that don't know the country. I'm fairly sure all the top picks love the game and there's no doubt Laine, Tkachuk or Puljujärvi are just as driven and determined as Matthews.

Being a center is a valid and good point for someone to go ahead of another (especially #1) if they are close in terms of skill, potential ability and NHL readyness.
 
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