C Auston Matthews - ZSC Lions, NLA (2016 Draft) III

[LoveNHL]

Finn here. Matthew is the best C in WJC. As panter fan I would pick Matthews before anyone else. Second pick is also easy. That would be Laine. Third is harder.

 

[Random Forest]

He could've had 7 points today. Puljujarvi and Laine who get a lot of hype these days are not really close to him. Matthews is superior in almost every area.

I'm a fan of Matthews, but that's just not true at all.

 

[LoveNHL]

What makes Matthews so good is his IQ and ability to pass and reciev the puck. Been following him during WJC. He is simply a power factor for all other players.

 

[Brewsky]

Finn here. Matthew is the best C in WJC. As panter fan I would pick Matthews before anyone else. Second pick is also easy. That would be Laine. Third is harder.

I would take Pulju over Laine. For some reason I see Laine being a very streaky and inconsistent scorer in the NHL as opposed to Pulju who will make his teammates better and put forth more effort during his shifts.

So for me I have Pulju ahead of Laine, the WJC hype train doesn't change my opinion on it.

 

[LoveNHL]

I believe Laines physical play fits NHL much better. He can win battles in front of goal better than Puljujärvi. I have seen too many Finns shine on big ice to fail in a narrow one. Laine will do well. I am not sure Puljujärvi can do that.

 

[BB88]

Where were Laine and Puljujärvi against Sweden yesterday?

They were playing, defending, skating and playing with heart.

I thought Matthews had a high compete level but his lack of compete was a huge disappointment for me, yes he has the skill but where was the heart when it mattered?

 

[LoveNHL]

It was not Matthews fault. He played far too much and run into fatigue issues. He is only 18 and that will not be a problem as he gets older and stronger. Blame the coach for letting him 2+ minute shifts.

 

[psycho_dad*]

No the leagues are not comparable at all, you trying to make the case just highlights your ignorance on that particular topic. Which I understand, you're a fan of his so fact checking might not always serve your agenda.

Champions hockey league has only been played twice and it pretty much comes down to Fin vs Swe every time. This year 7/8 quarterfinal teams are Finnish or Swedish (4 Liiga teams, 3 elitserien teams). HC Davos is still in there in semifinal stage, but that is only one of the 6 NLA teams that entered the tournament. Matthews team was eliminated by a Czech team, in the round of best 32 teams.

It was pretty much the same thing last season too. I've actually watched some of the games, and the difference is quite apparent between the leagues.

You can hype his individual skills and everything as much as you want, but the level difference of the leagues is a real, fact based observation, not an opinion. That of course doesn't say anything about Auston as a hockey player, just offers proper data for comparison purposes.

All we can do is speculate and I do realize that the position (center) is a more desireable than winger, but if the winger is the better player, that's when the position doesn't matter as much. Now that Matthews's tournament is over, we shall see what Pulju and Laine do in the final. If they have a good performance again, I wouldn't be surprised them getting picked ahead. I wouldn't even be surprised at this point.

I don't think Finns are generally "proud of Liiga", they understand it's place in the hockey world (waaaay behind NHL, KHL and even a bit behind of Elitserien). Central european (or other scandinavia/nordic) leagues are not on the same level. They do have some great players who can be impact players in both Liiga and Elitserien, but the overall level is lower.

 

[Beukeboom]

No the leagues are not comparable at all, you trying to make the case just highlights your ignorance on that particular topic. Which I understand, you're a fan of his so fact checking might not always serve your agenda.

Champions hockey league has only been played twice and it pretty much comes down to Fin vs Swe every time. This year 7/8 quarterfinal teams are Finnish or Swedish (4 Liiga teams, 3 elitserien teams). HC Davos is still in there in semifinal stage, but that is only one of the 6 NLA teams that entered the tournament. Matthews team was eliminated by a Czech team, in the round of best 32 teams.

It was pretty much the same thing last season too. I've actually watched some of the games, and the difference is quite apparent between the leagues.

You can hype his individual skills and everything as much as you want, but the level difference of the leagues is a real, fact based observation, not an opinion. That of course doesn't say anything about Auston as a hockey player, just offers proper data for comparison purposes.

All we can do is speculate and I do realize that the position (center) is a more desireable than winger, but if the winger is the better player, that's when the position doesn't matter as much. Now that Matthews's tournament is over, we shall see what Pulju and Laine do in the final. If they have a good performance again, I wouldn't be surprised them getting picked ahead. I wouldn't even be surprised at this point.

I don't think Finns are generally "proud of Liiga", they understand it's place in the hockey world (waaaay behind NHL, KHL and even a bit behind of Elitserien). Central european (or other scandinavia/nordic) leagues are not on the same level. They do have some great players who can be impact players in both Liiga and Elitserien, but the overall level is lower.

Then yet Matthews has more than PPG while Puljujarvi and Laine have points in 1/3 of the game and 0.5 respectively. Does that mean that the finnish league is 3-4 times better than the Swiss league or is it simply that Matthews has performed better?

You seem to forget that Matthews has grown up playing on small ice and now competes in a league on big ice in a country where he does not know the language. That is not as easy at it sounds for an 18 year old. Laine and Puljuarvi play in a league and country where they are familiar and also their second season. So Matthews has outperformed them in the Euro league system. Matthews had a good WJC last year too while Puljujarvi struggled on small ice and Laine wasn't in it. Matthews is proven good on small ice while the finns are not. That is a big factor.

Also fair enough Laine and Puljujarvi have been great in world jr but that would be a bigger fact if Matthews was bad. He has set an american record and outperformed guys like Eichel by far. That kind of makes the finns situation less effective in terms of ranking.

Add to it that Matthews set a USDP points record beating a certain Patrick Kane and for instance outperforming Eichel by far once again and the lock on #1 is pretty safe anywhere but the finnish HFboard posse. That can also be set in perspective to all the finns that have been hyped on this boards and haven't performed well in NHL and especially not from year one.

 

[Snowsii]

Then yet Matthews has more than PPG while Puljujarvi and Laine have points in 1/3 of the game and 0.5 respectively. Does that mean that the finnish league is 3-4 times better than the Swiss league or is it simply that Matthews has performed better?

No. Best teams in Swiss league could challence best Finnish teams, but bottom teams would be eaten alive by bottom teams in Finnish league.

Not saying Matthews havent performed better, than Laine and Pulujärvi.
But you have to think also, how even the league is.. How does the team play etc..

and now that, i did look NLA stats, there's much more goals scored than in Liiga.. Average 104 in NLA vs 86,2 in Liiga.. 32 - 37 GP

 

[Beukeboom]

No. Best teams in Swiss league could challence best Finnish teams, but bottom teams would be eaten alive by bottom teams in Finnish league.

Not saying Matthews havent performed better, than Laine and Pulujärvi.
But you have to think also, how even the league is.. How does the team play etc..

and now that, i did look NLA stats, there's much more goals scored than in Liiga.. Average 104 in NLA vs 86,2 in Liiga.. 32 - 37 GP

Yes indeed there might be a difference but it is exaggerated here. Also people fail to take other things into account such as Matthews being used to small ice and playing in a foreign country far away from home. Laine and Puljujarvi play in their own country on ice they have grown up with and also their second season. My point is that there are other factors that need to be taken into consideration and Matthews has in my opinion without doubt performed better in the league comparison.

WJH to me is fun but there have been so many flukes there that don't facilitate in the grown up leagues. Crosby had 9 points in 6 games his last year, that is hardly impressive but was followed by a 100+ rookie year in NHL.

 

[VictorLustig]

I'm a fan of Matthews, but that's just not true at all.

Except his skating, what does Puljujarvi do better than Matthews? Except his shot, what does Laine do better than Matthews?

 

[Beukeboom]

Except his skating, what does Puljujarvi do better than Matthews? Except his shot, what does Laine do better than Matthews?

People get blinded by fancy moves as always. The thing is that those moves do not work as well in NHL. In fact they obviously don't work as well in the Finnish national league either. That is why WJHC is not as important as some want it to be. It is kids against kids and fancy stuff just is easier to do.

But Laine is fun to watch no doubt. Just think that Matthews is better at chosing his battles from what I have seen this tournament. He is very smart when it comes to whether he should shoot, deke or pass. He often does the wisest decision rather then the fanciest. But yeah, that is based on what I have seen this tournament.

 

[The Sweetness]

Matthews is an incredible player. I think he's the type of player who will shine with other skilled quick thinking players. He certainly has some flaws as he took some really long shifts and looked fatigued and I'd like to see him play more direct at times but he does really look like Malkin out there at times.

The way he consistently controlled the play in this tourney for his age was remarkable.

He was a bit unlucky not to have more points as he had a ton of nice feeds that could have been first or second assists but in the end scouts are looking at his tools and skills and not just the scoresheet.

It'll be interesting to see how much stronger Matthews can get as he's already a beast out there and wins nearly every 50-50 battle either due to his strength, smarts or long stick.

 

[BobDobolina]

Except his skating, what does Puljujarvi do better than Matthews? Except his shot, what does Laine do better than Matthews?

I don't watch these players enough to say who's best (I think very very few people here do) but I think Laine looks amazing.

Not that convinced about Pulju, he seems to have a lot of trouble handling the puck and his hockey sense doesn't seem to be exactly elite.

 

[SingleAallStar]

What is going on in these boards. I see some suggesting Matthews will be picked first for two reasons

That he plays centre and that he is a less risky pick.

How about the fact that he is the best prospect in the draft?

Amazing in U18 last year and for USNDP. Record points for USNDP and led tourney in points unless I am mistaken.

Then is over a point per game in the swiss league which is excellent. So he is consensus first overall for this draft for about two years, and then over a small sample size he becomes a safe but not spectacular first overall? And the craziest part? He was literally named best centre in the entire tourney as a draft eligible forward.

Maybe he really is just the best player in the draft and will likely have the best career?

 

[BB88]

What is going on in these boards. I see some suggesting Matthews will be picked first for two reasons

That he plays centre and that he is a less risky pick.

How about the fact that he is the best prospect in the draft?

Amazing in U18 last year and for USNDP. Record points for USNDP and led tourney in points unless I am mistaken.

Then is over a point per game in the swiss league which is excellent. So he is consensus first overall for this draft for about two years, and then over a small sample size he becomes a safe but not spectacular first overall? And the craziest part? He was literally named best centre in the entire tourney as a draft eligible forward.

Maybe he really is just the best player in the draft and will likely have the best career?

Pulju& Laine play in different leagues than Matthews so you can't just blindly watch the stats and they are 8months younger than Matthews.

I really can't say he is easily the best right now.

 

[Beukeboom]

Pulju& Laine play in different leagues than Matthews so you can't just blindly watch the stats and they are 8months younger than Matthews.

I really can't say he is easily the best right now.

But their seasons are lightyears away from the seasons Barkov and Granlund had (ppg) and we see how they both have done in NHL. Barkov is doing fine but I expect Matthews to be a much better player.

People who argue for the finns will realise their mistake in 2-3 years time. Laine is the one that will do best out of the two I think.

 

[BB88]

But their seasons are lightyears away from the seasons Barkov and Granlund had (ppg) and we see how they both have done in NHL. Barkov is doing fine but I expect Matthews to be a much better player.

People who argue for the finns will realise their mistake in 2-3 years time. Laine is the one that will do best out of the two I think.

That's not watching them play, had 2 weeks of time to watch them in this tournament and clearly missed it.

 

[Sean McG]

I will search the other threads, but how would I go about watching Zurich games? World Juniors are great and all, but I would love to watch a few games of him playing against men. Have to go back and watch some of the USA games in depth because I still don't really have a feel for him.

 

[Beukeboom]

That's not watching them play, had 2 weeks of time to watch them in this tournament and clearly missed it.

I saw. But it is kids against kids. It is simply a different kind of hockey and doesn't really reflect the performance against men. The finns looked great but the way Matthews controls the games with smartness is a more valuable skill vs men imo. The all guns blazing guys get de-weaponized in NHL vs experienced defensmen, in WJC they don't..

 

[SwissGrog]

Can you really argue against my points? Finnish tier 2 league is not beer league. It's 2nd best league in Finland. Swiss average depth player isn't Liiga level of player. That's a fact. If you're willing to debate do it. Post facts how NLA league is equal or close of being equal? Because players get paid more? There is more star players? The depth isn't close to SHL or Liiga. There is biggest difference. Your typical swiss player isn't Liiga calibre of player.

it's very difficult to compare the two leagues. But last year Tommi Paakkolaanvara, center of the Pelikans, came to the playoff to play for Lugano. He can be considered a good example of "depth" player of the finnish liiga.
He was atrocious in Switzerland, could barely play at the level of junior guys. He played first line minutes with Klasen and Pettersson and in 6 game had 0 points.

As always, it is just a small example and statistically irrelevant. But in the past as reinforcement swiss playoff teams were often taking player from the Liiga that weren't qualified for the playoff. this is happening less and less because they just aren't worth an import license.

I still think Liiga has the edge, but not in the same way as it was 10 years ago. Just my two cents.

 

[holyprime]

No the leagues are not comparable at all, you trying to make the case just highlights your ignorance on that particular topic.

I made it clear why i think SM-Liiga isnt several levels above the NLA, you don't have to agree with it, but it doesnt help your cause to simply reiterate what was already said before while you call others ignorant.

I will search the other threads, but how would I go about watching Zurich games?

That's unfortunately impossible if you don't know anyone living in Switzerland. Most games are Pay-TV only and you need a billing adress (or at least phone nr) from here for that imho.

There will be games on public TV (the ZSC is one of their darlings so there should be several for them) for the playoffs tough, you might be able to watch them while using a swiss proxy or VPN.

 

[scipio]

I will search the other threads, but how would I go about watching Zurich games? World Juniors are great and all, but I would love to watch a few games of him playing against men. Have to go back and watch some of the USA games in depth because I still don't really have a feel for him.

There will be a cup game tonight, starting at 19:45 (Central European Time). There should be a stream on srf.ch but you will need a vpn connection or proxy to watch.

 

[BB88]

I saw. But it is kids against kids. It is simply a different kind of hockey and doesn't really reflect the performance against men. The finns looked great but the way Matthews controls the games with smartness is a more valuable skill vs men imo. The all guns blazing guys get de-weaponized in NHL vs experienced defensmen, in WJC they don't..

Both of them are build for NHL.