NHL Board of Governors to approve opening of expansion process; Atlanta and Houston believed to be leading candidates

[The Gr8 Dane]

This sucks

 

[Mike Jones]

Is this a popular opinion in Calgary?

Judging from letters to the editor, online comments, and things people have said to me I'm not the only one who holds them (Both the need to cancel the arena deal and the need for the Flames to move). I haven't see poll numbers but there's a reason our city council and staff refused to send this to a plebiscite. We can't afford the disastrous deals and projects our current and former Mayors and councils have gotten us into. We have infrastructure that's literally cratering while our so-called leaders are signing sweetheart deals with groups like the Flames ownership.

 

[tarheelhockey]

You do realize that there's promotion and relegation in almost every European hockey league too? It's not only a thing in football. I wouldn't even watch my team if they somehow decided to close the SHL.

It may have merit in theory, but the chances of relegation ever being a thing in NA major leagues is permanently set at zero. Nobody would ever accept slashing two zeroes off their revenue and valuation by dropping into a minor league. The time to discuss that system was 100 years ago, it’s a done deal.

 

[rojac]

QC is the cute girl the NHL hangs around for no other reason than to make the hottie they actually wanna bang jealous.

Really, I thought that QC was the girl that keeps throwing herself at the star quarterback even though the quarterback wants nothing to do with her.

 

[S E P H]

There are barely enough NHL calibre players to fill out 20-24 teams. Ice hockey just doesn't have the talent pool of a soccer or basketball.

It's better than basketball.

 

[Axe Man]

The league has too many teams already and it's only going to get worse. It's time to stop playing regular season games between the 2 conferences and only play games with teams in the same conference. I know it will never happen but that would be the best way to play more meaningful games and reignite rivalries.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Atlanta again? Third time's the charm.

The first time was 50 years ago, but ok

 

[dj4aces]

Metro size is important, sure but look at Atlanta in the past - HUGE metro and they've lost two teams due to lack of interest.

The facts say differently, but we live in a world where people can make stuff up and call facts "fake news", so to each their own I guess.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Judging from letters to the editor, online comments, and things people have said to me I'm not the only one who holds them (Both the need to cancel the arena deal and the need for the Flames to move). I haven't see poll numbers but there's a reason our city council and staff refused to send this to a plebiscite. We can't afford the disastrous deals and projects our current and former Mayors and councils have gotten us into. We have infrastructure that's literally cratering while our so-called leaders are signing sweetheart deals with groups like the Flames ownership.

Damn that sucks, hopefully things get better down the road. Appreciate hearing a different perspective on this type of thing. In the meantime do you still root for the Flames or are you more of just a general NHL fan?

 

[SEALBound]

The facts say differently, but we live in a world where people can make stuff up and call facts "fake news", so to each their own I guess.

Except they don't. Owners don't sell money-making teams. Pretty easy to google why the Flames left. To quote wiki:

As the team stagnated on the ice, the Flames struggled at the gate. They peaked at an average of 14,161 fans per game in their second season, 1973–74, but fell to 12,258 three years later and then 10,500 in 1977–78.[26] Concerns that low attendance could result in the relocation of the team surfaced by 1976, prompting politicians and the players themselves to purchase tickets in a bid to stabilize the franchise.[40] The Flames attempted to boost attendance in 1980 by signing Jim Craig, goaltender of the American Olympic team that had won the Olympic gold medal following its "Miracle on Ice" victory over the Soviet Union.[41] It was not successful as attendance fell to an average of 10,024.[26] Adding to the Flames' financial woes was the fact that the Omni Coliseum was one of the last major arenas in North America to be built without revenue-generating luxury suites, which led Fletcher to describe the facility as being "out-of-date when it opened".[3]

Now, yeah the Thrashers were a smidge different after being sold but let's not pretend they were playing high-quality hockey in front of sell out crowds. They tried to get local Atlanta investors to buy them and there was ultimately not enough interest to keep them there. To quote wiki again:

Due to financial losses and ownership struggles, the team was frequently a target of relocation rumors. In later years, reports saw the team courted by suitors intending to relocate to Kansas City, Quebec City, Hamilton, or Winnipeg.[10][11] On January 22, 2011, the team's ownership group claimed it had lost US$130 million in the last six years, partially as a result of an ongoing lawsuit with former partner Steve Belkin.[12] In February 2011, majority owner Michael Gearon stated that the team would be seeking new investors.[13] Various local groups announced their intent to purchase the franchise and keep it in Atlanta,[14][15] but ultimately the team was sold to the Canadian group True North Sports & Entertainment.

So twice, there was a team in Atlanta, there was low attendance, and significant financial losses. So they moved.

If you're a former Thrashers fan, I get it. YOU were into it but that hardly means the city was. Call it Fake News if the facts hurt your feelings but as they say "the truth hurts sometimes".

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Except they don't. Owners don't sell money-making teams. Pretty easy to google why the Flames left. To quote wiki:


Now, yeah the Thrashers were a smidge different after being sold but let's not pretend they were playing high-quality hockey in front of sell out crowds. They tried to get local Atlanta investors to buy them and there was ultimately not enough interest to keep them there. To quote wiki again:


So twice, there was a team in Atlanta, there was low attendance, and significant financial losses. So they moved.

If you're a former Thrashers fan, I get it. YOU were into it but that hardly means the city was. Call it Fake News if the facts hurt your feelings but as they say "the truth hurts sometimes".

Owners to blame for Thrashers' failure

Better source than Wikipedia

 

[Macblender]

The league needs to do a better job marketing itself in the US. I see no problem in having 28-29 US teams with the Canadian market being saturated.

If you can grow the game in the states so we can hopefully have more and more players coming up it would be awesome long term. The product sure is diluted short term but as long as there is an actual plan to greatly expand the audience then yeah it isn’t great. I think Houston is a great option though.

I honestly have no clue how they are so crap at marketing the sport. Literally skill play, big hit, and fighting ads every NFL commercial break or prime time show break in the US would help or anything at all. When I was in the states two weeks ago it seemed like every commercial break had 2 nfl related ads.

Lastly I guess for growing the game initially diluting the talent and having the skill players feast isn’t a bad thing

 

[SEALBound]

Owners to blame for Thrashers' failure

Better source than Wikipedia

That's fine, you can try to spin it however you want. Two failed teams. Atlanta should NOT be given third chance.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

That's fine, you can try to spin it however you want. Two failed teams. Atlanta should NOT be given third chance.

You can spin and go to Wikipedia and include teams from 50 years ago all you want. Atlanta SHOULD AND WILL get an expansion team

 

[dj4aces]

That's fine, you can try to spin it however you want. Two failed teams. Atlanta should NOT be given third chance.

That's certainly an interesting way of admitting you're wrong.

 

[SEALBound]

That's certainly an interesting way of admitting you're wrong.

Again, owners don't sell and move money-making teams. Two teams in Atlanta have failed, and it's literal insanity to give them a third.

Pretend all you want that it was something different. All came down to the dollars and at the end of the day, there wasn't enough to keep them there.

 

[dj4aces]

Again, owners don't sell and move money-making teams. Two teams in Atlanta have failed, and it's literal insanity to give them a third.

Pretend all you want that it was something different. All came down to the dollars and at the end of the day, there wasn't enough to keep them there.

And, as has been discussed in every thread a bout Atlanta on this board, ownership bought the asset in bad faith and immediately tried to relocate it. When that failed, they ran it into the ground until they were finally able to sell. Like I've said in many places, there are court cases one can easily access that detail every sordid and depressing detail.

You *choose* to believe what you want. The facts speak differently. If you ever want to know the fascts, you can search the business board thread and see everything laid out, all nice and made clear for everyone who actually wants to learn the story.

 

[Tawnos]

Again, owners don't sell and move money-making teams. Two teams in Atlanta have failed, and it's literal insanity to give them a third.

Pretend all you want that it was something different. All came down to the dollars and at the end of the day, there wasn't enough to keep them there.

You’re acting as if the people in Atlanta Spirit Group were being rational about the whole thing. They were not.

Don’t get me wrong, there is merit to the fact that the Thrashers were not on good financial footing because of a lack of local support. The problem is attributing that lack of support to the market itself, rather than blaming the management intentionally running the team into the ground.

Running an expansion team, and especially a southern one, is not a simple matter of putting the team out there and hoping for the best. An enormous amount of work has to go into making it go. The team needs to be good at some point. The marketing strategies need to be effective. Ownership has to invest its money and willpower into the product. They have to root themselves into at least a part of the community. ASG were not doing any of the things necessary to make the Thrashers a success and as a result, the team never built solid local support.

There’s nothing about Atlanta that makes it any different for hockey than Dallas, Nashville, or Tampa.

 

[57special]

How many chances will Atlanta get to prove that they don't like hockey?

 

[Bjorn Le]

There are barely enough NHL calibre players to fill out 20-24 teams. Ice hockey just doesn't have the talent pool of a soccer or basketball.

This isn’t true at all. There has never been more skilled NHL players than there is today. The NHL will have no problem filling 36 teams with talent.

 

[kingsholygrail]

If it fails in Atlanta for a third time, they should be banned forever.

 

[Viqsi]

Except they don't. Owners don't sell money-making teams. Pretty easy to google why the Flames left. To quote wiki:


Now, yeah the Thrashers were a smidge different after being sold but let's not pretend they were playing high-quality hockey in front of sell out crowds. They tried to get local Atlanta investors to buy them and there was ultimately not enough interest to keep them there.

The bolded is provably false. Atlanta Spirit Group was obliged to buy the arena, the basketball team, and the Thrashers in a single package, and they only wanted the first two because they were convinced the Thrashers were getting in the way of the basketball team. So yes, they did their "due dilligence" in offering the team to Atlanta investors as the NHL required... and quoted them deliberately impossibly ruinous fees for use of the arena so as to make it fiscally impossible for them to stay. And there was nothing the NHL or anyone else could do about it.

Atlanta Spirit Group killed the Thrashers because they decided well in advance they only wanted basketball. It wasn't "fan interest". It wasn't "market strength". They didn't even try.

 

[Viqsi]

Again, owners don't sell and move money-making teams.

Atlanta Spirit Group did. They did so because they were convinced that removing the Thrashers would make the Hawks more profitable, because they unilaterally decided they didn't want hockey. Not the fans. Not the numbers. Not any sort of rational analysis based on objective data. A bunch of clueless moneyed dudebro douchebags in a smoky room.

 

[Dhockey16]

More teams, too long of a season, gambling ads galore, ads on jerseys, fanatics. This league man

The hockey is literally the only thing that keeps me around. Couldn't be less interested in growing the game or making big tv deals, just like watching the hockey and following the players that are good at hockey.

 

[Oddbob]

How about no more new teams? We don't need more and we don't need further watering down of teams.