Proposal: Building for 2021-2022

[CBJWerenski8]

Full quote makes it seem like more speculative rather than reporting

 

[majormajor]

deal. Bite down hard and pull the trigger

I don't know how realistic this is. Buffalo would probably prefer to ship Reinhart for value and just get a different goalie. That's usually how the goalie market goes - there seems to be a million of them.

If we're aiming to be competitive I'm not so sure I want to do this trade though. I really believe in Elvis as a strong starter, and I tend to think of Reinhart as a good 2C, not really a huge upgrade. We'd have to get a better center. I might be persuaded though.

 

[MAHJ71]

I don't know how realistic this is. Buffalo would probably prefer to ship Reinhart for value and just get a different goalie. That's usually how the goalie market goes - there seems to be a million of them.

If we're aiming to be competitive I'm not so sure I want to do this trade though. I really believe in Elvis as a strong starter, and I tend to think of Reinhart as a good 2C, not really a huge upgrade. We'd have to get a better center. I might be persuaded though.

I become more comfortable with it after forcing myself to believe Roslovic takes a big leap next year under new coach/new system that is actually tailored to the players we have.

Then add in Renihart and apply same thought as above.. Voila!

(hope you can sense the manufactured optimism in this post, thats all it is)

 

[Cyclones Rock]

A player who could probably be had on the cheap and be a decent 3rd line center is Dylan Strome. He's 24 and would be in his 3rd NHL organization after going 3OA in his draft year. He's at put up or shut up time in his career and might be worth taking a flier on.

It would be a higher end Grigorenko play for the CBJ. If it works out then great. If not, move on.

Dylan Strome Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

 

[DarkandStormy]

A player who could probably be had on the cheap and be a decent 3rd line center is Dylan Strome. He's 24 and would be in his 3rd NHL organization after going 3OA in his draft year. He's at put up or shut up time in his career and might be worth taking a flier on.

It would be a higher end Grigorenko play for the CBJ. If it works out then great. If not, move on.

Dylan Strome Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

He's still under contract with Chicago and doesn't the team have enough 3Cs who we think have the potential to be 2Cs? Domi, Roslovic, Texier.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I don't know how realistic this is. Buffalo would probably prefer to ship Reinhart for value and just get a different goalie. That's usually how the goalie market goes - there seems to be a million of them.

If we're aiming to be competitive I'm not so sure I want to do this trade though. I really believe in Elvis as a strong starter, and I tend to think of Reinhart as a good 2C, not really a huge upgrade. We'd have to get a better center. I might be persuaded though.

At worst he’s a high end 2C or top 6 RW. That’s at worst. Yeah he’s due an extension and will get paid well; but that’s a no brainer for Columbus if it’s on the table especially straight up 1 for 1.

I don’t think it happens. At least not as it’s brought up.

 

[VT]

Reinhart is RFA, so would he want to sign here?

 

[koteka]

I don’t think either Elvis or Korpi have much value. Goalies in general don’t have much value. Neither one has put together a good season. They have had great parts of seasons, but neither one has ever started 70% of a team’s games. Elvis has had injuries in both of his NHL seasons and that had to hurt his value. Both are going to be UFAs in a year, so it is not like you are getting a solid goalie signed for another few years on a cheap contract. And there are good goalies in free agency. Mrazek. Grubauer. Freddie Anderson. I’d rather make a run at Grubauer or Mrazek than trade a first for Elvis.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

I’d add one of our later 1sts to land Reinhart. It’s really hard to gauge Elvis’s value though.

I also can’t get over Elvis’s emotional postgame presser where he made a statement along the lies of “we’re not Buffalo [-level-bad]”, and thought he might be the exact person that would help turning around their team culture.

 

[majormajor]

At worst he’s a high end 2C or top 6 RW. That’s at worst. Yeah he’s due an extension and will get paid well; but that’s a no brainer for Columbus if it’s on the table especially straight up 1 for 1.

I don’t think it happens. At least not as it’s brought up.

I’d add one of our later 1sts to land Reinhart. It’s really hard to gauge Elvis’s value though.

I also can’t get over Elvis’s emotional postgame presser where he made a statement along the lies of “we’re not Buffalo [-level-bad]”, and thought he might be the exact person that would help turning around their team culture.

I agree that it only happens if we add a late 1st or something to Elvis.

But I'm not calling any Elvis trade a no-brainer. It's hard to imagine us being anything other than dogmeat in the Metro if we don't get elite goaltending. He's a wildcard, whereas Reinhart is maybe enough to bump us from 7th to 6th.

 

[BB88]

Thoughts on this?

Would need a big + but was just coming to say I go back to Reinhart, younger than both Kuz& Monahan and doesn’t have a bad reputation.

Then sign Danault.

 

[majormajor]

I'd sooner trade Laine than Elvis + late 1st.

Extend Elvis in Columbus, and Buffalo is fine with futures so work a three-way to send Laine to L.A. or Vancouver for their #8/#9OA and use that to pick up Reinhart. "Then sign Danault."

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[majormajor]

It's certainly good news for CBJ but I don't think this news is anything earth changing.

The hard part was teams adjusting to the flat cap when it was brought in last summer, from here on I think most teams are fine. The more cap space is valuable the better it is for CBJ, but I don't think we'll see utter desperation and firesales to squeeze under the cap.

 

[VT]

I'd sooner trade Laine than Elvis + late 1st.

Extend Elvis in Columbus, and Buffalo is fine with futures so work a three-way to send Laine to L.A. or Vancouver for their #8/#9OA and use that to pick up Reinhart. "Then sign Danault."

"Great" idea. Trade a young guy, who wants to play here and can be the NHL star, only for one bad COVID season when, as Seth Jones said, was without family but in Torts system for RFA Reinhart when we don't know if he wants to play here.
Btw, Laine`s value is slow now.

 

[DJA]

It's certainly good news for CBJ but I don't think this news is anything earth changing.

The hard part was teams adjusting to the flat cap when it was brought in last summer, from here on I think most teams are fine. The more cap space is valuable the better it is for CBJ, but I don't think we'll see utter desperation and firesales to squeeze under the cap.

Yep, as long as LTIR and waivers exist, this won’t change anything. Firesales of good players are just as mythical as RFA offer sheets.

 

[VT]

Tampa can have problems

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-salaries/tampa-bay-lightning-salary-cap-info/

NTC - Palat, Gourde, Johnson, Maroon, McDonagh
NMC - Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman
M-NTC - Killorn

without NTC/NMC/M-NTC - Point /$6,750,000/, Cirelli /$4,800,000/, Sergachev /$4,800,000/, Cernak /$2,950,000/, Vasilevskiy /$9,500,000/

important UFA - Coleman, Goodrow

to his salary cup - Kucherov /$9,500,000/, Stamkos /$8,500,000/

so they must save $18,000,000

 

[VT]

+++

 

[DEF]

I'll take everybody but Vasilevskiy.

 

[majormajor]

Tampa can have problems

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-salaries/tampa-bay-lightning-salary-cap-info/

NTC - Palat, Gourde, Johnson, Maroon, McDonagh
NMC - Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman
M-NTC - Killorn

without NTC/NMC/M-NTC - Point /$6,750,000/, Cirelli /$4,800,000/, Sergachev /$4,800,000/, Cernak /$2,950,000/, Vasilevskiy /$9,500,000/

important UFA - Coleman, Goodrow

to his salary cup - Kucherov /$9,500,000/, Stamkos /$8,500,000/

so they must save $18,000,000

This math isn't quite right - it looks like you're doing it based on this year's roster but they've got Coleman and Savard and a whole slew of depth guys (who aren't even on their 23 man roster) on this year's cap hit who will be gone next year.

It's not that complicated for Tampa. They can get Seattle to take McDonagh in the expansion draft, and Johnson only has a partial NTC this summer so he's 100% gone, possibly also to Seattle. Those two subtractions alone puts them a few million under the cap with a full lineup. A few problem areas but nothing that can't wait until next trade deadline.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

"Great" idea. Trade a young guy, who wants to play here and can be the NHL star, only for one bad COVID season when, as Seth Jones said, was without family but in Torts system for RFA Reinhart when we don't know if he wants to play here.
Btw, Laine`s value is slow now.

death, Bus defending korpi, and MM trying to get rid of Laine. Life’s only certainties.

I’ll keep Laine over Elvis+late first. Goalies are important but are mostly products of the play in front of them. Korpi can easily be a starter even if Elvis is better.

 

[Viqsi]

Holloway is a blue chipper - should be NHL ready now and he might even end up as a top liner. He's in the tier of prospects just below the A+ guys like Seider, Drysdale, Byfield, and Zegras.

Our leverage isn't great because both Jones and Elvis are so close to UFA. If they don't get extended as part of the deal then we're just looking at rental prices. That and the goalie market is still the goalie market.

I have it basically as
Elvis for a late 1st + Koskinen.
Jones for Holloway + late 1st + Kassian.

I could be easily wrong about that valuation - but in either direction for all I know.

Given that Elvis is expansion-exempt and thus we can basically keep him for free, I am pretty much opposed to any trade involving him that even distantly approximates "fair value".

* * *​

Thoughts on this?

I'm going to go with "please G-d no". I still have not yet had it explained to my satisfaction why hoping Reinhart's found a new normal is somehow superior to or more desirable than doing the exact same thing with Roslovic.

 

[majormajor]

Given that Elvis is expansion-exempt and thus we can basically keep him for free, I am pretty much opposed to any trade involving him that even distantly approximates "fair value".

I'm pretty much in agreement that we shouldn't trade him, regardless of the expansion benefit. What you quoted was a rebuild scenario, if we're not blowing it up I'm not trading Elvis.

death, Bus defending korpi, and MM trying to get rid of Laine. Life’s only certainties.

I’ll keep Laine over Elvis+late first. Goalies are important but are mostly products of the play in front of them. Korpi can easily be a starter even if Elvis is better.

So I'm "trying to get rid of Laine" but you're not "trying to get rid of Elvis+1st", nevermind that Elvis is the better player?

If Elvis was mostly the product of the play in front of him he wouldn't have had a .916 this year, he'd have an .894 just like Korpi.

 

[Kevo22363]

Full quote makes it seem like more speculative rather than reporting

If there is any truth to this, color me terribly disappointed. Jarmo needs to take advantage of teams and acquire more impactful players. This would be a terrible start to the summer.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

So I'm "trying to get rid of Laine" but you're not "trying to get rid of Elvis+1st", nevermind that Elvis is the better player?

If Elvis was mostly the product of the play in front of him he wouldn't have had a .916 this year, he'd have an .894 just like Korpi.

No. I’m not trying to get rid of Elvis. If it was my way we’d just trade Korpi for a second or something. I’d rather keep him. And regardless, I don’t have post after post after post trying to get rid of Elvis.

It’s impossible to determine whether or not a skater is a “better player” over a goalie. It’s a useless debate. But you and I both know what typical trade values are for goalies.

Elvis got hot. His stats were pretty mediocre until he got hot. And yeah, he’s good. And I like him and I’d rather keep him. But I don’t think the gap between he and Korpi is that massive and if the return you can get for them IS that significant you have to at least explore it.