Yes , because being hard to play against because you have 0 players with elite skill has worked out really well for us 20 yrs in , and having advanced to the 2nd round 1 time in franchise history . Meanwhile the talented players we do draft , or trade for get tired of playing for a team who’s ceiling is squeaking in as an 8 seed , so then those players start wanting out . I would imagine when Duchene wanted out of Colorado , there were post just like yours , suggesting the team not rebuild , and rather try to aquire a few players/ band-aids to maybe win some games ... Fortunately their GM/ ownership knew better .A huge problem here, is the amount of people who believe the solution to not winning enough games is to actually lose more games.
The biggest problem with the tanking mindset (besides the obvious) is that all those teams that people love to use as examples were built during a different era. The league has since changed the rules to make it so that teams can't be built that way.A huge problem here, is the amount of people who believe the solution to not winning enough games is to actually lose more games.
My favorite quote ever from you! Worthy of being plagiarized by me.A huge problem here, is the amount of people who believe the solution to not winning enough games is to actually lose more games.
Just going to disagree. If they end up with a bottom 3 pick next year because that's the way it plays out, fine, however, I think too many on here think that losing will solve this. That's absolutely not the case. Columbus only pulled out of being a perennial loser when they moved Nash for pieces that could help short and long term and change the culture. At this juncture, they need a plan, not just tank. If you hope that getting a top 3 pick the next two years saves this franchise I'll point you to Edmonton, Toronto, Buffalo and NJ. Elite talent drafted and I would argue no plan to build with them.Yup, tank and make sure you get a top 3 pick . That should be the #1 goal.. anything else we are simply wasting time
YES. This. Absolutely all of this. You get ALL the cookies.Just going to disagree. If they end up with a bottom 3 pick next year because that's the way it plays out, fine, however, I think too many on here think that losing will solve this. That's absolutely not the case. Columbus only pulled out of being a perennial loser when they moved Nash for pieces that could help short and long term and change the culture. At this juncture, they need a plan, not just tank. If you hope that getting a top 3 pick the next two years saves this franchise I'll point you to Edmonton, Toronto, Buffalo and NJ. Elite talent drafted and I would argue no plan to build with them.
So maybe I'm blurring a line here but they can't just move players out, lose and expect to be back in the saddle on the upswing in 2 years. I mean what if you can get a sign and trade with Jones to get pieces that are ready to play in the NHL but will need a year to adjust. I'm thinking players like Newhook, Byfield, Holloway, Lundell, Zegras, Foerster... and others. Obviously we dont' know where Seth wants to go but these players have shown high upside and ready, if not close, for NHL action. That has to be part of the plan. Not just draft and hope. Fill in by using the assets you do have and augment wtih some key character signings to add to the locker room and not let that slip. We can add young, NHL ready talent that may take some lumps next year but the rebuild is much quicker and that can only occur with a plan. Tanking is not a plan in my book.
The biggest problem with the tanking mindset (besides the obvious) is that all those teams that people love to use as examples were built during a different era. The league has since changed the rules to make it so that teams can't be built that way.
The Chicago/Pitt/LA/EDM style of tanking won't work anymore. We could finish bottom 3 for 5 years straight and still not pick inside the top 3.
Just going to disagree. If they end up with a bottom 3 pick next year because that's the way it plays out, fine, however, I think too many on here think that losing will solve this. That's absolutely not the case. Columbus only pulled out of being a perennial loser when they moved Nash for pieces that could help short and long term and change the culture. At this juncture, they need a plan, not just tank. If you hope that getting a top 3 pick the next two years saves this franchise I'll point you to Edmonton, Toronto, Buffalo and NJ. Elite talent drafted and I would argue no plan to build with them.
So maybe I'm blurring a line here but they can't just move players out, lose and expect to be back in the saddle on the upswing in 2 years. I mean what if you can get a sign and trade with Jones to get pieces that are ready to play in the NHL but will need a year to adjust. I'm thinking players like Newhook, Byfield, Holloway, Lundell, Zegras, Foerster... and others. Obviously we dont' know where Seth wants to go but these players have shown high upside and ready, if not close, for NHL action. That has to be part of the plan. Not just draft and hope. Fill in by using the assets you do have and augment wtih some key character signings to add to the locker room and not let that slip. We can add young, NHL ready talent that may take some lumps next year but the rebuild is much quicker and that can only occur with a plan. Tanking is not a plan in my book.
Buffalo is picking what this year ? Rules were changed as well as odds and this years draft pretty much went exactly how records dictatedThe biggest problem with the tanking mindset (besides the obvious) is that all those teams that people love to use as examples were built during a different era. The league has since changed the rules to make it so that teams can't be built that way.
The Chicago/Pitt/LA/EDM style of tanking won't work anymore. We could finish bottom 3 for 5 years straight and still not pick inside the top 3.
I was more referring to the LA that was dominant for almost the last decade when they won 2 cups in 3 years built around JJ, Doughty, Kopitar and Brown.I agree.
Chicago and Pitt were hugely different eras.
I don't know why people use LA as a good example. Yeah their prospect pool looks good but those are prospects that haven't proven a thing yet. LA isn't done. And they never traded their most valuable pieces (Doughty, Kopitar).
EDM has also yet to work out any better than our system. Sure it's fun to watch McDavid and Draisaitl but they haven't won a thing. And that came after they tried to build with high firsts.
I've been thinking of it as "the rebuild plan", because most of the time when people say "tanking" what they mean is "maximizing deliberate losses so as to improve lottery odds". Y'know, suicidal franchise-destroying garbage.What you just argued for, to my ears, is the tanking plan.
I've been thinking of it as "the rebuild plan", because most of the time when people say "tanking" what they mean is "maximizing deliberate losses so as to improve lottery odds". Y'know, suicidal franchise-destroying garbage.
Which is why if Zach can’t commit after the new coach is named , you trade him this summer as well .. what good does it do to be in same situation with Zach , as we are with Seth now , and he then only has 1 yr left on contract , which will hurt the return .. You ask Zach to commit being the guy we rebuild around this summer . I think with Laine you sign him with plans to be a trade deadline player , and execute that plan unless he’s blown your expectations away , and willing to talk long termIf Werenski and Elvis are gone in two years then we'll have taken care of the "franchise destruction" part bit either way, no problem achieving that goal.
Which is why if Zach can’t commit after the new coach is named , you trade him this summer as well .. what good does it do to be in same situation with Zach , as we are with Seth now , and he then only has 1 yr left on contract , which will hurt the return .. You ask Zach to commit being the guy we rebuild around this summer . I think with Laine you sign him with plans to be a trade deadline player , and execute that plan unless he’s blown your expectations away , and willing to talk long term
So you think getting Marner and or Eichel wouldn't help Laines situation at all?!- Absolutely try and get Zach to commit long term, but to get him to do that I think you might have to not suck. Like give him a plausibly good team to play with, and $8m+ and then ask him.
- Laine is a situational player. Do we have the situation for him to succeed? If not, then trade him now. I think if we keep him his value will fall by approximately half between now and the deadline.
So you think getting Marner and or Eichel wouldn't help Laines situation at all?!
Again, I may be blurring the lines but what my ears hear is that we lose purposefully with the HOPE that we get a top 2 pick in the draft and then the next draft. To me, fail to plan, plan to fail and unless someone adds more to the post than "lose a lot so we get a better draft pick", I'm not on board with that.What you just argued for, to my ears, is the tanking plan.
I was more referring to the LA that was dominant for almost the last decade when they won 2 cups in 3 years built around JJ, Doughty, Kopitar and Brown.
A couple top picks and a BUNCH of mid to late firsts. They had the right combination of high picks and some luck (Kopitar/Quick).
Upon further review, how pissed were philly fans about LA winning cups with so many philly drafted players??
Justin Williams(28th in 2000)
Mike Richards (24th in 2003)
Simon Gagne (22nd in 1998)
Jeff Carter (11th in 2003)
Colin Fraser (69th in 2003)
And as far as Edmonton.. They have one of the leagues best 1-2 punches and still have some really good depth. If management makes the right moves they're on their way to becoming yearly contenders.
Not at all, it’s just time to quit having a few good pieces here or there . Time to use this Jones news to give this franchise a purpose . The goal should be to get absolutely as many elite prospects / picks you can acquire for Jones , Werenski , Laine , coupled with the 3 1st rounders this year . Most likely this leads us to drafting in the top 3 next yr . Within a 1.5 yr period you have a mass influx of great prospects all coming in at the same time . Then when you are selling Columbus to a free agent , they see they all the talent in the organization and will be more willing to come here .Again, I may be blurring the lines but what my ears hear is that we lose purposefully with the HOPE that we get a top 2 pick in the draft and then the next draft. To me, fail to plan, plan to fail and unless someone adds more to the post than "lose a lot so we get a better draft pick", I'm not on board with that.
Of course we're all dealing in hypothetical right now but lets just say (one example, maybe not even realistic) Seth Jones agrees to an extension in a deal with Colorado (We can argue the merits of which team, which players, etc, again, just an example) and Columbus gets back Newhook, Timmons, Kaut and a cap adjustment (Compher?). They identify Hughes as their top player and take him at #5 (whomever they take, it will be BPA and a future player). This puts them really young down the middle but maybe Timmons is like Seth and just need an opportunity and more responsibility. He's going to play top4 RHD in Columbus so growing pains. Newhook will also play and is a natural center that may or may not be a #1C but he's another top 6C and you can't have too many of them. Kaut may or may not be ready for NHL duty but we're in decent shape on the RW so more learning. But that's three pieces that can help and a vet in Compher that can help in bottom 6.
You still have Korpi to move (likely a pick and prospect) but you also have some options with your young forwards like Foudy, Tex, Bemmstrom, Kaut, Laine... These can be earmarked for other assets. None of these statements are things we all don't know or haven't thought about but there is a plan that needs to be executed, not just lose. I don't know, just seems like too many are wishing on a piece of lottery luck and I'd rather work with assets we know and can control. If we lose but know there is a plan we should be able to recover even without Wright or Bedard or Lambert or Michkov. They only help drive us further. I want the elite talent just like all of you but there is talent already present. We need some lunch pail kids, some grit and leadership and having that and talent is ultimately the goal to get to the SC prize we all want.
So, I get it, long winded and probably, no shit sherlock, but there's been very little that I have seen beyond "tank for tank sake and we'll be great in 2 years when we win both lotteries!" If we lose, we lose but lets not be rudderless, awful to watch, no hope with any of our own talent type team. That's what we've seen with Buffalo, Detroit, NJ and even Edmonton and Toronto (thus far). None are close to winning the cup and that's a lot of wasted elite talent.
Majormajor probably thinks Laine will continue to receive bad the puck on the free ice, one don`t know shoot anymore etc... . So we must trade him now. GMs of other teams are agree.So you think getting Marner and or Eichel wouldn't help Laines situation at all?!
Again, I may be blurring the lines but what my ears hear is that we lose purposefully with the HOPE that we get a top 2 pick in the draft and then the next draft. To me, fail to plan, plan to fail and unless someone adds more to the post than "lose a lot so we get a better draft pick", I'm not on board with that.
Of course we're all dealing in hypothetical right now but lets just say (one example, maybe not even realistic) Seth Jones agrees to an extension in a deal with Colorado (We can argue the merits of which team, which players, etc, again, just an example) and Columbus gets back Newhook, Timmons, Kaut and a cap adjustment (Compher?). They identify Hughes as their top player and take him at #5 (whomever they take, it will be BPA and a future player). This puts them really young down the middle but maybe Timmons is like Seth and just need an opportunity and more responsibility. He's going to play top4 RHD in Columbus so growing pains. Newhook will also play and is a natural center that may or may not be a #1C but he's another top 6C and you can't have too many of them. Kaut may or may not be ready for NHL duty but we're in decent shape on the RW so more learning. But that's three pieces that can help and a vet in Compher that can help in bottom 6.
You still have Korpi to move (likely a pick and prospect) but you also have some options with your young forwards like Foudy, Tex, Bemmstrom, Kaut, Laine... These can be earmarked for other assets. None of these statements are things we all don't know or haven't thought about but there is a plan that needs to be executed, not just lose. I don't know, just seems like too many are wishing on a piece of lottery luck and I'd rather work with assets we know and can control. If we lose but know there is a plan we should be able to recover even without Wright or Bedard or Lambert or Michkov. They only help drive us further. I want the elite talent just like all of you but there is talent already present. We need some lunch pail kids, some grit and leadership and having that and talent is ultimately the goal to get to the SC prize we all want.
So, I get it, long winded and probably, no shit sherlock, but there's been very little that I have seen beyond "tank for tank sake and we'll be great in 2 years when we win both lotteries!" If we lose, we lose but lets not be rudderless, awful to watch, no hope with any of our own talent type team. That's what we've seen with Buffalo, Detroit, NJ and even Edmonton and Toronto (thus far). None are close to winning the cup and that's a lot of wasted elite talent.