Post-Game Talk: Buffalo Sabres at New York Rangers 4/10/2014

[Doctyl]

think MSL can build a relationship with Nash like he did Stamkos?

Well Nash seems to be the only player MSL has shown any chemistry with. He showed some with Richards, but all Richards would do was force MSL the puck.

 

[darko]

We have home ice locked up.

Columbus has a real shot at overtaking Philly for 3rd.

Lets hope they don't.

 

[Ail]

He's Norwegian.

Half and half.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

With nothing to play for, it would be a good thing to rest Richards and maybe play Lindberg on our 3rd line.

 

[TheTakedown]

Eh. Buffalo is an awful team overall, but they are a decent defensive team. I think the fact that we gave up so many chances is what's concerning. At least Hank was up to it tonight.

we really didnt though. Buffalo had 1 shot in the entire 2nd period, which was the "fluke" of a goal that they "scored"...

 

[TheTakedown]

Well Nash seems to be the only player MSL has shown any chemistry with. He showed some with Richards, but all Richards would do was force MSL the puck.

he still does. the play catch constantly. it's like Richards has been dying for this to happen and then he forgets how to play hockey all of the sudden :p

 

[Levitate]

I think hardly anyone can fault Nash for his goalscoring. He scored at a 30+ goal pace which is about what could be expected from him. But his assists pretty much tell the story. Sure he's primarily a goalscorer, but 13 assists is putrid for a supposed superstar first liner. And it's not just the number, it's the way he has played trying far too much on his own and making boneheaded plays. That and his sometimes questionable effort has earned him criticism and that's well deserved.

I mean, over the course of his career he's usually had a pretty even ratio of goals to assists, this season is a strange one in that regard. I don't even think it's totally about him just trying to do everything by himself, I think it's more that he's leaned on his linemates to get him the puck this season than having the puck on his stick as much. But whatever, I'll take the goals.

Half and half.

His mother is half Italian, hence the Zuccarello. Seems like he identifies as Norwegian though since he grew up there, etc.

 

[OverTheCap]

The biggest issue with Nash is inconsistent effort. If he had a work ethic like Zucc, he would probably be a top 5 forward in the league. He has the ability to be an impact player and a dominant force in almost every game he plays, but we just don't see that often enough from him.

 

[TheTakedown]

I mean, over the course of his career he's usually had a pretty even ratio of goals to assists, this season is a strange one in that regard. I don't even think it's totally about him just trying to do everything by himself, I think it's more that he's leaned on his linemates to get him the puck this season than having the puck on his stick as much. But whatever, I'll take the goals.

I'm also inclined to assume that this is the first real full season that Nash has not only played a competent system, but is also playing with competent line mates... Pretty sad that he never had that in Columbus.

either way, he'll come around. I'd bet money that next season we see 40 goals from him. just a gut feeling.

 

[aufheben]

I know he has Italian in him too but that's not French either.

 

[Levitate]

I'm also inclined to assume that this is the first real full season that Nash has not only played a competent system, but is also playing with competent line mates... Pretty sad that he never had that in Columbus.

either way, he'll come around. I'd bet money that next season we see 40 goals from him. just a gut feeling.

I know it's not "living up to his contract" but I'd take 30+30 and staying healthy next year out of him.

35+35 would be better though

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I missed the game, was the blueshirt off our back ceremony the same it's been since about the lockout where they all come out at the same time? It used to be the highlight of my season when the guys were called on the ice one by one, back in the day. Why did they change that?

 

[TheTakedown]

I missed the game, was the blueshirt off our back ceremony the same it's been since about the lockout where they all come out at the same time? It used to be the highlight of my season when the guys were called on the ice one by one, back in the day. Why did they change that?

everybody stayed on the ice, and the players started throwing their equipment into the stands hehe

 

[mas0764]

I think GWG are downplayed more here than they are overrated. Every goal in any game changes the face of that game. The fact is if those goals aren't scored, regardless of the timing, those games may very well turn out differently.

It doesn't really matter GWG aside because Rick Nash gets crapped on here unnecessarily because OMG contract as if the Rangers gave it to him or the Rangers paid him to score its equivalent number of points. Such a stupid argument and expectation.

It's not even the contract, it's that people developed an emotional bond to the 2011-12 team, including the two players in Dubi and Anisimov who were traded for him. All because of a magical (and unlikely to have been repeated) run to the ECF, which was really mostly the product of Lundqvist having a ridiculous Vezina campaign.

Nash also conjures up images of the old Rangers who would import aging superstars who were on the downside of their careers and ineffective in NY, so there is some resentment there when younger grittier fan favorite types are moved out for a guy who has a little bit of a laziness stench.

That being said, the hate against Nash is completely irrational. He's been a 30+ goal scoring pace for us both seasons here, which is so much more valuable than the 10-20 goal paces of Dubi and Anisimov when they were here, even combined, especially when we have so many other players of that caliber in the pipeline (Miller, Fast, etc) or already on the team (Hagelin).

The other difference between the Old Ranger Imports and Nash is that there is a solid foundation for the team of younger players and Nash can nicely compliment them. In the old days, it was all underachieving soft veteran players. You need a mix, though, and you need guys like Nash who can score 30+ goals for you, like the one last night, which not many other players on the team are capable of doing.

The concentration of 30 goals in one roster spot, is much more valuable than 30 goals spread across two roster spots. Because if you do it in one roster spot, you actually get to add another player to the mix too, so in two roster spots, it becomes 45 goals and not 30.

 

[aufheben]

I didn't like that trade because it shook up a team that just made the ECF. Lundqvist has been great for us his entire career, you don't get that many wins just because of your goalie, or we'd be winning the Conference every other season.

I still don't like that trade very much, but I don't dislike Nash, I think he's a beast.

 

[Holocene]

It's a really great feeling that after all the **** we've been through all year we get the 2 spot in the Metro. Not getting the 1 spot was probably never going to happen with the coaching change anyway.

I was pretty positive at the beginning of the season we'd finish 2nd in the Metro. It's been quite a roller coaster ride but we did it! Helps that when we were sucking so was the rest of the Metro. Too bad the rest of them starting turning it around the same time as us. Next year should be like 11-12 in terms of intra-division battling except I'd replace the Devils with the Jackets.

 

[mas0764]

I think hardly anyone can fault Nash for his goalscoring. He scored at a 30+ goal pace which is about what could be expected from him. But his assists pretty much tell the story. Sure he's primarily a goalscorer, but 13 assists is putrid for a supposed superstar first liner. And it's not just the number, it's the way he has played trying far too much on his own and making boneheaded plays. That and his sometimes questionable effort has earned him criticism and that's well deserved.

Nash is having a down season to be sure, but is still an invaluable piece here. I think people want him to be Mark Messier, but he's not that, and wasn't brought here to be that. He was brought here to be a scoring winger.

Your "top player" that is the real disappointment is Richards. He's the one that is supposed to be your #1 center, your best player, your leader, the guy that is setting up Nash to score over and over again.

And he's not.

Nash needs to be the Robin to someone's Batman. We saw in Columbus he wasn't able to single-handedly lead a team, so it's no surprise he can't do it here. But when we brought him here, I (and everyone else in NY) thought we had 40 goal scorer Marian Gaborik and 30 goal, 70 point Brad Richards.

They both immediately fell off a cliff; not Nash's fault.

Now we import St. Louis and he has been garbage since arriving too. Not coincidentally, St. Louis has been playing better the last 2-3 games and he and Nash are putting up important points.

Point is, Richards needs to go, and the Rangers need a new #1, 70 point top center.

I'd look pretty darn hard to find one this offseason. Including possibly trading a defenseman for Ryan O'Reilly or trying to snag a top prospect from someone. We've got McIlrath and Skjei to part with.

 

[mas0764]

I didn't like that trade because it shook up a team that just made the ECF. Lundqvist has been great for us his entire career, you don't get that many wins just because of your goalie, or we'd be winning the Conference every other season.

I still don't like that trade very much, but I don't dislike Nash, I think he's a beast.

I think it's pretty clear that, statistically speaking, that was Lundqvist's best year, though of course you can argue it was due to the team playing well around him, but I think personally it was Lundqvist just having a dominant year.

But even if it was the team, I don't think it was repeating. There was simply not enough scoring on that team to be Boston or Pittsburgh every year.

I just don't really miss anything that we gave up, other than maybe the first round pick. Take Nash off this team, and I just don't see where Dubi and AA fit in to make this team better than it currently is.

 

[aufheben]

Of course it was statistically, we also had a defense that was devoted to keeping shots to the outside. Would they have won the East again? Probably not. Does that mean they couldn't have gone farther in the playoffs? It's speculation, we'll never know what would have happened the next season.

We were 13th, then 12th in Goals For those last 2 years. We're 16th this year.

 

[profchaos2001]

It was mentioned earler in this thread that Nash single handedly earned the team 18 points because of the GWG. That doesnt sit right with me, no matter how you spin it

It's true. That is a fact. Doesn't matter how it "sits with you" or anyone else here. He has scored 9 goals that won the game. whether it's the second goal of a 6-1 rout or last night scoring with less than 2 minutes left to win 2-1. He won us 9 games, which gave us 18 more points that we might've not had.

 

[mas0764]

Of course it was statistically, we also had a defense that was devoted to keeping shots to the outside. Would they have won the East again? Probably not. Does that mean they couldn't have gone farther in the playoffs? It's speculation, we'll never know what would have happened the next season.

We were 13th, then 12th in Goals For those last 2 years. We're 16th this year.

Just my personal speculation, but not only do I not believe that we would have won the East again, I also do not believe we would have kept up that scoring pace, especially with Gaborik and Richards falling off.

And we're 16th this year, but aren't we much higher since like, November? I think that stat is a bit weighed down due to the horrendous start.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Of course it was statistically, we also had a defense that was devoted to keeping shots to the outside. Would they have won the East again? Probably not. Does that mean they couldn't have gone farther in the playoffs? It's speculation, we'll never know what would have happened the next season.

We were 13th, then 12th in Goals For those last 2 years. We're 16th this year.

I honestly think we're a better offense than that team. I bet if you take out the horrible start we had when we had a bunch of injuries, were adjusting to a new system, and Zucc was yet to break out, we'd be just outside the top 10 in offense too. Even then, watching the way the team drives the play offensively I don't think stats tell the whole story.

 

[Levitate]

I didn't like that trade because it shook up a team that just made the ECF. Lundqvist has been great for us his entire career, you don't get that many wins just because of your goalie, or we'd be winning the Conference every other season.

I still don't like that trade very much, but I don't dislike Nash, I think he's a beast.

In retrospect I don't think that ECF team would have continued to roll along in the years after...they really managed to play a great game almost every night that season and the system was worked to perfection. The next season the system bombed hard IMO...you can blame it on less depth but I think for one it was something that had to be done just right (the positioning can't be even a little off or more shots and passes would get through) and for two the rest of the league changed their approach a bit and found a way to work around Torts' system.

Of course it was statistically, we also had a defense that was devoted to keeping shots to the outside. Would they have won the East again? Probably not. Does that mean they couldn't have gone farther in the playoffs? It's speculation, we'll never know what would have happened the next season.

We were 13th, then 12th in Goals For those last 2 years. We're 16th this year.

I don't think they would have gone further because Torts was coaching and his very conservative style ended up killing them in the playoffs. They weren't winning the cup or even getting to the finals with that style IMO.

And we're 16th this year, but aren't we much higher since like, November? I think that stat is a bit weighed down due to the horrendous start.

Yeah it is weighed down by the terrible start, someone posted some stats that on December 20th, they were 26th in goals scored in the league. In the 44 games since then they've averaged about 3.05 goals per game which would be 4th best in the league if it was a full season average (obviously there are problems with comparing a half season average to other teams full season averages, but the point is more to show how well they've been playing offensively since December 20th)

 

[TheTakedown]

I think it's pretty clear that, statistically speaking, that was Lundqvist's best year, though of course you can argue it was due to the team playing well around him, but I think personally it was Lundqvist just having a dominant year.

But even if it was the team, I don't think it was repeating. There was simply not enough scoring on that team to be Boston or Pittsburgh every year.

I just don't really miss anything that we gave up, other than maybe the first round pick. Take Nash off this team, and I just don't see where Dubi and AA fit in to make this team better than it currently is.

I think on top of that, if we don't make that Nash trade, then we don't make that Gaborik trade... which replaced ALL of those players that we sent over to Cbus... Quite frankly, I think they work better here with AV than Artie and Duby would have... It's not often that you see a line with such magic as the Poo-Brass-Zucc line.

That traded ended up being Dubinsky and a 1st round pick for Nash, which is a trade you make every day.

We sent:
Marian Gaborik (from 12-13, this does not factor that Gabs is not the player he was back in 11-12)
Brandon Dubinsky
Artem Anisomov
Tim Erixon
1st round pick

FOR

Rick Nash
Derick Brassard
John Moore
Derek Dorsett


Those are, by far, clear upgrades when you compare it to what we shipped out. Brassard and Moore were clear upgrades over the AHL defenseman and 3rd live Anisimov centerman we sent over to CBus. Dubs is the only thing we really lost in this trade, but the chemistry we are seeing with Brass and his linemates is special. Gaborik and Richards fell off a cliff, and THAT is the reason that it works out that we made that trade.


When you look in hindsight, the trade really benefit us in the long run, especially since we hired AV after that trade.
Nash leading the team in scoring each year
Brass with a career high in goals
John Moore stepping in for 1st pairing duties and succeeding
Dorsett actually playing real hockey on the 4th line.

 

[aufheben]

I don't think it's a coincidence that the system wasn't as effective after changing half the forward lineup.

Nash has played for us as advertised.