Boston Bruins Bruins Prospects Discussion IV - Mod warning 565

[mikelvl]

Corey Pronman panned Ryan Lindgren in his Athletic article today, says he came away unimpressed with his lack of skill and offensive instincts. Unable to post link right now.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Corey Pronman panned Ryan Lindgren in his Athletic article today, says he came away unimpressed with his lack of skill and offensive instincts. Unable to post link right now.

Pronman had McAvoy ranked #26 in the 2016 draft.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Corey Pronman panned Ryan Lindgren in his Athletic article today, says he came away unimpressed with his lack of skill and offensive instincts. Unable to post link right now.

Just my personal opinion, but I am not a fan of Pronman as a talent evaluator. From the little I have seen of Lindgren at the WJC's and last year at Minnesota (as a true freshman), I thought he looked pretty damn good.

 

[mikelvl]

Just my personal opinion, but I am not a fan of Pronman as a talent evaluator. From the little I have seen of Lindgren at the WJC's and last year at Minnesota (as a true freshman), I thought he looked pretty damn good.

I agree with you. The article is a blurb on a couple of prospects for all 31 teams. There is no way for one person to watch those prospects enough to offer an accurate opinion. He probably watched one or two games at best. The international players, some video. I would trust the guys who watch them all the time. Pronman strikes me as fast food drive thru scouting.

 

[LouJersey]

Corey Pronman panned Ryan Lindgren in his Athletic article today, says he came away unimpressed with his lack of skill and offensive instincts. Unable to post link right now.

I'm sure Lindgren is equally unimpressed with Pronman's scouting "prowess". Has Corey actually been to a game yet or is he still ripping everyone else off and putting an "edgy twist" to it?

 

[DominicT]

I'm sure Lindgren is equally unimpressed with Pronman's scouting "prowess". Has Corey actually been to a game yet or is he still ripping everyone else off and putting an "edgy twist" to it?

If I could like this post 100 times, I would.

 

[neelynugs]

Corey Pronman panned Ryan Lindgren in his Athletic article today, says he came away unimpressed with his lack of skill and offensive instincts. Unable to post link right now.

my personal opinion is he's an arrogant d-bag with little clue about scouting. not saying lindgren is gonna be a star or anything,
but i've seen him enough to think he'll be a nice middle pairing guy with bite. guess we'll see.

 

[BruinsNetwork]

For those who don't follow me on twitter, this is what an NHL scout said to me in regards to Zboril. Although I have seen some flashes of greatness from him this season, it's hard to argue about the lack of cohesion in his game. 0-points as a two-way defender whom was playing the top-pair for a while, and is still on the 2nd-pair in Providence.

Zboril did suffer what's believed to be a concussion after a nasty hit by Andrey Pedan, and while he was playing better the past 5 games or so, there is still much left to be desired.

In short, even though it's very early and much can change in the coming years, there should be legitimate concerns about Zboril.

 

[Estlin]

For those who don't follow me on twitter, this is what an NHL scout said to me in regards to Zboril. Although I have seen some flashes of greatness from him this season, it's hard to argue about the lack of cohesion in his game. 0-points as a two-way defender whom was playing the top-pair for a while, and is still on the 2nd-pair in Providence.

Zboril did suffer what's believed to be a concussion after a nasty hit by Andrey Pedan, and while he was playing better the past 5 games or so, there is still much left to be desired.

In short, even though it's very early and much can change in the coming years, there should be legitimate concerns about Zboril.

That is concerning about Zboril indeed. Still, you can't criticize Boston for the pick because he was selected where predicted and was generally considered to be the best D prospect available at that point in the draft.

 

[DKH]

Corey Pronman panned Ryan Lindgren in his Athletic article today, says he came away unimpressed with his lack of skill and offensive instincts. Unable to post link right now.

I'm sure he gives his mother a smooch when he visits but I've been completely unimpressed by Corey Pronman takes the past 10-15 years

 

[ODAAT]

I'm sure Lindgren is equally unimpressed with Pronman's scouting "prowess". Has Corey actually been to a game yet or is he still ripping everyone else off and putting an "edgy twist" to it?

/thread

perfect post

 

[LastWordArmy]

Rookies continue to produce for injured Bruins team.

Boston Bruins Rookies Continue to Produce As Injuries Plague the Team

 

[BruinsNetwork]

That is concerning about Zboril indeed. Still, you can't criticize Boston for the pick because he was selected where predicted and was generally considered to be the best D prospect available at that point in the draft.

The funny thing is, I see people say "they should have taken Chabot" all the time.

I've been trying to tell fans since the 2015 draft about the difference between the public rankings they see, and what NHL teams have on their own lists. Some are wildly different from one another, public and private.

DeBrusk and Senyshyn were taken "off the board" as we all know where Senyshyn was projected to be drafted, and DeBrusk wasn't as high as 14, either.

Many fans still get so worked up over the "best player available" position that would have allegedly had the Bruins picking Barzal and Connor as a result of the public rankings in which they've seen.

Well, that's an argument that should be laid to rest so I try not to get myself involved anymore. However, there is some irony to Zboril as a draft pick at this current stage in his development. He was considered the "best player available" and was ranked higher than Chabot (for good reason, too) so not many people debated that pick. Now, there are legitimate concerns that the consensus "best player available" might not make it.

 

[DKH]

my personal opinion is he's an arrogant d-bag with little clue about scouting. not saying lindgren is gonna be a star or anything,
but i've seen him enough to think he'll be a nice middle pairing guy with bite. guess we'll see.

I remember when Pronman started writing I was hopeful but took about 5 columns I had this guy pegged.

In fairness I haven't read him hardly at all other than a curiosity scan the past few years because of his lack of hockey knowledge.

It's a shame my mother didn't have me on the Canadian side of the Falls I could have provided insight and humor with a bit of humbleness to the hockey information world.

Sorry Canada

 

[DominicT]

The funny thing is, I see people say "they should have taken Chabot" all the time.

I've been trying to tell fans since the 2015 draft about the difference between the public rankings they see, and what NHL teams have on their own lists. Some are wildly different from one another, public and private.

DeBrusk and Senyshyn were taken "off the board" as we all know where Senyshyn was projected to be drafted, and DeBrusk wasn't as high as 14, either.

Many fans still get so worked up over the "best player available" position that would have allegedly had the Bruins picking Barzal and Connor as a result of the public rankings in which they've seen.

Well, that's an argument that should be laid to rest so I try not to get myself involved anymore. However, there is some irony to Zboril as a draft pick at this current stage in his development. He was considered the "best player available" and was ranked higher than Chabot (for good reason, too) so not many people debated that pick. Now, there are legitimate concerns that the consensus "best player available" might not make it.

And that's the problem with trying to project 18 year olds. I'm sure AOF will come here and tell us it is a right or wrong thing.

While there is some right and wrong involved, I consider the draft to be more of a gamble than the simple black and white. As has been mentioned so many times before, 200+ players get selected every year. The league doesn't turn completely over every three years so the vast majority are not going to make it.

I too shared many of the concerns surrounding Zboril when he was drafted and that continue to be there. The Bruins gambled, and truth be told, I probably would have as well if I were running the draft, that he would be able to work things out.

The bet is still on the table. Long way to go. If I had a do-over, I'd still make the same choice.

 

[BruinsNetwork]

And that's the problem with trying to project 18 year olds. I'm sure AOF will come here and tell us it is a right or wrong thing.

While there is some right and wrong involved, I consider the draft to be more of a gamble than the simple black and white. As has been mentioned so many times before, 200+ players get selected every year. The league doesn't turn completely over every three years so the vast majority are not going to make it.

I too shared many of the concerns surrounding Zboril when he was drafted and that continue to be there. The Bruins gambled, and truth be told, I probably would have as well if I were running the draft, that he would be able to work things out.

The bet is still on the table. Long way to go. If I had a do-over, I'd still make the same choice.

And I agree, Dom.

There is no exact science to the draft, and I doubt there ever will be unless someone learns how to predict the future.

As far as Zboril, I would also make that pick again if it were me. The issues were there and still are, but the chance that he pays off on the upside is worth it, IMO.

A tenacious, two-way defender who can really throw some crushing hits. That's a rare asset in the NHL, so drafting a player who played that style of game but has some shortcomings is a warranted risk.

 

[Grasshopperking]

Looking at the 2014-16 draft has me WILDIN

I could see every player selected in 2014 playing in the NHL.
All but the two final picks of the 2015 draft are already in the AHL at the minimum
2016 has given us McAvoy already
The picks, the variety, the quality. I'm so happy with these years and it's exciting! I never felt like this with drafts Chiarelli oversaw (I started really paying attention to prospects in 2007 so I just missed the Lucic Marchand Kessel draft)

 

[DominicT]

And I agree, Dom.

There is no exact science to the draft, and I doubt there ever will be unless someone learns how to predict the future.

As far as Zboril, I would also make that pick again if it were me. The issues were there and still are, but the chance that he pays off on the upside is worth it, IMO.

A tenacious, two-way defender who can really throw some crushing hits. That's a rare asset in the NHL, so drafting a player who played that style of game but has some shortcomings is a warranted risk.

I think I have been pretty lucky. Not trying to brag, but my record is above the median. But I have a lot of time on my hands. More than most. When I am at a game, my DVR is set to record every other game going on. (I am strictly talking OHL here).

So, I've watched each draft eligible player 68 times plus playoffs. (minus injuries/suspensions and that kind of stuff). So there's none of this watching him two or three times and trying to get a read. And no 'catching him on a bad night stuff. Obviously, the more you can watch a kid, the better handle you can get.

I also spend time talking to those around him. If you read my profile on Evan Bouchard, you will see I spent some time talking to Knights GM Rob Simpson. In cases like that you get the good, the bad and the ugly. Of course, a lot of it Is off the record (I am sure as you progress in your venture, you will find that as you build relationships, those people are willing to share info with you and trust you). You can't just go out and print it, but it reflects in you ranking those players.

 

[wintersej]

Any Lauzon updates?

 

[Over the volcano]

Interesting stuff on Senyshyn from Mark D. Kid certainly seems to have his head on straight and speed/skills to burn.

P-Bruins Gameday — Senyshyn looks to continue solid stretch

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

And that's the problem with trying to project 18 year olds. I'm sure AOF will come here and tell us it is a right or wrong thing.

While there is some right and wrong involved, I consider the draft to be more of a gamble than the simple black and white. As has been mentioned so many times before, 200+ players get selected every year. The league doesn't turn completely over every three years so the vast majority are not going to make it.

I too shared many of the concerns surrounding Zboril when he was drafted and that continue to be there. The Bruins gambled, and truth be told, I probably would have as well if I were running the draft, that he would be able to work things out.

The bet is still on the table. Long way to go. If I had a do-over, I'd still make the same choice.

Little sorry you feel this way. For the record ive always always always said evaluating picks is a crapshoot and everyone is more wrong then right.

I never mean to imply you arent way better at it than people like me... but when we look at past drafts we see every expert with multiple misses. Thats simple reality

Not sure why you think ive ever said anything to the contrary. This has been a point ive made 100s of times here in multiple debates when people start slamming draft picks

 

[DKH]

Little sorry you feel this way. For the record ive always always always said evaluating picks is a crapshoot and everyone is more wrong then right.

I never mean to imply you arent way better at it than people like me... but when we look at past drafts we see every expert with multiple misses. Thats simple reality

Not sure why you think ive ever said anything to the contrary. This has been a point ive made 100s of times here in multiple debates when people start slamming draft picks

There is serious serious serious separation from people here as relates to knowing players

You toss a broad blanket over everyone

Some are just better - even myself who would have Edmonton 10 points better I still occasionally miss a player. It happens even to the best of us

But for a fan without the assess or network some here have you do a nice job thinking up trades and commenting on the Bruins

Keep it up but don't beat yourself up for missing on prospects

Your strength is interesting trades

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

There is serious serious serious separation from people here as relates to knowing players

You toss a broad blanket over everyone

Some are just better - even myself who would have Edmonton 10 points better I still occasionally miss a player. It happens even to the best of us

But for a fan without the assess or network some here have you do a nice job thinking up trades and commenting on the Bruins

I hate trying to judge anyone i dont know so i try to stay away from personal stuff other than to say who my favorite posters are. I hope dom knows hes one of my top 5 favorites

I never want to single out someones credibility when i say teams arent alowed to tamper with other teams players as far as rumor leaks go... or if i say draft success is below 50% successful outside the top 5 picks...

So my blanket statement... that all insiders and all draft experts should have humility because they are all wrong more often.

But never would i say i dont like the inside info... or i dont value prospect scouting. And absolutely i think some insiders and experts come across more credible than others

Im neither an insider nor an expert. But i try to be a student of the info i can get my hands on. Without people like dom sharing their inside and expertise, people like me would be basing our own hunches on garbage.

I just wondered why dom said id be here arguing right and wrong about prospect evaluation because thats someting ive never done in my 15 years here

 

[DKH]

I hate trying to judge anyone i dont know so i try to stay away from personal stuff other than to say who my favorite posters are. I hope dom knows hes one of my top 5 favorites

I never want to single out someones credibility when i say teams arent alowed to tamper with other teams players as far as rumor leaks go... or if i say draft success is below 50% successful outside the top 5 picks...

So my blanket statement... that all insiders and all draft experts should have humility because they are all wrong more often.

But never would i say i dont like the inside info... or i dont value prospect scouting. And absolutely i think some insiders and experts come across more credible than others

Im neither an insider nor an expert. But i try to be a student of the info i can get my hands on. Without people like dom sharing their inside and expertise, people like me would be basing our own hunches on garbage.

I just wondered why dom said id be here arguing right and wrong about prospect evaluation because thats someting ive never done in my 15 years here

Ok good I get your point

To summarize this

You are saying people get more wrong then right regarding drafting prospects

I say some people here know a lot more about prospects than others

Think Ted Williams

Even as the last hitter to hit over .400 (.406) he had more outs than hits

I always say I hated the Bergeron pick in 2003 and never heard of Bjork or Heinen in 2014. Yet I nailed Pastrnak at a draft party before the draft started (of course I was told Sweeney twice went on week long trips during December and February to watch him so I actually really didn't discover anything it could be argued I just asked where he was to someone I knew well enough and long enough where ther told me)

Bur he was an all time great hitter and maybe the most patient as well as his lifetime On-Base % shows

Bingo!!! Hakuna Matata

 

[Colt.45Orr]

I liked the Zboril pick (being one of the three picks) at the time and was A-OK with it. I had talked to Woodlief before the draft about him and he compared him to Emelin and he liked my comparison to Gudas (when I posted those here) some people thought that was really selling him low. At this point, I'd gladly take a (more mobile) Emelin or a (smarter) Gudas --both of those guys bring value to their team.

I think Zboril could end up being a really valuable 3rd pairing Dman (PK, physical presence etc) but all my viewings of him were all over the place (from "great" to "lost") so he is going to need some serious AHL time.