Bruins Off Season III

[BruinDust]

Right. And right now our top RHD man is either Colin Miller or Kevan Miller. And no matter how you slice it, Kevan Miller is in our top 4. I'd call that a disaster of far greater proportions than having Jimmy Hayes as your best RW.

I'm not a fan of either player, but yeah this statement is flat out wrong.

 

[BB88]

I haven't seen enough of Trouba/Larsson to say one is better than the other, but I do believe that Chia got fleeced in that deal. I would say the same if he had dealt Hall for Trouba.

Also, just because Chia made one bad deal, that doesn't mean it's a trend. Every team is different and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. For whatever reason, Chia felt the need for a Larsson-type D was so great he was willing to part with Hall. On the other hand, Don Sweeney was willing to part with a different type of D in Hamilton for picks. So, who knows what WPG will think is fair value given their current situation?

I think Chia knew he was going to sign Lucic few days later and Pulju had just dropped to them.
So one can look at it Lucic+Larsson vs Hall, with Pulju being extra bonus.

And Hall was the only player Devils were interested from Oilers lineup, of course outside of McDavid.

I think he should have gotten a pick atleast to go with Larsson but the team looks better today than it did on game 82 last season.

 

[Duguay]

I'm not sure if you read some of the posts preceding mine, but not everyone thinks that WPG has the hammer to the extent you seem to think? Whether they have the time and patience remains to be seen.

I maintain the idea that every deal is unique, including the three that you so cavalierly clump together above

Of coarse every deal is unique Joe. Just not as unique as that one. Market value is established through comparables, just like in Real Estate. My only request is that we stop ripping holes on one side of the boat, only to patch up the other side. Look at what we're scrambling to address here. And btw, I appreciate 'unique,' but that is a word that is also for 'the eyes of the beholder.' Some see unique, others see odd.

 

[bp13]

Ok so you are GM of Boston what is your deal to get Trouba

I have no idea what Winnipeg wants and that's not the point. The point is the Bruins have a major need for a top 3 dman for the next few seasons, and they've had that same need now since the current GM dealt the only player in the system with that promise. I'm noting that it's on him to close a deal and he deserves every bit of criticism he gets until he does. Could be Trouba or anyone else, but this current defense isn't fit for prime time and we all know it.

As for a made up Trouba offer, I already posted to you twice this morning. I'd offer Carlo, a 1st round pick and another prospect. I'd also consider Pastrnak straight up if I knew Trouba was my only real option. The only prospect I wouldn't deal for him is McAvoy.

 

[DKH]

I have no idea what Winnipeg wants and that's not the point. The point is the Bruins have a major need for a top 3 dman for the next few seasons, and they've had that same need now since the current GM dealt the only player in the system with that promise. I'm noting that it's on him to close a deal and he deserves every bit of criticism he gets until he does. Could be Trouba or anyone else, but this current defense isn't fit for prime time and we all know it.

As for a made up Trouba offer, I already posted to you twice this morning. I'd offer Carlo, a 1st round pick and another prospect. I'd also consider Pastrnak straight up if I knew Trouba was my only real option. The only prospect I wouldn't deal for him is McAvoy.

Yah good offer I will just say unless my info is wrong Pasta ain't going anywhere

Hopefully resolved soon one way or another

 

[Blowfish]

I have no idea what Winnipeg wants and that's not the point. The point is the Bruins have a major need for a top 3 dman for the next few seasons, and they've had that same need now since the current GM dealt the only player in the system with that promise. I'm noting that it's on him to close a deal and he deserves every bit of criticism he gets until he does. Could be Trouba or anyone else, but this current defense isn't fit for prime time and we all know it.

As for a made up Trouba offer, I already posted to you twice this morning. I'd offer Carlo, a 1st round pick and another prospect. I'd also consider Pastrnak straight up if I knew Trouba was my only real option. The only prospect I wouldn't deal for him is McAvoy.

I'm on board with this proposal and like many here would hate to see Krug leave because of his intangibles however I would not be shocked if he's involved in a trade. I believe the Bruins have some options internally to replace a Krug or Carlo if need be. Carlo does look real good so far. I wonder if Colin Miller covetes any interest.

 

[ddpk]

Ummmmm

Please guys, don't become like the people here in Montreal. Please. lol

I think people need to give DS a chance and stop judging him based on 16 months on the job.

The only way to properly build a hockey team for sustained future success is through the draft and from within. That's what is happening.

Now, a top pairing D would be great. It would bridge the gap till some of the prospects begin to make their mark. However, I would not overpay unless it was an absolute no-brainer. In my estimation this isn't a no-brainer. Maybe there is a reason WPG doesn't feel like playing him on his strong side above Myers and Buff. Perhaps his overall hockey IQ is in question.

Much like Dougie Hamilton, I don't believe the hype. Hamilton, despite Haggs and other bozo opinions, was not going to bare the TORCH of our D corps and lead the way as the Bruins #1 d-man. I watched him in Junior, Team Canada, and with the Bruins. Just not in his DNA to be that TYPE of D. Soft, leaned on others to bail him out far too often, kept making the same mistakes over and over, didn't use his so called skill set when having to retrieve pucks under pressure and make plays.

Now, Trouba is not the same player as DH and I would definitely like him in Boston as a top 4 learning under Z, Julien and Cassidy but some things about his play are in question. I like the fact that the Bruins are now in the drivers seat. DS has kept ALL OF HIS ASSETS. The prospects are taking strides in the right direction. WPG is the TEAM IN A PREDICAMENT. Leverage is being lost by the day. If patience is what it takes then so be it and I would not overpay for this player. WPG has to come down with their demands at some point. They would like to win now therefore they have to get something in return so that they can have those assets help them as soon as possible. As Kirk Leudeke mentioned. You have to give to get. However, there is no rush to overpay for this player at this time. Maybe there are other deals on the table. A little patience people.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Its hilarious people claiming McAvoy is untouchable for a proven young top D man.


Winnipeg would consider him a throw in with the apparent interest. Spooner+Krug or Pasternak+1st or 2nd is what it would take to beat the other offers that are going to come in from the looks of the interest out there. Right now.

Winnipeg might get as good a return as Nashville got for Seth Jones.


We have so many D prospects that it would be great if 1-2 of them were the crux of the deal because there might be a log jam of guys in the future waiting to break through who can only handle a 3rd pairing role. Like the D prospects but if they can get this guy I give them up in a second. As throw ins no F-ing way.


Pasternak+McAvoy sounds like a pretty good and fair deal but that is clearly my biggest offer and I likely demand a 2nd/3rd back. If Winnipeg can get better than that its best we stay out of the bidding.


Sort of starting to get a Vesey like feeling of the player in question being overrated no matter what though. But if Jacob Trouba were named Hamilton I don't let him leave even if hes being a diva and not cooperating like Hamilton was.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

The bigger fleece is picks 16 (Barzal and also passing on Connor) and 33 (could have had Carlo) for Griffin Reinhart

Ouch

YUP.

You were all over this disaster of a trade when it happened. Such weird timing too it seemed like a total knee jerk reaction to us grabbing his guy with one of our 3 picks. Senny I guess.


Chiarelli never made a deal that bad in Boston. 3 years of Loui on the best deal in the league plus Smith and Morrow for Seggy is 10x better.


Might be worse than the ill fated Vermette deal.


Edmonton might be a legit contender if they had made more deals like Hall for Larsson sooner before their top picks lost their value. Guys like Yak, Gagner, Pajarvi Svenson, etc etc I think their front office spends more time on HFboards than me and you put together and have purple names because they stupidly shared the same opinions of all these guys that their fanbase had that tehy had the trade value of established perrennial all stars. Until it was too late and the value was zilch. Moving guys like that early for proven players who have defensive strengths as well would ahve changed their fate. Top 5 pick coming up.


Sweeney's biggest blunder could end up being not having the balls to let PC have Dougie Hamilton. We may have hit the lottery and done better than we did when Kessel wasn't moved for Blum or Kaberle and instead 2 1sts on the worst team in the league. And yeah, I think I'd rather have 2-3 top 5 picks than Zboril/Senny/DeBrusk.

 

[DKH]

Please guys, don't become like the people here in Montreal. Please. lol
I think people need to give DS a chance and stop judging him based on 16 months on the job.
The only way to properly build a hockey team for sustained future success is through the draft and from within. That's what is happening.
Now, a top pairing D would be great. It would bridge the gap till some of the prospects begin to make their mark. However, I would not overpay unless it was an absolute no-brainer. In my estimation this isn't a no-brainer. Maybe there is a reason WPG doesn't feel like playing him on his strong side above Myers and Buff. Perhaps his overall hockey IQ is in question. Much like Dougie Hamilton, I don't believe the hype. Hamilton, despite Haggs and other bozo opinions, was not going to bare the TORCH of our D corps and lead the way as the Bruins #1 d-man. I watched him in Junior, Team Canada, and with the Bruins. Just not in his DNA to be that TYPE of D. Soft, leaned on others to bail him out far too often, kept making the same mistakes over and over, didn't use his so called skill set when having to retrieve pucks under pressure and make plays. Now, Trouba is not the same player as DH and I would definitely like him in Boston as a top 4 learning under Z, Julien and Cassidy but some things about his play are in question. I like the fact that the Bruins are now in the drivers seat. DS has kept ALL OF HIS ASSETS. The prospects are taking strides in the right direction. WPG is the TEAM IN A PREDICAMENT. Leverage is being lost by the day. If patience is what it takes then so be it and I would not overpay for this player. WPG has to come down with their demands at some point. They would like to win now therefore they have to get something in return so that they can have those assets help them as soon as possible. As Kirk Leudeke mentioned. You have to give to get. However, there is no rush to overpay for this player at this time. Maybe there are other deals on the table. A little patience people.

Good stuff - sgree on Trouba vs DH. He's the type of player I think would be a good player here but as stated know need to overpay certainly at this point

 

[kdog82]

Its hilarious people claiming McAvoy is untouchable for a proven young top D man.


Winnipeg would consider him a throw in with the apparent interest. Spooner+Krug or Pasternak+1st or 2nd is what it would take to beat the other offers that are going to come in from the looks of the interest out there. Right now.

Winnipeg might get as good a return as Nashville got for Seth Jones.


We have so many D prospects that it would be great if 1-2 of them were the crux of the deal because there might be a log jam of guys in the future waiting to break through who can only handle a 3rd pairing role. Like the D prospects but if they can get this guy I give them up in a second. As throw ins no F-ing way.


Pasternak+McAvoy sounds like a pretty good and fair deal but that is clearly my biggest offer and I likely demand a 2nd/3rd back. If Winnipeg can get better than that its best we stay out of the bidding.


Sort of starting to get a Vesey like feeling of the player in question being overrated no matter what though. But if Jacob Trouba were named Hamilton I don't let him leave even if hes being a diva and not cooperating like Hamilton was.

McAvoy will not get traded for Trouba. Boston has a plethora of young dmen. If Winnipeg wants, they can have any one of the other guys.

 

[PlayMakers]

Where are we? Nobody gets to float some theory like it's fact and use it as an excuse for an inactive GM. If you can show that defensemen are getting ransoms on the market, I'll believe you when you say Sweeney needs to overpay. But if you can't, this suggestion that the market is tough doesn't carry any weight.

To be fair, you're kind of moving the goal posts here. You're saying show you proof a top RHD getting traded for a ransom, but then saying the only example we have in the last 6 months doesn't count.

How about the Subban trade? Or the Seth Jones trade? Do they count?

It's kind of hard to prove something when you're not allowed to use any evidence. You can't prove that top pair RHD are cheap by citing any examples in the last 6 months. See what I'm sayin?

I think we have to try and read the landscape a little here too. I mean, we KNOW teams are desperate for quality defensemen and we KNOW quality defensemen are available. So why haven't deals been made? Doesn't it stand to reason that prices are too high?

 

[Duguay]

Please guys, don't become like the people here in Montreal. Please. lol
I think people need to give DS a chance and stop judging him based on 16 months on the job.
The only way to properly build a hockey team for sustained future success is through the draft and from within. That's what is happening.
Now, a top pairing D would be great. It would bridge the gap till some of the prospects begin to make their mark. However, I would not overpay unless it was an absolute no-brainer. In my estimation this isn't a no-brainer. Maybe there is a reason WPG doesn't feel like playing him on his strong side above Myers and Buff. Perhaps his overall hockey IQ is in question. Much like Dougie Hamilton, I don't believe the hype. Hamilton, despite Haggs and other bozo opinions, was not going to bare the TORCH of our D corps and lead the way as the Bruins #1 d-man. I watched him in Junior, Team Canada, and with the Bruins. Just not in his DNA to be that TYPE of D. Soft, leaned on others to bail him out far too often, kept making the same mistakes over and over, didn't use his so called skill set when having to retrieve pucks under pressure and make plays. Now, Trouba is not the same player as DH and I would definitely like him in Boston as a top 4 learning under Z, Julien and Cassidy but some things about his play are in question. I like the fact that the Bruins are now in the drivers seat. DS has kept ALL OF HIS ASSETS. The prospects are taking strides in the right direction. WPG is the TEAM IN A PREDICAMENT. Leverage is being lost by the day. If patience is what it takes then so be it and I would not overpay for this player. WPG has to come down with their demands at some point. They would like to win now therefore they have to get something in return so that they can have those assets help them as soon as possible. As Kirk Leudeke mentioned. You have to give to get. However, there is no rush to overpay for this player at this time. Maybe there are other deals on the table. A little patience people.

Fair enough. Lets watch Chevy work here and use it as a case study. We'll see if he can he manage this rather semi-regular occurrence. He is a very patient man. I could be wrong, but I think he'll figure something beneficial out. He'll take his time probably. So should the Bruins, as I have stated. Not a sellers market on this day.

BTW, Hype is good, when you have an asset. It doesn't matter what one thinks about player A or B.....Hamilton may not have been a torch bearer, or may never be, but other GM's in the league happened to disagree at the time, and that is the prevailing point here..... in my humble estimation.

poor trades and poor long term planning will put you where we are today.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Its hilarious people claiming McAvoy is untouchable for a proven young top D man.


Winnipeg would consider him a throw in with the apparent interest. Spooner+Krug or Pasternak+1st or 2nd is what it would take to beat the other offers that are going to come in from the looks of the interest out there. Right now.

Winnipeg might get as good a return as Nashville got for Seth Jones.


We have so many D prospects that it would be great if 1-2 of them were the crux of the deal because there might be a log jam of guys in the future waiting to break through who can only handle a 3rd pairing role. Like the D prospects but if they can get this guy I give them up in a second. As throw ins no F-ing way.


Pasternak+McAvoy sounds like a pretty good and fair deal but that is clearly my biggest offer and I likely demand a 2nd/3rd back. If Winnipeg can get better than that its best we stay out of the bidding.


Sort of starting to get a Vesey like feeling of the player in question being overrated no matter what though. But if Jacob Trouba were named Hamilton I don't let him leave even if hes being a diva and not cooperating like Hamilton was.

There is no way I deal Pasta and McAvoy for Trouba. Trouba alone doesn't fix the B's and guarantee a shot at a Cup.

 

[bp13]

To be fair, you're kind of moving the goal posts here. You're saying show you proof a top RHD getting traded for a ransom, but then saying the only example we have in the last 6 months doesn't count.

How about the Subban trade? Or the Seth Jones trade? Do they count?

It's kind of hard to prove something when you're not allowed to use any evidence. You can't prove that top pair RHD are cheap by citing any examples in the last 6 months. See what I'm sayin?

I think we have to try and read the landscape a little here too. I mean, we KNOW teams are desperate for quality defensemen and we KNOW quality defensemen are available. So why haven't deals been made? Doesn't it stand to reason that prices are too high?

Bill I'm not remotely suggesting that top 3 D are cheap. Not one bit. In fact, I definitely think it's reasonable to assume that defenseman are generally more expensive on the marketplace just because of their value, development curve, etc. So I wouldn't argue with your reasonable point at all.

I'm just not a fan of handing the GM a ready-made excuse for a problem he helped create. I mean IF we assume "prices are too high", as you suggest, did he get nearly enough for his only top 3 D in the system just last summer? I mean either way he's on the hook here, unless you think for some reason the marketplace has shifted so drastically in a year despite the number of good young d-men we've seen enter the league recently. Either he sold Hamilton for less than he should have and created this problem, or he underestimated the cost it would take to replace him in the top 4. Either way he shouldnt get a pass, and I think it's become commonplace now to defend him by pointing to the marketplace. One way or the other he screwed up, and he's got a problem he needs to fix.

 

[DKH]

Bill I'm not remotely suggesting that top 3 D are cheap. Not one bit. In fact, I definitely think it's reasonable to assume that defenseman are generally more expensive on the marketplace just because of their value, development curve, etc. So I wouldn't argue with your reasonable point at all.

I'm just not a fan of handing the GM a ready-made excuse for a problem he helped create. I mean IF we assume "prices are too high", as you suggest, did he get nearly enough for his only top 3 D in the system just last summer? I mean either way he's on the hook here, unless you think for some reason the marketplace has shifted so drastically in a year despite the number of good young d-men we've seen enter the league recently. Either he sold Hamilton for less than he should have and created this problem, or he underestimated the cost it would take to replace him in the top 4. Either way he shouldnt get a pass, and I think it's become commonplace now to defend him by pointing to the marketplace. One way or the other he screwed up, and he's got a problem he needs to fix.

Wait. Sweeney helped create? You mean is fixing.

I can't wait to hear the silence when Dougie is on his third team before 25 and the three Bruins guys are all better

The excuses are going to be awesome

Thankfully I have a mental list to bring out and share

 

[BigGoalBrad]

McAvoy will not get traded for Trouba. Boston has a plethora of young dmen. If Winnipeg wants, they can have any one of the other guys.

McAvoy looked great at the prospects international tournament this summer.


But people have to realize that in order for him to maintain the high stock he currently has on this board he will have to outplay the 5-6 very high NHL draft picks that will be his teammates this year.

I don't think people have an ounce of appreciation how much more pressure a very young player in McAvoy will be under this year. Last year he had none and was under the radar. No Grizz to play with. 1st round pick of the Bruins playing in Boston. Still very young. Expected to be their top D man. The writing is on the wall for him to have a Zboril like regression post draft year.

Zboril likely has the same value to Winnipeg as a 3rd round pick and would be a throw in. McAvoy could be sold as better than Trouba down the road. Its just a good time to cash in that chip via a trade.

I do McAvoy+Pasternak. I love Pasternak, and I really like the fact that the goals he scores are almost always important clutch ones. But I don't see him topping 50 points in the next few years. If we can get Trouba for less even better. But I do it.

If people don't see the logjam of youngsters waiting to break in on the third pairing that is going to occur in 2 years they are delusional. Its really OK to move the best of the bunch for someone who replaces Chara immediately and slots him down. Just don't give up Krug under any circumstances is where I stand.

I don't do Krug for Trouba straight up b/c we can't gamble on finding a new PP QB. We have him and his deal is very managable. LOTS of good contracts on our team.

Pasternak will be a 4-5 mil cap hit this time next year unless he has a terrible season. He won't be a bad deal but this is the last year he is a bargain. Again good time to trade.

 

[bp13]

Wait. Sweeney helped create? You mean is fixing.

I can't wait to hear the silence when Dougie is on his third team before 25 and the three Bruins guys are all better

The excuses are going to be awesome

Thankfully I have a mental list to bring out and share

Yes, he did help create it. Dougie Hamilton is absolutely better than every other defenseman on our team not named Chara or Krug. And do you debate that Hamilton's value at the time of his deal was roughly equivalent to Larssons when he was dealt? I think he was absolutely valued as a future #2/#3 in the NHL. You can disagree with that valuation and maybe time will prove you right, but that's where Boston should have pegged him at and that's the return they should have gotten.

So while Sweeney wasn't exactly handed a good defense, he traded one of the best 3 dmen who still had upside and was under control. So yes, he helped create the problem he faces today.

 

[Oates2Neely]

Bill I'm not remotely suggesting that top 3 D are cheap. Not one bit. In fact, I definitely think it's reasonable to assume that defenseman are generally more expensive on the marketplace just because of their value, development curve, etc. So I wouldn't argue with your reasonable point at all.

I'm just not a fan of handing the GM a ready-made excuse for a problem he helped create. I mean IF we assume "prices are too high", as you suggest, did he get nearly enough for his only top 3 D in the system just last summer? I mean either way he's on the hook here, unless you think for some reason the marketplace has shifted so drastically in a year despite the number of good young d-men we've seen enter the league recently. Either he sold Hamilton for less than he should have and created this problem, or he underestimated the cost it would take to replace him in the top 4. Either way he shouldnt get a pass, and I think it's become commonplace now to defend him by pointing to the marketplace. One way or the other he screwed up, and he's got a problem he needs to fix.

He sold Hamilton on the cheap. Naysayers will point to Sweeney getting better picks than he would have had if there were an offer sheet, but that's bs. At that rate, i would've matched & forced him to play in boston for another year. Then move him this offseason (signed).

-Ryan Johanssen
-Taylor Hall
-Shea Weber
-15th pick + (2) 2nds

Which option would you choose if you were moving out a dman?

 

[bp13]

He sold Hamilton on the cheap. Naysayers will point to Sweeney getting better picks than he would have had if there were an offer sheet, but that's bs. At that rate, i would've matched & forced him to play in boston for another year. Then move him this offseason (signed).

-Ryan Johanssen
-Taylor Hall
-Shea Weber
-15th pick + (2) 2nds

Which option would you choose if you were moving out a dman?

In fairness, all of those Dmen aside from Larsson were/are better than Hamilton. So while I agree he probably undersold him, Hamilton should have returned less than Subban or Jones did. But ultimately we see it the same way. Either Sweeney undersold him, or he underestimated the cost it would take to replace him. Either way he messed up and the team is worse for it.

 

[Era of Sanity]

Seidenberg to the Islanders, 1 year $1 million.

Was never of fan of eating contract for 4 years with that buyout, should have just kept him imo given that it is a bridge year anyway and we are probably waiting on prospects to develop to upgrade the d.

 

[Over the volcano]

Good for him - good for them

 

[Gee Wally]

Good for Seids.
I wish him well.

 

[PB37]

Look I'm not sure he's a franchise player but what makes you say he isn't ? Teams will cough up significant players for him in hopes he does become that player. Bruins have depth and can afford to make that trade. I listen to analysts hear opinions from experts.

Weren't you just calling Trouba a generational player the other day?

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Yes, he did help create it. Dougie Hamilton is absolutely better than every other defenseman on our team not named Chara or Krug. And do you debate that Hamilton's value at the time of his deal was roughly equivalent to Larssons when he was dealt? I think he was absolutely valued as a future #2/#3 in the NHL. You can disagree with that valuation and maybe time will prove you right, but that's where Boston should have pegged him at and that's the return they should have gotten.

So while Sweeney wasn't exactly handed a good defense, he traded one of the best 3 dmen who still had upside and was under control. So yes, he helped create the problem he faces today.

comparing Larsson to Dougie is totally unfair as Larsson didn't have an offer sheet threat looming. Sweeney's only options with Dougie were to trade him for a slightly better package than an offer sheet (1st, 2nd, 2nd vs 1st, 2nd, 3rd) or match and face the same problem a year later.

Blame the guy who got fired after leaving the Dougie situation unresolved until the last minute. Sweeney inherited a no-win situation with Dougie. IMO it's totally unfair to blame him for any of it really. I don't like all of Sweeney's moves but the Dougie move was not on him. That would be like blaming your spouse for paying taxes when you're trying to save money.