Bruins Off Season III

[Gee Wally]

Bruins Notebook: Young blueliners have chance

At the Bruins Foundation golf tournament yesterday, general manager Don Sweeney addressed that criticism and expressed hope at least one young defenseman will step up during training camp and demonstrate NHL readiness.

The candidates include junior products Brandon Carlo and Jeremy Lauzon, former Boston University star Matt Grzelcyk and Yale’s Rob O’Gara.

“I don’t think it’s unrealistic,†Sweeney said about the chance of a youngster making the team. “I don’t think we want to put all that pressure and expectation on any one individual.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/bruins/2016/09/bruins_notebook_young_blueliners_have_chance

 

[the negotiator]

We are stuck....or should I say the Front Office is stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place

Do nothing and watch our top players spending key years of their career without enough of a supporting cast for the team to be really competitive......and the fans are unhappy

Trade for a in short supply quality D and pay ( or likely over-pay) with a painful package of Pasta, #1draft choice and a high prospect ( Carlo or Heinen )...and the fans are unhappy.


Unless we find another GM in a Hamilton-type situation there isn't a good choice to be made...bad trades and drafts can happen quickly- their impact is felt for years.

 

[SPV]

I agree you give up Pastranak for Trouba, if the deal is there. You trade a potential top line winger for a potential top 2 defenseman every time I think.

I think we are stacked up front, and still think that Sweeney and company are waiting until camp to see what we have in our prospects, and will make a move depending on that.

 

[the negotiator]

Add a first and the Jets might be willing to have a serious conversation and ask the Bs to add a 2nd round sweetener

 

[Dr Quincy]

i've thought all along that money was never an issue for Trouba. He does not want to spend the next 5-8 years in Winnipeg period.

Sweeney needs to make Trouba a Bruin.

I'd offer 2017 1st + Zboril + C. Miller

Winnipeg will not get full value for Trouba if the reports are true.

You may have missed it, but there are reports that the reports of him wanting out aren't true.

When has a team trading a young good D never gotten full value?

(Insert Hamilton joke here)

 

[GloryDaze4877]

You may have missed it, but there are reports that the reports of him wanting out aren't true.

When has a team trading a young good D never gotten full value?

(Insert Hamilton joke here)

See post 377.

 

[ffh]

See post 377.

for what its worth. tweeted today from @nicholsonhockey

dreger: speculation that trouba doesn't like Winnipeg, doesn't want to stay in Winnipeg......"that's not true that's garbage"

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

You may have missed it, but there are reports that the reports of him wanting out aren't true.

When has a team trading a young good D never gotten full value?

(Insert Hamilton joke here)

How much smoke does one have to witness however before fire is the conclusion?

This rumor goes back to the middle of last season... I'd argue the potential for legitimacy.

As for value, don't think that Chevy will accept anything less.

Consider this however... if the Jets don't see Trouba as a top pairing defenceman, then how much do they really value him in a deal?

Colin Miller, Joe Morrow, a first and a second hedges their bets for this season (without busting their cap) and gives them future assets, or currency if you will for future acquisitions.

 

[Absurdity]

See post 377.

It would be great if the Bruins could trade for Lindholm or Trouba (I would prefer the former than the latter), but I don't think it is likely that either will be moved. I think someone like Fowler or Orlov would be within the realm of possibility. The thing is, since it's a seller's market, and the current state of the Bruins (having a core around the age of 30 while giving a shot to younger players to gain the experience necessary to make noise in their 2nd-3rd seasons in the NHL), is the steep price the Bruins will most likely have to pay as well as the addition of a top 4 defenseman benefit the Bruins in the short and long term more than keeping those assets? I wouldn't mind Fowler or Orlov on the Bruins, but if the prices are too high, the Bruins shouldn't mortgage some of the future for a mid-pairing defenseman. It might be the Bruins best interest to go in the direction Sweeney is saying on post 401 by Gee Wally. It's time to see how well the Bruins prospects have been developing and maybe 1 or a few will surprise and maybe make the team. If not, the Bruins still have Colin Miller on the team who can take a spot in the top 4. If the Bruins are still struggling on defense, the best time, in my opinion, to trade for a defenseman will be at this year's trade deadline where prices may be lower because of the upcoming expansion draft.

 

[Dr Quincy]

How much smoke does one have to witness however before fire is the conclusion?

This rumor goes back to the middle of last season... I'd argue the potential for legitimacy.

As for value, don't think that Chevy will accept anything less.

Consider this however... if the Jets don't see Trouba as a top pairing defenceman, then how much do they really value him in a deal?

Colin Miller, Joe Morrow, a first and a second hedges their bets for this season (without busting their cap) and gives them future assets, or currency if you will for future acquisitions.

The problem with this idea though is that you aren't just constructing a deal of pieces you don't mind moving that MIGHT added all together equal the worth of Trouba.

You are also trying to construct a package better than what others are offering. At this point what is Joe Morrow? A guy very likely to be put on waivers at some point this year. How much value did Jarred Tinordi have last year? That's about what he's worth.

Miller's value is more for sure, but your deal makes WPG worse now, trades away a very good asset and doesn't address a single one of their needs. You have to figure that if they are offering up Trouba, SOMEONE out there is going to give them something better than that.

For instance, if Detroit offers Pulkinen+Sproul+1st that still doesn't address any major needs, but IMO is a better offer.

We just saw a top winger in the league dealt for a good defensive dman who isn't great. Again.... someone will pony up if Trouba is on the block.

 

[finchster]

Consider this however... if the Jets don't see Trouba as a top pairing defenceman, then how much do they really value him in a deal?

Does it matter how much the Jets value Trouba?

I am sure the Flyers valued Rinaldo as much as a cheese sandwich, but some stupid GM offered a 3rd round pick for a guy the Flyers would've waived eventually.

Lesson here, your own valuation of a player should have very little to do with what you decide to trade for him. The market dictates how much a player is worth, your own valuation might be higher or lower than what you can really get.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Does it matter how much the Jets value Trouba?

I am sure the Flyers valued Rinaldo as much as a cheese sandwich, but some stupid GM offered a 3rd round pick for a guy the Flyers would've waived eventually.

Lesson here, your own valuation of a player should have very little to do with what you decide to trade for him. The market dictates how much a player is worth, your own valuation might be higher or lower than what you can really get.

Makes a big difference finchy.

Jets may prefer a deal where they immediately recoup the loss of the current player more than they would future currency.

 

[Gump Hasek]

How much smoke does one have to witness however before fire is the conclusion?

This rumor goes back to the middle of last season... I'd argue the potential for legitimacy.

That isn't accurate. All that dates back to the middle of last season is a single article by a local news reporter that essentially represented his speculation as to what certain players would be asking in their contract negotiations. His speculation about Byfuglien missed the mark by something like $15 million and exposed the article as simply a blind guess by the writer. Trouba's agent immediately denied that it was accurate BTW.

If he didn't want to play in Winnipeg, he wouldn't have said that he wants to play here in the exit interviews, and his agent wouldn't currently be negotiating a long-term deal with Winnipeg... but rather would be publicly seeking a trade.

 

[finchster]

Makes a big difference finchy.

Jets may prefer a deal where they immediately recoup the loss of the current player more than they would future currency.

I think I am quibbling over semantics with you.

When you say, "How much they value him in a deal." I thought you were discussing the Jet's internal value to of Trouba to the team and what they could/would let him go for. Value to mean means, "What can a player obtain for us in a trade."

However, if you talking about whether or not to trade Trouba for someone playing now vs futures, I would call that roster building/design/management. That would be what we SHOULD trade a player for.

Gotcha. MMB

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

The problem with this idea though is that you aren't just constructing a deal of pieces you don't mind moving that MIGHT added all together equal the worth of Trouba.

You are also trying to construct a package better than what others are offering. At this point what is Joe Morrow? A guy very likely to be put on waivers at some point this year. How much value did Jarred Tinordi have last year? That's about what he's worth.

Miller's value is more for sure, but your deal makes WPG worse now, trades away a very good asset and doesn't address a single one of their needs. You have to figure that if they are offering up Trouba, SOMEONE out there is going to give them something better than that.

For instance, if Detroit offers Pulkinen+Sproul+1st that still doesn't address any major needs, but IMO is a better offer.

We just saw a top winger in the league dealt for a good defensive dman who isn't great. Again.... someone will pony up if Trouba is on the block.

I'm not saying my offer gets it done. Ignore the specifics for a moment and consider rather the strategy. They will want to replace Trouba on the roster AND benefit in some other area. That's all I'm trying to accomplish.

Now consider a couple of things with your Red Wings offer. If Pulkinen is more or less what he's shown at an NHL level, our two offers are a wash. If he is what the Red Wings believe he can be... well they'd have to have the balls to make that offer in order to compete in the first place.

Yeah, Adam Larsson got traded for Taylor Hall. Good for the Devils. But that no more sets the market for a RH defenceman than getting Loui Eriksson and a sack full of crap did for a player like Tyler Seguin.

It just has to make sense for the Jets. It has to
A) replace Trouba on their current roster
B) not break their bank
and
C) Offer significant value aside

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

That isn't accurate. All that dates back to the middle of last season is a single article by a local news reporter that essentially represented his speculation as to what certain players would be asking in their contract negotiations. His speculation about Byfuglien missed the mark by something like $15 million and exposed the article as simply a blind guess by the writer. Trouba's agent immediately denied that it was accurate BTW.

If he didn't want to play in Winnipeg, he wouldn't have said that he wants to play here in the exit interviews, and his agent wouldn't currently be negotiating a long-term deal with Winnipeg... but rather would be publicly seeking a trade.

I'm sorry, but what exactly is inaccurate?

The fact that something was reported in the middle of last season? Nope. That happened.

The fact that the contract is in dispute and by all reports has been tumultuous? Nope. That's what is happening.

Listen, I love the Jets. I love their fans. I love how they've built their team. I appreciate your contributions to this thread on the subject. I'm not trying to start an argument or disrespect anyone.

But if you think that everything is sunshine, lollipops and/or rainbows right now between the two sides, you need to take the goggles off, man. There is something up and it will take mending to fix it. That equals money or a trade.

 

[Gump Hasek]

I'm sorry, but what exactly is inaccurate?

The fact that something was reported in the middle of last season? Nope. That happened.

You claimed there was a rumor about him wanting out as early as the middle of last season. No, there was an article written by a local scribe that speculated as to what certain Jets would be asking for in contract negotiations; nothing at all about him wanting out, aside from some wishful thinking online done by some fans of teams lacking in D, and also some baseless speculation by scribes with zero attachment to the situation... such as Haggs & Murphy (for example).

There are no reports that Trouba has ever been offered in trade to anyone. Here is an interview with Paul Maurice from a few days ago; he talks about his intent to bump Trouba's time-on-ice up to 24 or 25 minutes per game this coming season...
http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-12...ope-a-once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity-1.564149

Those aren't the words of a coach that is expecting a key piece of his D core to be traded. That is because the Jets clearly intend to sign and keep him.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

You claimed there was a rumor about him wanting out as early as the middle of last season. No, there was an article written by a local scribe that speculated as to what certain Jets would be asking for in contract negotiations; nothing at all about him wanting out, aside from some wishful thinking online done by some fans of teams lacking in D, and also some baseless speculation by scribes with zero attachment to the situation... such as Haggs & Murphy (for example).

There are no reports that Trouba has ever been offered in trade to anyone. Here is an interview with Paul Maurice from a few days ago; he talks about his intent to bump Trouba's time-on-ice up to 24 or 25 minutes per game this coming season...
http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-12...ope-a-once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity-1.564149

Those aren't the words of a coach that is expecting a key piece of his D core to be traded. That is because the Jets clearly intend to sign and keep him.

Those goggles must fit like a glove. You can't even tell you're wearing them.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Those goggles must fit like a glove. You can't even tell you're wearing them.

The counter to that could equally be applied to you.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

The counter to that could equally be applied to you.

Sweet comeback. I know you are but what am I?

Nobody is stopping you from believing in your team. Hell, I believe in your team. But there are three possible scenarios here and only one involves Trouba in Winnipeg long-term.

1) he gets dealt
2) he signs a bridge contract... then he's dealt quicker than you can say PK Subban
3) he gets PAID

We'll see how this pans out and then you can come back and tell me how wrong I was.

 

[Mpasta]

You claimed there was a rumor about him wanting out as early as the middle of last season. No, there was an article written by a local scribe that speculated as to what certain Jets would be asking for in contract negotiations; nothing at all about him wanting out, aside from some wishful thinking online done by some fans of teams lacking in D, and also some baseless speculation by scribes with zero attachment to the situation... such as Haggs & Murphy (for example).

There are no reports that Trouba has ever been offered in trade to anyone. Here is an interview with Paul Maurice from a few days ago; he talks about his intent to bump Trouba's time-on-ice up to 24 or 25 minutes per game this coming season...
http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-12...ope-a-once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity-1.564149

Those aren't the words of a coach that is expecting a key piece of his D core to be traded. That is because the Jets clearly intend to sign and keep him.

Everything you're saying is right but it's not what Bruins fans want to hear so we aren't going to acknowledge it.

 

[Fopppa]

You claimed there was a rumor about him wanting out as early as the middle of last season. No, there was an article written by a local scribe that speculated as to what certain Jets would be asking for in contract negotiations; nothing at all about him wanting out, aside from some wishful thinking online done by some fans of teams lacking in D, and also some baseless speculation by scribes with zero attachment to the situation... such as Haggs & Murphy (for example).

There are no reports that Trouba has ever been offered in trade to anyone. Here is an interview with Paul Maurice from a few days ago; he talks about his intent to bump Trouba's time-on-ice up to 24 or 25 minutes per game this coming season...
http://www.tsn.ca/radio/winnipeg-12...ope-a-once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity-1.564149

Those aren't the words of a coach that is expecting a key piece of his D core to be traded. That is because the Jets clearly intend to sign and keep him.

Not trying to rain on your parade here, but a lot (if not all) of this smells like politics. Saying the right things, not rocking the boat, not causing alarm. These things you bring up from the agent and from Maurice are also the kind of things they'd say in public just because that's what you do. Not saying it's going to end this way or that, but I'd say there's abolutely nothing in those quotes that cements Trouba as a Jet.

Maurice or Chevy wouldn't outright say that Trouba, a significant asset to the Jets, is as good as gone, because that would likely lower his value and cause unrest in the team and among fans. They paint a rosy picture while the process (contract negotiations and/or trade discussions) is ongoing which is a win-win since there is still a chance of him re-signing. If that happens, they haven't (publicly) burnt any bridges and can keep rolling, and if they deal him for a good return then they do that. All we can do is wait and see although I have a hard time seeing what the B's could offer up to entice the Jets aside from Pastrnak.

 

[SpeedyLazaro]

So they aren't going to add a single defenseman this offseason?

really?

 

[wandk128]

Is the Matt Lindblad they just named as a pro scout the same one that almost made the team out of camp a few years ago? If so, was/ is there a reason for retiring so young?

 

[SpitfireIX]

How dare you go against the norm!!

Ya this is the only place in the world where people thinking Sweeney made a good move on the Hamilton trade is the norm.