Value of: Brown/Kapanen for Kylington/Andersson

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
You would be hard pressed to find a non Leafs fan who would trade the first group for the second. And somehow the first group doesn't even include Gillies, Mangiapane or Hickey who are quite easily all better prospects than the second group. Or McDonald/Poirier/Parsons/Kulak who all beat out most of the second group.

But believe what you want to believe.

Point is, Brown/Kapanen do not get you Kylington nor Andersson.

Yeah, but that point is wrong, so.... Also, make a poll.. I bet you it's a hell of a lot closer than you think it is.

Kapanen is one of the youngest players in the AHL, played behind one of the deepest teams in the league and still had a good year. Brown has produced at every level he has played in, his big season in Erie (I seen you saying this earlier) most of his minutes actually were played with Gaunce (after the Gaunce trade) and Fox and not with McDavid, has produced 0.82 PPG in the AHL at the ages of 20 and 21, and I would put a good penny on Brown being a regular NHL player this year. Zero chance I trade him for either of those defenseman.

Kylington and Andersson are comparable prospects to Dermott and Nielsen, both put up similar numbers in their respective leagues. Personally I opt for the flames duo, but it's close.

We don't have a similar goalie prospect to Gillies, that's a clear win for Calgary. Mangiapane I would say is similar in quality to a prospect of ours like Timashov or Brooks, and the list goes on with your other dime a dozen prospects.
 
Last edited:
Also I just read through Brown's thread in the prospect forum and it was fun.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah, but that point is wrong, so.... Also, make a poll.. I bet you it's a hell of a lot closer than you think it is.

Prospect Polls. Becuase those totally won't favor the prospects playing in the most exposed city /
province for hockey in the world.

Brown has produced 0.82 PPG in the AHL at the ages of 20 and 21, and I would put a good penny on Brown being a regular NHL player this year.

So basically... Brown is a worse prospect than Markus Granlund (0.86 PPG in AHL at 20/21, while being a two-way centre with better goal scoring)... who we traded for Hunter Shinkaruk to upgrade. Yet Brown is a better prospect than Hunter Shinkaruk.

I love it.

and the list goes on with your other dime a dozen prospects.

Dermott is dime-a-dozen. He's basically an undersized Kulak. Yet you seem to think he's comparable to an elite talent like Kylington. If that doesn't speak to how skewed your perspective is, I don't know what does.

Like I said, believe what you want to believe. All I care about is who will actually become quality NHLers not who will win the Calder Cup and then make the 30th place NHL team's roster by default.
 
Last edited:
If they have prospects as good as Kylington and Andersson then why are they trying to trade for them? The whole idea of this thread is invalid if that's the case.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If they have comparable D prospects why are they looking to trade Brown?

The Leafs aren't, he'll be slotting into the Leafs top-9 this season. OP was and took interest in the Flames D prospects, most Leafs fans in this thread didn't seem to excited by the idea.

You know who else drafted 2 dmen in the top 65 in 2015 and they did really well in their post draft season? The Leafs in Travis Dermott and Andrew Nielsen. Nielsen scored 70 points in the WHL sandwiched in between Provorov and Sanheim for the D scoring lead. Dermott made and was a regular for Team Canada at the WJ's. They'll both be in the AHL this year and we'll see how much better Andersson and Kylington are throughout the season.

There are others, but there are two direct comparables.
 
It's not a bad premise for a thread. Sure the Leafs have Dermott and Nielsen, and to a certain extent Carrick and Valiev ahead of them, but we have far more forward and more specifically winger prospects.

I just really like Brown and wouldn't trade him short of a deal that would never come along.

I firmly believe the Leafs will trade for D, and I could see a deal like this happening, but I think they'll wait until a deal comes along where they can trade some higher end pieces for a higher end guy who wasn't just drafted a year earlier. Maybe a deal like Pokka for Leddy, or maybe they end up doing a Hall for Larsson or Johansen for Jones type of deal. Or maybe they'll just suck next year and get lucky to get Liljegrin, or maybe Dermott or Nielsen becomes the next 2rd or 3rd round pick to become a stud. It's really anyones guess at this point, but I think this thread had a solid premise just due to the lopsided nature of our pool, it's like 15 wingers, 5 D
 
Haha, easily. The team that this post wants to send Brown to, Calgary. Depending on how you classify a prospect:

Tkachuk
Gillies
Jankowski
Mangiapane
Kylington
Andersson
Poirier
Parsons
MacDonald
Pollock

Hickey, Kulak, Fox and Dube are all guys I would put in contention with Brown as well and that's not to mention some darkhorse picks that have some definite potential in guys like Tuulola, Phillips and others. To be honest, I'd almost put all of their 2016 picks ahead of Brown.

And Toronto fans are the ones overrating their prospects? :laugh:
 
Well, Toronto fans shoving all of your 'future top 6 f and top 4 d' prospects down the boards throat and people take exception at one Calgary fan. Calgary fans like their prospects more than yours, news at 5.

But maybe Toronto is in more of a spot to be doing that? Toronto has the consensus best prospect pool in the league and likely the deepest prospect pool in the league.

Fans like their star prospects!!!...more news at 6.

Edit: I'd love to see a poll that looks at prospect depth. So after eliminating the top 3/4 prospects from each team. Personally Toronto would destroy Calgary.
 
But maybe Toronto is in more of a spot to be doing that? Toronto has the consensus best prospect pool in the league and likely the deepest prospect pool in the league.

Fans like their star prospects!!!...more news at 6.

Edit: I'd love to see a poll that looks at prospect depth. So after eliminating the top 3/4 prospects from each team. Personally Toronto would destroy Calgary.

Certainly. Considering Calgary's top 3 prospects are already playing significant minutes in the NHL; two are already 60+ point players in fact. :laugh:

People who are argue prospect depth are homers, no matter how you cut it. The rule of thumb in the NHL has always been look at your favourite 4/5 prospects, figure out which 1 will likely be the NHLer.

It's like this board is constantly stuck in a groundhogs day loop; thinking that depth prospects are somehow better than others. Truth is, take Brown, take Kapanen, take Dermott, Nielson and let's say Bracco, and know honestly that one maybe two will ever amount to an NHL player.

Outside of Detroit, they're the outlier in this entire debate, as they produce not only talent, but stars in their late rounds.

Seriously. Go look at the Leafs draft picks from 2004-2011, I can guarantee there was excitement for a number of these kids. And the claims they were superior in some way to others. Years even up. For every draft that brought 4 NHL talents, 2 years brought ghost towns. Most years you get 1 NHLer, if lucky two.
 
I can't see Calgary making that trade as much as depth on the wing is a problem for us in the NHL I like Tkachuk and Shinkaruk to both make it (maybe not as impact players this season) and then one of Poirier, Mangiapane, Klimchuk, turning out as a top 9 winger would be a bonus.

On Defense we have a problem where we can't get a 4th core Dman this year because of the expansion draft and Wideman's caphit. So we're hoping to have a impact Dman develop inside the system so that we dont need to go out and find one next off-season Kylington, Andersson, Kulak, and Hickey all show high ceilings but none have a very stable floor so best to hold onto all of them until we think we have at least 1 man from that group able to log NHL minutes.

I'll also point out that neither Kylington or Andersson would be considered to have 2 years of professional hockey while Brown does have a year at 20 years old and another at 21 in the AHL and is not exempt from the expansion draft.
(Kapanen should also be exempt)
This isn't likely important to most teams but Calgary isn't giving up much value during the Vegas Draft Kevin is likely the best player to be exposed and with the number of other #4 Dmen on the table Vegas will have better options so from Calgary they'll either be picking to fill the Cap requirement or picking a non-exempt prospect like Brown.
 
Last edited:
Certainly. Considering Calgary's top 3 prospects are already playing significant minutes in the NHL; two are already 60+ point players in fact. :laugh:

People who are argue prospect depth are homers, no matter how you cut it. The rule of thumb in the NHL has always been look at your favourite 4/5 prospects, figure out which 1 will likely be the NHLer.

It's like this board is constantly stuck in a groundhogs day loop; thinking that depth prospects are somehow better than others. Truth is, take Brown, take Kapanen, take Dermott, Nielson and let's say Bracco, and know honestly that one maybe two will ever amount to an NHL player.

Outside of Detroit, they're the outlier in this entire debate, as they produce not only talent, but stars in their late rounds.

Seriously. Go look at the Leafs draft picks from 2004-2011, I can guarantee there was excitement for a number of these kids. And the claims they were superior in some way to others. Years even up. For every draft that brought 4 NHL talents, 2 years brought ghost towns. Most years you get 1 NHLer, if lucky two.
Monohan and Gaudreau are not prospects. Not a hard concept to grasp man.
 
Certainly. Considering Calgary's top 3 prospects are already playing significant minutes in the NHL; two are already 60+ point players in fact. :laugh:

People who are argue prospect depth are homers, no matter how you cut it. The rule of thumb in the NHL has always been look at your favourite 4/5 prospects, figure out which 1 will likely be the NHLer.

It's like this board is constantly stuck in a groundhogs day loop; thinking that depth prospects are somehow better than others. Truth is, take Brown, take Kapanen, take Dermott, Nielson and let's say Bracco, and know honestly that one maybe two will ever amount to an NHL player.

Outside of Detroit, they're the outlier in this entire debate, as they produce not only talent, but stars in their late rounds.

Seriously. Go look at the Leafs draft picks from 2004-2011, I can guarantee there was excitement for a number of these kids. And the claims they were superior in some way to others. Years even up. For every draft that brought 4 NHL talents, 2 years brought ghost towns. Most years you get 1 NHLer, if lucky two.

so i did the research just because i was curious

2004: ghost town, the only player that played any nhl games was pogge and we know how he turned out.

2005: tuuka rask and anton stralman both solid careers

2006: tlusty, kulemin, reimer, holzer, stalberg, komarov. all 6 made it to the nhl for 50 plus games and counting

2007: matt frattin, carl gunnarsson 135 and 365 games played respectively

2008: luke schenn, jimmy hayes, greg pateryn, andrew mcwilliams

2009: nazem kadri, jerry d'amigo, jesse blacker, jamie devane

2010: greg mckegg, petter granberg, sam carrick. admittedly none have significant mins in the nhl but that might change now that they are all on different nhl teams.

2011: stuart percy, josh leivo, david broll, garret sparks.

all these guys were good enough to play at least an nhl game, doesn't mean they all turned out obviously. with the exception of the 2004 draft, there was at least one nhl regular drafted in each year until 2010 and the 2011 draft may still produce regulars in leivo and sparks. the other thought that comes to mind is most of these guys panned out once they left the leafs lol
 
But maybe Toronto is in more of a spot to be doing that? Toronto has the consensus best prospect pool in the league and likely the deepest prospect pool in the league.

:laugh:

Toronto has the best prospect pool because they sent Nylander to the AHL, Marner back to Junior, and won a lottery (that they tanked for). These were highly touted top ten picks with nice stats. No argument from anyone they are a nice group.

Take out Tkachuk from Calgary's pool, and Toronto's pool is still by far inferior to Calgary's.

A guy like Nielsen might have a comparable projection to a guy like Andersson, yet is a left shot D when right shot D are more highly valued in the NHL.

A guy like Dermott's ceiling is not close to Kylington's ceiling. A guy like Kulak's ceiling and floor is currently higher than Dermott's ceiling or floor. You write off Brandon Hickey as a dime-a-dozen prospect because stats are dime-a-dozen, but are unaware that his package of size, skating, and defensive ability trend towards a shut down guy like Gardiner - who BTW actually had a similar dev curve thus far, maybe better offense but within deviations.

Maybe Brown does turn out better than Shinkaruk/Mangiapane, but a betting man would take the players who score more actual goals at every level/age and are superior skaters with more time to develop all-around before it's Hit-The-Road-Jack. Nothing he's done is anything Flames fans haven't seen very recently from prospects like Max Reinhart and Markus Granlund. A short little NHL stint with inflated on-ice SH% doesn't mean he's dominating the NHL. Even if Brown is a sure 3rd liner, even 2nd liner, what does that really mean? A 12 goal, 25 assist winger who kills some penalties? You can get vets like that on PTO. Heck we just let an RFA like that go as a cap casualty and no one is batting an eye. Shinkaruk is the guy with the high-end skillset where he could legitimately be an NHL goal producer (25+).

You might think Kapanen is a highly valued piece teams are drooling over, but every team has one of him too. And honestly even though I badly want right handed shot winger prospects for the Flames who have almost none, Poirier's package of explosive first step, heavy build, and agitator style is more rare and unique. Even though I am terms with the fact that Poirier will have been a successful pick if he becomes a 3rd liner, his ceiling still exceeds Kapanen. Kapanen was 19 his rookie year? So was Poirier, for most of his. Kapanen was one of the youngest AHLers? Kylington was THE youngest AHLer. Kapanen scored a World Junior winner? Laine Aho Rantanen Juolevi and Puljujarvi were the only reason he got the chance.

It goes on. What makes Bracco a better prospect than Matthew Philips? Everybody has one of those. We however have actually had some success with "those". Timoshov? Another guy who got plenty of assists but very few actual goals, in fact we have a training camp invite who fits the exact same bill in Brayden Burke, I'd love to hear what Timoshov has over Burke. Guys like this just hit a wall at the next level. The best shot a Timoshov has to make the NHL is to be the next Paul Byron. As Paul Byron's biggest fan on HFBoards I can assure you, no one is actually hoping their prospect ends up the next Paul Byron.

And that's just skaters. There are maybe two or three teams that would not trade their top 3 goaltenders for our top 3 goaltenders, and they are the teams with guys like Demko and Hellebuyck in their pools. Gillies and Parsons both stonewalled their teams to championships and McDonald must be doing something right to have been the #2 on Team Canada, albeit in a throwaway season where he was recovering from a knee injury and not up to his usual level until February or so. Your best goalie prospect is Woll, who would be our fourth best goalie prospect.

You might think that all the pointz the Marlies put up are indicative of players who will be productive in the NHL but let's face it. Pointz in the AHL can't be compared across divisions, teams play the same seven or eight teams over and over and over again and there is no attempt at resembling parity.

My team does not have the best prospect pool in the NHL. Our 2014 first rounder is no longer a prospect. Our 2015 first rounder, which a lot of GM hints pointed to would-have-been Kyle Connor, was traded for an NHLer. We didn't win a draft lotto even once in our franchise history never mind twice. We've never drafted top 3. Matthews, Marner, and Nylander blow Tkachuk, Jankowski, and Kylington away. Doesn't mean your prospect depth is the best in the league.
 
Monohan and Gaudreau are not prospects. Not a hard concept to grasp man.

Monahan.

Also, if these guys were not in the NHL they'd be age appropriate for the term prospect.

What I'm saying, is the guys who are under 22 for Calgary are already significant players for them in the NHL. Not a difficult concept to understand, man.
 
:laugh:

Toronto has the best prospect pool because they sent Nylander to the AHL, Marner back to Junior, and won a lottery (that they tanked for). These were highly touted top ten picks with nice stats. No argument from anyone they are a nice group.

Take out Tkachuk from Calgary's pool, and Toronto's pool is still by far inferior to Calgary's.

A guy like Nielsen might have a comparable projection to a guy like Andersson, yet is a left shot D when right shot D are more highly valued in the NHL.

A guy like Dermott's ceiling is not close to Kylington's ceiling. A guy like Kulak's ceiling and floor is currently higher than Dermott's ceiling or floor. You write off Brandon Hickey as a dime-a-dozen prospect because stats are dime-a-dozen, but are unaware that his package of size, skating, and defensive ability trend towards a shut down guy like Gardiner - who BTW actually had a similar dev curve thus far, maybe better offense but within deviations.

Maybe Brown does turn out better than Shinkaruk/Mangiapane, but a betting man would take the players who score more actual goals at every level/age and are superior skaters with more time to develop all-around before it's Hit-The-Road-Jack. Nothing he's done is anything Flames fans haven't seen very recently from prospects like Max Reinhart and Markus Granlund. A short little NHL stint with inflated on-ice SH% doesn't mean he's dominating the NHL. Even if Brown is a sure 3rd liner, even 2nd liner, what does that really mean? A 12 goal, 25 assist winger who kills some penalties? You can get vets like that on PTO. Heck we just let an RFA like that go as a cap casualty and no one is batting an eye. Shinkaruk is the guy with the high-end skillset where he could legitimately be an NHL goal producer (25+).

You might think Kapanen is a highly valued piece teams are drooling over, but every team has one of him too. And honestly even though I badly want right handed shot winger prospects for the Flames who have almost none, Poirier's package of explosive first step, heavy build, and agitator style is more rare and unique. Even though I am terms with the fact that Poirier will have been a successful pick if he becomes a 3rd liner, his ceiling still exceeds Kapanen. Kapanen was 19 his rookie year? So was Poirier, for most of his. Kapanen was one of the youngest AHLers? Kylington was THE youngest AHLer. Kapanen scored a World Junior winner? Laine Aho Rantanen Juolevi and Puljujarvi were the only reason he got the chance.

It goes on. What makes Bracco a better prospect than Matthew Philips? Everybody has one of those. We however have actually had some success with "those". Timoshov? Another guy who got plenty of assists but very few actual goals, in fact we have a training camp invite who fits the exact same bill in Brayden Burke, I'd love to hear what Timoshov has over Burke. Guys like this just hit a wall at the next level. The best shot a Timoshov has to make the NHL is to be the next Paul Byron. As Paul Byron's biggest fan on HFBoards I can assure you, no one is actually hoping their prospect ends up the next Paul Byron.

And that's just skaters. There are maybe two or three teams that would not trade their top 3 goaltenders for our top 3 goaltenders, and they are the teams with guys like Demko and Hellebuyck in their pools. Gillies and Parsons both stonewalled their teams to championships and McDonald must be doing something right to have been the #2 on Team Canada, albeit in a throwaway season where he was recovering from a knee injury and not up to his usual level until February or so. Your best goalie prospect is Woll, who would be our fourth best goalie prospect.

You might think that all the pointz the Marlies put up are indicative of players who will be productive in the NHL but let's face it. Pointz in the AHL can't be compared across divisions, teams play the same seven or eight teams over and over and over again and there is no attempt at resembling parity.

My team does not have the best prospect pool in the NHL. Our 2014 first rounder is no longer a prospect. Our 2015 first rounder, which a lot of GM hints pointed to would-have-been Kyle Connor, was traded for an NHLer. We didn't win a draft lotto even once in our franchise history never mind twice. We've never drafted top 3. Matthews, Marner, and Nylander blow Tkachuk, Jankowski, and Kylington away. Doesn't mean your prospect depth is the best in the league.

This is contradicting, and you are being your usual self, over rating the flames prospects to no end.
 
You can keep your Connor Brown and hope he pans out. But no one is envious of him, or Kapanen, or Timoshov, or Dermott, etc. They are a very normal group of B prospects. Everyone has them, few of them have them playing right at home.

I'd take the Sharks prospect depth over Leafs too, BTW.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You can keep your Connor Brown and hope he pans out. But no one is envious of him, or Kapanen, or Timoshov, or Dermott, etc. They are a very normal group of B prospects. Everyone has them, few of them have them playing right at home.

I'd take the Sharks prospect depth over Leafs too, BTW.

I jumped in here late, but why are we not allowed to include our best prospects when discussing our prospect pool?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Connor Brown wouldn't be your tenth best prospect, he'd be in your top five just like he is with the Leafs. You obviously don't know much about the kid, take some time to watch him in the NHL this year and educate yourself.

I think after our big 3 and Tkachuk, we have a similar prospect pool. Thats a very fair thing to say, and you're acting like the Flames depth is way deeper with quality than the Leafs, which just isn't the case. I'm done debating this with you though, after seeing your list with Kapanen as a 4th tier prospect for you guys (lol!!!) it's very clear where your head is at.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So you want me to base my opinions on an online poll of leafs fans? Let's face it at least 30-40% of HF are leafs fans. I'd prefer to base my opinions on watching them and scouting reports.

Do you even know the definition of 'opinion'? Somehow, I don't think you do.
 
LOL at flames fans thinking brown wouldnt crack your top 10.
4th best prospect in the TOP prospect group in the league. Brown is a top 5 on ANY team in the league.

Did I see a guy say he wouldnt trade mark bustkowski for 5 connor browns? a decent senior year in college after an average first 3 years and now he is a top prospect again? haha
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad