Value of: Brown/Kapanen for Kylington/Andersson

[4thline]

I am not sure, but my reaction to pretty much all of them:

Kylington in particular should be pretty much untouchable unless a cost-controlled NHL star player or Boeser-type RW prospect is in the return. All his perceived weaknesses turned out to be overblown and easily fixed and he had a fine draft+1 year in the AHL for us, and with his incredible skating has a lot of margin for error anyways. Other knowledgeable Flames fans like Caged Great have noted that he is now as a 19YO where Brodie was as a ~22YO. Why we would let him go for anything short of a glaring long term team need is baffling.

Fantastic pick, kind of reminds me of Nylander in that respect.

 

[DJJones]

I am not sure, but my reaction to pretty much all of them:

Kylington in particular should be pretty much untouchable unless a cost-controlled NHL star player or Boeser-type RW prospect is in the return. All his perceived weaknesses turned out to be overblown and easily fixed and he had a fine draft+1 year in the AHL for us, and with his incredible skating has a lot of margin for error anyways. Other knowledgeable Flames fans like Caged Great have noted that he is now as a 19YO where Brodie was as a ~22YO. Why we would let him go for anything short of a glaring long term team need is baffling.

Also people forget that he played on three different teams in his draft year. Completely understandable that he never got into a groove.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Haha, easily. The team that this post wants to send Brown to, Calgary. Depending on how you classify a prospect:

Tkachuk
Gillies
Jankowski
Mangiapane
Kylington
Andersson
Poirier
Parsons
MacDonald
Pollock

Hickey, Kulak, Fox and Dube are all guys I would put in contention with Brown as well and that's not to mention some darkhorse picks that have some definite potential in guys like Tuulola, Phillips and others. To be honest, I'd almost put all of their 2016 picks ahead of Brown.

Mangiapane is basically where Brown was 2 years ago. 6th round pick. Mangiapane put up 2 100+ seasons post draft, Brown put up a 128 point season in his last season.

Brown then went to the AHL and was the AHL rookie leading scorer, followed that up with 29 in 34 after coming back from an ankle injury mid-season, then put up 6 in 7 NHL games.

Similar results but Brown is further ahead in his development so putting Mangiapane at 4 in your list and saying Brown wouldn't even come in at 10 is clearly a homer post.

Not saying anything about your prospect pool,because it looks really good as well, but I consider Brown clearly our #4 prospect in what is a really deep pool as well.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Mangiapane is basically where Brown was 2 years ago. 6th round pick. Mangiapane put up 2 100+ seasons post draft, Brown put up a 128 point season in his last season.

You neglect to mention Mangiapane's 106 in 59 translates to 122 in 68.

Or that Brown was playing with Connor McDavid.

Or that Mangiapanehad 61 goals in the 74 OHL games he played in his final OHL season (which were all before he turned 20), Brown had 53 in 82 (and he turned 20 in January that season) - Eatbread scoring 27.5% more goals. Prospects that can score goals are inherently more valuable than playmaking prospects.

Either way, even if we could agree that due to his AHL experience, Brown and Eatbread are equals, that would still put Brown at around our T10th best prospect.

Tier I
Jankowski
Kylington
Tkachuk
----------
Tier II
Andersson
Gillies
Shinkaruk
McDonald
Hickey
-----------
Tier III
Kulak
Mangiapane/Brown
Ollas-Mattsson
----------
Tier IV
Poirier/Kapanen
Parsons

Why we're trading a Tier I prospect / Tier II prospect for guys that would be Tier III and Tier IV prospects is what I find crazy. But to each his own. But FWIW I would offer Shinkaruk for Brown since we need right-shot prospects.

 

[Advanced stats]

You neglect to mention Mangiapane's 106 in 59 translates to 122 in 68.

Or that Brown was playing with Connor McDavid.

Or that Mangiapanehad 61 goals in the 74 OHL games he played in his final OHL season, Brown had 53 in 82 - Eatbread scoring 27% more goals. Prospects that can score goals are inherently more valuable than playmaking prospects.

Either way, even if we could agree that due to his AHL experience, Brown and Eatbread are equals, that would still put Brown at around our 8th best prospect.

Tier I
Jankowski
Kylington
Tkachuk
----------
Tier II
Andersson
Gillies
Shinkaruk
McDonald
Hickey
-----------
Tier III
Kulak
Mangiapane/Brown
Ollas-Mattsson
----------
Tier IV
Poirier/Kapanen
Parsons

Why we're trading a Tier I prospect / Tier II prospect for guys that would be Tier III and Tier IV prospects is what I find crazy. But to each his own. But FWIW I would offer Shinkaruk for Brown since we need right-shot prospects.

Brown and Kapanen would both be tier 2 prospects without a doubt. I understand if you don't want to make the trade, but you can't go selling them short.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Brown and Kapanen would both be tier 2 prospects without a doubt. I understand if you don't want to make the trade, but you can't go selling them short.

Kapanen is not a better prospect than Poirier nor is Brown a better prospect than Mangiapane.

 

[Volica]

Flames fan; I say pass.
Connor Brown has some nice numbers; but again it's an undersized winger who has had the benefit of playing with some pretty major prospects over the last 3 years (McDavid and Willie). Great 6th rounder for the Leafs though.

Kapanen, again, not really high on.

Rasmus and Kylington are prospects I'm really up on. Considering Rasmus was playing at that high of a level with a 1970s fitness regiment... I'm excited what he can do, he can takeover a game. Watching him play at this years Flames scrimmage, he looked like a Keithesque defender. Polished and smooth in his own end and ready to jump in on the other. Kylington I'm super high on too; he did very well in the AHL as an 18 year old, cannot complain. The coaches gushed about him, and next year I think will be his coming out party. I believe one of the two will be an anchor on the Calgary blue line by 2018-2019.

Also, lol OKG with Janko as the pinnacle of of tier one. You do you baby.

 

[Big Easy]

Kapanen is not a better prospect than Poirier nor is Brown a better prospect than Mangiapane.

Poirer: 29 pts in 60 Games last season for Stockton. What am I missing?

 

[Mr Hockey*]

I would move brown for Kylington. I will hold on to Kappi for now, too much possible upside.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Poirer: 29 pts in 60 Games last season for Stockton. What am I missing?

You aren't actually comparing tight-checking Pacific Division scoring to wide open North Division scoring are you?

But rather than argue with you, we can actually comapre them at the same age in the same division:

Poirier @ 19/20 in North Division - 42 pts in 55 games (0.764 PPG)
Kapanen @ 19 in North Division - 25 points in 44 games (0.568 PPG)

So uh.. yeah. Kapanen in his second season would have to increase his production by 0.2 PPG just to match Poirier's rookie season in that division.

Oh and BTW if you think to argue Poirier "regressed" this year that means you didn't watch him play. He was much improved this year with simply lower shooting percentages against a bunch of California teams stacked with AHL vets. Poirier didn't fall in my rankings, he's right about where he was a year ago after that rookie season.

 

[DJJones]

You aren't actually comparing tight-checking Pacific Division scoring to wide open North Division scoring are you?

But rather than argue with you, we can actually comapre them at the same age in the same division:

Poirier @ 19/20 in North Division - 42 pts in 55 games (0.764 PPG)
Kapanen @ 19 in North Division - 25 points in 44 games (0.568 PPG)

So uh.. yeah.

Ya Poirier got **** on when he scored that many points because he wasn't playing defense. We know he can score. The coach praised him this year for his defense. Hopefully he can find a happy medium in playing style and become a solid middle six guy.

Poirier - Backlund - Frolik would be a great third line.

 

[Atomos2]

Not to compare they players but Justin Schultz ripped the AHL a new one . He also look good in a shorten year ( Lock out ) His tires needs plenty of air .

Point is just hope for the best but don't count on all prospects to become good players , some will bust

Brown is a quality prospect whose had to get to where he is through hard work, determination and proving people wrong. In his rookie AHL season, he played on a team that was the lowest scoring team until the end of December, and he was still the leading rookie scorer. Schultz was a spoiled, college free agent defenceman signing who had his pick of teams and decided to join the young high offense no defense Oilers. He went to the AHL and right away was playing with Hall, Eberle and RNH who already had NHL experience. It's not the same.

 

[Advanced stats]

Kapanen is not a better prospect than Poirier nor is Brown a better prospect than Mangiapane.

But Kapanen and Brown are both better than your average goalie, who has trouble posting anything over a .900 sv % in Junior(McDonald) and your long shot defenseman.(Hickey)

Brown has also outscored Shinkaruk at every single level all throughout their careers, and Kapanen outscored him as an AHL rookie, while Kapanen was a year younger.

Seems to me they fit right in with your 2nd tier, which in all honesty... Seems very very underwhelming.

 

[Atomos2]

You neglect to mention Mangiapane's 106 in 59 translates to 122 in 68.

Or that Brown was playing with Connor McDavid.

Or that Mangiapanehad 61 goals in the 74 OHL games he played in his final OHL season (which were all before he turned 20), Brown had 53 in 82 (and he turned 20 in January that season) - Eatbread scoring 27.5% more goals. Prospects that can score goals are inherently more valuable than playmaking prospects.

Either way, even if we could agree that due to his AHL experience, Brown and Eatbread are equals, that would still put Brown at around our T10th best prospect.

Tier I
Jankowski
Kylington
Tkachuk
----------
Tier II
Andersson
Gillies
Shinkaruk
McDonald
Hickey
-----------
Tier III
Kulak
Mangiapane/Brown
Ollas-Mattsson
----------
Tier IV
Poirier/Kapanen
Parsons

Why we're trading a Tier I prospect / Tier II prospect for guys that would be Tier III and Tier IV prospects is what I find crazy. But to each his own. But FWIW I would offer Shinkaruk for Brown since we need right-shot prospects.

Oh I'm sorry, you guys still have Jankowski? And he's a tier 1 prospect better than Brown eh? Guess Feaster's still making his mark on here

 

[DJJones]

Oh I'm sorry, you guys still have Jankowski? And he's a tier 1 prospect better than Brown eh? Guess Feaster's still making his mark on here.

Feaster actually made some fantastic draft picks.

Tkachuk has a higher ceiling than Janko but I think Janko will make the team this year and Tkachuk will be sent down after 9 games. Take from that what you will.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Kapanen is not a better prospect than Poirier nor is Brown a better prospect than Mangiapane.

Oh I'm sorry, you guys still have Jankowski? And he's a tier 1 prospect better than Brown eh? Guess Feaster's still making his mark on here

Because reasons.

The Jankowski in a tier one of a prospect pool kills me.

 

[Atomos2]

Feaster actually made some fantastic draft picks.

Tkachuk has a higher ceiling than Janko but I think Janko will make the team this year and Tkachuk will be sent down after 9 games. Take from that what you will.

That's typically more about NHL readiness and development rather than actual talent and ability. We could kinda argue the same over Brown and Marner. Still doesn't explain how Jankowski can be viewed as a better prospect than Brown, let alone being two tiers above.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Oh I'm sorry, you guys still have Jankowski? And he's a tier 1 prospect better than Brown eh? Guess Feaster's still making his mark on here

Five Connor Browns don't get you a Mark Jankowski.

 

[DJJones]

That's typically more about NHL readiness and development rather than actual talent and ability. We could kinda argue the same over Brown and Marner. Still doesn't explain how Jankowski can be viewed as a better prospect than Brown, let alone being two tiers above.

Jankowski is going to be an impact player. I don't mind being quoted saying that.

If Brown is in the Poirier/Mangiapane range he's not even guaranteed to ever play. I don't even think Shinkaruk is going to be a career NHLer even though he looked fine last year. I have Janko two tiers over those prospects anyway.

 

[hamzarocks]

Five Connor Browns don't get you a Mark Jankowski.

Nah that's just your opinion. Mine is that the only prospect I'd trade brown for from the flames prospects would be Tkachuck with an add from the leafs. The rest aren't good enough for me to deal brown. I underating though that you value jankowski really highly and love his game but lots of leafs fans feel the same with brown. If brown takes another step I personally would trade nylander or Marner over him for a top rhd and keep him as our 1st line winger. He has been nothing short of incredible in the ahl and was productive in a very short nhl stint. My opinion is mine and yours on jankowski is yours but saying jankowski is 5 times more valuable than brown ( when I don't see a case for him being more valuable and a better prospect than brown) is ridiculous.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Nah that's just your opinion. Mine is that the only prospect I'd trade brown for from the flames prospects would be Tkachuck with an add from the leafs. The rest aren't good enough for me to deal brown. I underating though that you value jankowski really highly and love his game but lots of leafs fans feel the same with brown. If brown takes another step I personally would trade nylander or Marner over him for a top rhd and keep him as our 1st line winger. He has been nothing short of incredible in the ahl and was productive in a very short nhl stint. My opinion is mine and yours on jankowski is yours but saying jankowski is 5 times more valuable than brown ( when I don't see a case for him being more valuable and a better prospect than brown) is ridiculous.

Connor Brown already has more NHL points then probably half of the Flames top 10 prospects.

 

[hamzarocks]

Connor Brown already has more NHL points then probably half of the Flames top 10 prospects.

I can understand the value in a lot of those guys especially the dmen. But a guy like shinkuruk has been put produced in the ahl, chl, and nhl by brown. Jankowski has had a good to great year in the ncaa but brown played in a better league and was the best player for the Marlies before willy came in his rookie season. I get that to have jankowski over all those guys, he must have watched him very often and appreciates parts of his games that other teams fans dont, but once again; a lot of leaf fans have been watching the Marlies more than the leafs over the past two season. I know I did. Brown was the 2nd best player on the team imo overall. Hes a grest pk'er and has incredible hockey IQ. The flames prospects are good and some great but brown is a guy I would be okay if he leafs built around. He's just the type of player the leafs need.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I can understand the value in a lot of those guys especially the dmen. But a guy like shinkuruk has been put produced in the ahl, chl, and nhl by brown. Jankowski has had a good to great year in the ncaa but brown played in a better league and was the best player for the Marlies before willy came in his rookie season. I get that to have jankowski over all those guys, he must have watched him very often and appreciates parts of his games that other teams fans dont, but once again; a lot of leaf fans have been watching the Marlies more than the leafs over the past two season. I know I did. Brown was the 2nd best player on the team imo overall. Hes a grest pk'er and has incredible hockey IQ. The flames prospects are good and some great but brown is a guy I would be okay if he leafs built around. He's just the type of player the leafs need.

Brown looks like he'll be a solid 2-way 2nd line winger.

 

[hamzarocks]

Brown looks like he'll be a solid 2-way 2nd line winger.

Right now yeah, but I think he has a higher ceiling and will continue to get better. I see him becoming like Mark stone if he hits his full potential. He has improved his skating to above average and as long as he continues to work on that aspect of his game he will be getting closer to reaching 1st line ability. He was nhl ready last year imo but was sent down due to the direction of the team, I'm confident he will be getting his shot this year and will be a great player.

 

[East Coast Icestyle]

I'm super pumped for Kylington. I thought he'd be a first rounder and he has not disappointed. I think we are all very high on I'm, as well as Andersson.

It's not to say your prospects aren't good. I mean, personally I think Kapanen will not be a regular on an NHL team but I see the value of Brown, and it's not clear how he will progress.

Tbh though Brown reminds me of Conor Garland (maybe not in play style, but upside/pedigree) and I doubt people value him as high as Brown is.