Player Discussion Brock Boeser - Brock Around the Clock

[Siludin]

Not sure if effort is Boesers issue. When you're a step behind everything it can just look that way.

Being in the dumps because your dad died is a 100% fair excuse for a blah season imo.
Especially because Duke Boeser was a big-time "hockey dad", coming to the rink every day probably triggers a lot of memories.
Boeser's injury history before this season can't be understated either. He said it took him 3+ years for his shot to feel back to normal after the Clutterbuck/open bench hit against the Islanders in 2018, and just as he starts to feel healthy again his dad starts to really decline and then passes away?
With context, everyone should be buying low on Boeser. I think next season will be the truest reflection of what we can expect out of him, which will give the Canucks enough information to make a real decision in his final year (if he isn't traded prior to then)

 

[Vector]

 

[VanJack]

The script got flipped. Boeser was supposed to the guy with 30 goals; and isbeing paid accordingly. Kuzmenko was in his first year in the league--and 10-15 goals seemed the most likely.

Surely this has to be 'it' for Boeser in Vancouver. After three seasons of trade speculation, the Canucks finally pull the trigger in the off-season. Although with is contract status, they won't get much back even if they retain salary.

 

[Vector]

He even stole Boeser’s majestic flow.

 

[Get North]

The script got flipped. Boeser was supposed to the guy with 30 goals; and isbeing paid accordingly. Kuzmenko was in his first year in the league--and 10-15 goals seemed the most likely.

Surely this has to be 'it' for Boeser in Vancouver. After three seasons of trade speculation, the Canucks finally pull the trigger in the off-season. Although with is contract status, they won't get much back even if they retain salary.

To be fair, Boeser's position on the PP was replaced by Kuzmenko. That can skew the production in favour of Kuzmenko while Boeser is trying to produce at even strength with Miller as his centre compared to PP and EV minutes with Pettersson (our best playmaker).

We lack good hockey players and at the very least Boeser is a top 6 winger. I'm not worried about his salary.

 

[DonnyNucker]

To be fair, Boeser's position on the PP was replaced by Kuzmenko. That can skew the production in favour of Kuzmenko while Boeser is trying to produce at even strength with Miller as his centre compared to PP and EV minutes with Pettersson (our best playmaker).

We lack good hockey players and at the very least Boeser is a top 6 winger. I'm not worried about his salary.

You aren’t worried about Boesers salary? He is most certainly NOT a top 6 winger. He lost his spot on the PP because Kuzy is 5 times the hockey player. He is superior at every single aspect of hockey. Kuzy builds up EP almost identical to how Elias builds him up. Elias’s production decreases by 50% when they aren’t paired together. Kuzy’s drops around 51%. Virtually identical. It’s absolute bs that Miller has to carry Boesers corpse around the rink

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

He even stole Boeser’s majestic flow.

 

[HockeyWooot]

You aren’t worried about Boesers salary? He is most certainly NOT a top 6 winger. He lost his spot on the PP because Kuzy is 5 times the hockey player. He is superior at every single aspect of hockey. Kuzy builds up EP almost identical to how Elias builds him up. Elias’s production decreases by 50% when they aren’t paired together. Kuzy’s drops around 51%. Virtually identical. It’s absolute bs that Miller has to carry Boesers corpse around the rink

It may be time to trade Boeser, but he is undoubtedly a top 6 winger. Not sure if you're confusing top 6 winger vs top line winger?

 

[DonnyNucker]

It may be time to trade Boeser, but he is undoubtedly a top 6 winger. Not sure if you're confusing top 6 winger vs top line winger?

He is a top 6 winger on Arizona perhaps. He doesn’t deserve to be in the top 6 in Vancouver and certainly not any contender.

 

[racerjoe]

View attachment 666988

Great pull and great show.

 

[Deeds26]

 

[Diamonddog01]

I don't get how this player gets so much ice-time - he's tied for 5th among Canuck forwards at almost 17 minutes a game. It's weird given how atrocious he's been this season.

 

[Get North]

He is a top 6 winger on Arizona perhaps. He doesn’t deserve to be in the top 6 in Vancouver and certainly not any contender.

If you put him on the Bruins, he's 2RW behind Pastrnak. That's the best team in the league for example.

A team like Toronto where Nylander and Marner are the top 2 RW, he would be a 3rd liner unless somebody switched sides. There's not a lot of good hockey players on Vancouver, but Boeser is one of very few.

The puck dies on Studnicka/Lazar/ and even Garland isn't capable of much without his 2 linemates contributing significantly. Boeser is a top 3 shooter on our team.

Petey, Kuzmenko, Miller/Beauvillier/Boeser are the most dangerous until Kravtsov/Pods/etc prove otherwise. I should conclude by mentioning, I've been watching less games since we're out of the playoffs. So this is an opinion based on the last 2-3 years excluding the last 2 months.

 

[DonnyNucker]

If you put him on the Bruins, he's 2RW behind Pastrnak. That's the best team in the league for example.

A team like Toronto where Nylander and Marner are the top 2 RW, he would be a 3rd liner unless somebody switched sides. There's not a lot of good hockey players on Vancouver, but Boeser is one of very few.

The puck dies on Studnicka/Lazar/ and even Garland isn't capable of much without his 2 linemates contributing significantly. Boeser is a top 3 shooter on our team.

Petey, Kuzmenko, Miller/Beauvillier/Boeser are the most dangerous until Kravtsov/Pods/etc prove otherwise. I should conclude by mentioning, I've been watching less games since we're out of the playoffs. So this is an opinion based on the last 2-3 years excluding the last 2 months.

Sorry man but this is so wrong I don’t know where to start. He is brutal. He got another point today and of course it was an empty net assist where he didn’t do much. I’d encourage you to watch a few games. In no way is he close to a top 6 forward on any playoff team.

 

[Regal]

If you put him on the Bruins, he's 2RW behind Pastrnak. That's the best team in the league for example.

A team like Toronto where Nylander and Marner are the top 2 RW, he would be a 3rd liner unless somebody switched sides. There's not a lot of good hockey players on Vancouver, but Boeser is one of very few.

The puck dies on Studnicka/Lazar/ and even Garland isn't capable of much without his 2 linemates contributing significantly. Boeser is a top 3 shooter on our team.

Petey, Kuzmenko, Miller/Beauvillier/Boeser are the most dangerous until Kravtsov/Pods/etc prove otherwise. I should conclude by mentioning, I've been watching less games since we're out of the playoffs. So this is an opinion based on the last 2-3 years excluding the last 2 months.

A healthy Bruins lineup has DeBrusk (currently better than Boeser) with Marchand and Bergeron and Pasta with Krejci and Zacha in the top 6. Then Hall, Coyle and Frederic as the usual third line, with now Bertuzzi fitting in there somewhere, likely bumping Frederic, and Hathaway as an energy right wing on the 4th, and Foligno in there too. With Boeser’s poor skating and defense, I don’t even think they would play him in a fully healthy lineup.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

wow i did not expect kuz to top boeser’s career high with 1/5 of the season to go

there was a time when i wondered out loud if boeser had a top five shot in canucks history

but actually kuzmenko might have top five hands?

 

[gringo]

It may be time to trade Boeser, but he is undoubtedly a top 6 winger. Not sure if you're confusing top 6 winger vs top line winger?

Top 6 wingers would get acceptable trade offers… I’m thinking Boeser might clear waivers right now.

 

[Bankerguy]

Petey, Kuzmenko, Jt. Miller, Garland, Boeser, Beauvillier, Mikheyev
7 guys, 6 spots to fill in the top six.
Which winger goes?
My guess is Boeser or Garland depenidng on the return.

 

[Vector]

The above tweet kind of grabbed my interest. After yesterday's game it felt like Boeser had a lot of multipoint games. I dug pretty deep into his and comparable players' scoresheets and his multipoint games did stand out but it was for games where he had 3 points or more. He's scored 10 points in 3 games. That seemed like a lot. I created a list of players with similar cap hits, points (40-50), and scoring percentage (60 or more). Including Boeser, there are 24 of these players.

Player	TG	GP	G	A	P	TP	P%
Yanni Gourde	66	2	3	3	6	41	14.63%
Jason Zucker	63	0	0	0	0	42	0.00%
Filip Forsberg	50	3	4	5	9	42	21.43%
Tyler Seguin	65	3	4	5	8	42	19.05%
William Karlsson	68	0	0	0	0	44	0.00%
Chris Kreider	64	0	0	0	0	45	0.00%
Jonathan Huberdeau	65	1	0	3	3	45	6.67%
Mikael Backlund	68	1	0	3	3	45	6.67%
Brock Boeser	58	3	2	8	10	45	22.22%
Patrik Laine	51	4	6	6	12	46	26.09%
Nick Schmaltz	50	2	1	6	7	46	15.22%
Anders Lee	69	1	0	3	3	46	6.52%
Phillip Danault	68	1	0	3	3	47	6.38%
Reilly Smith	68	0	0	0	0	47	0.00%
Rickard Rackell	67	1	0	3	3	47	6.38%
Sam Reinhart	67	2	2	4	6	48	12.50%
Jonathan Marchessault	62	2	3	3	6	48	12.50%
Brayden Schenn	66	0	0	0	0	48	0.00%
Kevin Hayes	66	2	4	2	6	49	12.24%
Nazem Kadri	68	2	3	3	6	49	12.24%
Joel Eriksson Ek	67	0	0	0	0	49	0.00%
Evgeny Kuznetsov	67	4	4	10	14	50	28.00%
Patrick Kane	60	5	8	8	16	50	32.00%
Blake Wheeler	59	2	4	3	7	50	14.00%

Boeser is one of 4 of these players with double digit multipoint games of 3 or higher. 22% of his production has come in only 3 games.

P%
Kane	32.00%	8.33%
Kuznetsov	28.00%	5.97%
Laine	26.09%	7.84%
Boeser	22.22%	5.17%
Forsberg	21.42%	6.00%
Seguin	19.05%	4.62%
Schmaltz	15.22%	4.00%
Gourde	14.63%	3.03%
Wheeler	14.00%	8.00%
Marchessault	12.50%	3.23%
Reinhart	12.50%	2.99%
Hayes	12.24%	3.03%
Kadri	12.24%	2.94%
Backlund	6.67%	1.47%
Huberdeau	6.67%	1.54%
Lee	6.52%	1.45%
Rackell	6.38%	1.49%
Danault	6.38%	1.47%
Zucker	0.00%	0.00%
Kreider	0.00%	0.00%
Karlsson	0.00%	0.00%
Smith	0.00%	0.00%
Schenn	0.00%	0.00%
Eriksson Ek	0.00%	0.00%

You can read this as 22% of Boeser's points have come in 5% of his games. All three players ahead of him have done so in more games. So is Boeser just streaky?

To figure that out I wanted to separate out scoreless games and games with 1-2 points.

Player	SG	%	<=1G	%	<=3G	%
Yanni Gourde	35	53.03%	29	43.94%	2	3.03%
Jason Zucker	33	52.38%	30	47.62%	0	0.00%
Filip Forsberg	20	40.00%	27	54.00%	3	6.00%
Tyler Seguin	34	52.31%	28	43.08%	3	4.62%
William Karlsson	34	50.00%	34	50.00%	0	0.00%
Chris Kreider	28	43.75%	36	56.25%	0	0.00%
Jonathan Huberdeau	22	33.85%	42	64.62%	1	1.54%
Mikael Backlund	33	48.53%	34	50.00%	1	1.47%
Brock Boeser	23	39.66%	32	55.17%	3	5.17%
Patrik Laine	25	49.02%	22	43.14%	4	7.84%
Nick Schmaltz	20	40.00%	28	56.00%	2	4.00%
Anders Lee	34	49.28%	34	49.28%	1	1.45%
Phillip Danault	32	47.06%	35	51.47%	1	1.47%
Reilly Smith	31	45.59%	37	54.41%	0	0.00%
Rickard Rackell	30	44.78%	36	53.73%	1	1.49%
Sam Reinhart	33	49.25%	32	47.76%	2	2.99%
Jonathan Marchessault	26	41.94%	34	54.84%	2	3.23%
Brayden Schenn	30	45.45%	36	54.55%	0	0.00%
Kevin Hayes	31	46.97%	33	50.00%	2	3.03%
Nazem Kadri	32	47.06%	34	50.00%	2	2.94%
Joel Eriksson Ek	30	44.78%	37	55.22%	0	0.00%
Evgeny Kuznetsov	32	47.76%	31	46.27%	4	5.97%
Patrick Kane	28	46.67%	27	45.00%	5	8.33%
Blake Wheeler	24	40.68%	33	55.93%	2	3.39%

In an ordered list of 1-2 point games, Boeser grades out quite well when compared to this group.

Huberdeau - 64.62%
Schmaltz - 56.00%
Wheeler - 55.93%
Eriksson Ek - 55.22%
Boeser - 55.17%
Marchesseault - 54.85%
Schenn - 54.55%
Smith - 54.41%
Forsberg - 54.00%
Rackell - 53.73%
Danault - 51.47%
Kadri - 50.00%
Karlsson - 50.00%
Hayes - 50.00%
Backlund - 50.00%
Lee - 49.28%
Reinhart - 47.76%
Zucker - 47.62%
Kuznetsov - 46.27%
Kane - 45.00%
Gourde - 43.94%
Laine - 43.14%
Seguin - 43.08%

Main problem with all this, I'd say damn near every single one of these guys are overpaid. Now I could go deeper and figure out the differences in power play points vs even strength & short handed or differentiate between goals, primary, and secondary assists but not right now.

 

[racerjoe]

The above tweet kind of grabbed my interest. After yesterday's game it felt like Boeser had a lot of multipoint games. I dug pretty deep into his and comparable players' scoresheets and his multipoint games did stand out but it was for games where he had 3 points or more. He's scored 10 points in 3 games. That seemed like a lot. I created a list of players with similar cap hits, points (40-50), and scoring percentage (60 or more). Including Boeser, there are 24 of these players.

Wow. Lots of work. Thank you.

My questions would be, if all are overpaid are none actually over paid? Our we as fans valuing something differently than the market is?

 

[Vector]

Wow. Lots of work. Thank you.

My questions would be, if all are overpaid are none actually over paid? Our we as fans valuing something differently than the market is?

I’d have to look at production from the league as a whole. Almost like a $$$ per WAR sort of formula. This list was looking at 5m minimum cap hit so it excludes quite a few.

For a guy like Danault, his defensive reputation and position definitely increased his value over hunts total points.

 

[M2Beezy]

Brock Boeser ANOTHER three point game, what a player

 

[racerjoe]

I’d have to look at production from the league as a whole. Almost like a $$$ per WAR sort of formula. This list was looking at 5m minimum cap hit so it excludes quite a few.

For a guy like Danault, his defensive reputation and position definitely increased his value over hunts total points.

I think while he is over paid, I do think we under value him as fans in this Market. We constantly call out his "secondary" points and call him a passenger, when I also just don't think you can produce like him if you are not a good player. He makes a lot of plays that lead somewhere.

I still think we should move him, but man would I be interested if he did spend the summer with Tochett and in the gym.

 

[cc]

If Tochet thinks that there's a lot of room to improve for Brock, I'd rather see if that's true before moving him. I'm not opposed to moving him but I'd rather do it when his value isn't so low.

 

[DonnyNucker]

If Tochet thinks that there's a lot of room to improve for Brock, I'd rather see if that's true before moving him. I'm not opposed to moving him but I'd rather do it when his value isn't so low.

Well I don’t think they have time to wait and perhaps that’s why they are giving Boeser prime minutes on PP1 and playing next to Miller. One of Garland or Boeser absolutely needs to be moved this summer so they can address the D