Value of: Brady Tkachuk

[h2]

you're overrating what a power forward means way too much just because they are rare.

Brady is rare, Rantanen is a better hockey player who wins his team more games and its not close.

I saw first hand in the early Sens-Leafs playoff games what even an aging power forward like Gary Roberts can do. It completely changed my perception on the role. I won't deny that I probably overrate what it means, but I think a lof of GM's (even some of the top ones) in the league probably do the same.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Theres no point in talking to him about Tkachuk he's unhinged when it comes to discussing the player. The blind hate is borderline unhealthy.


Na you just dont understand physicality in hockey.

na i love physical play. but im not going to delude myself into thinking Brady is a better player than Mikko because he is more physical.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

I think you're being very dramatic here and completely off. If you're a Red Wings fan, it's very obvious. Top line power forwards probably command the biggest premium in the game. You can draft a #1 dman every year in the draft, the same cannot be said for a top power forward. Tkachuk is a more rare commodity than Seider. Although I agree Det is probably happy to hold on to Seider.

Do I need to remind you that Seth Jones brought back Johansen when they were both young? Ottawa would not be adding lol

How common of a commodity do you think 22 year old #1 RHD are?

Also, would love some elaboration on the Jones/Johansen comparison. I assume you're saying Johansen wasn't that great of a get for Nashville?

 

[bert]

na i love physical play. but im not going to delude myself into thinking Brady is a better player than Mikko because he is more physical.

So not only do you not actually value physical play you wont read anyone elses responses. This isnt a debate about Rantanen vs Tkachuk. Rantanen is better. The real debate is if you want to enter a conversation about being realistic about Ottawa's current situation.

Ottawa isnt trading its 24 year old unicorn of a captain who is signed to a team friendly deal. No matter how much you stomp your feet and complain about him.

The sens also arent going to make any major decisions on this roster until next summer. They need to be evaluated by this new ownership an management and they need to see how they look under different coach.

Rantanen while the better player is 3 years older than Brady and is going to make between 4 and 5 million more a season. Add that up to what I said in the previous two paragraphs this aint happening. Then you take into account the fact is Stutzle is 21, Sanderson is 21, Greig is 21, Pinto is 23. The rest of the core is younger than Rantanen outside of Zub and Giroux. If you cant accept this and hate him so much please go cheer for Pittsburgh or Colorado or whoever else you have players on that you love.

 

[h2]

How common of a commodity do you think 22 year old #1 RHD are?

Also, would love some elaboration on the Jones/Johansen comparison. I assume you're saying Johansen wasn't that great of a get for Nashville?

Common enough that you can literally draft one every single year like I said. The same cannot be said for a top line power forward. I don't think you can really debate this.

For the comparison, I don't think in hindsight it was a good get for Nashville, but I was using it more for the value side of things. I think Jones and Seider have similar value at the time. I think Tkachuk has more value than Johansen at the time, there was no adding that took place.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

So not only do you not actually value physical play you wont read anyone elses responses. This isnt a debate about Rantanen vs Tkachuk. Rantanen is better. The real debate is if you want to enter a conversation about being realistic about Ottawa's current situation.

Ottawa isnt trading its 24 year old unicorn of a captain who is signed to a team friendly deal. No matter how much you stomp your feet and complain about him.

The sens also arent going to make any major decisions on this roster until next summer. They need to be evaluated by this new ownership an management and they need to see how they look under different coach.

Rantanen while the better player is 3 years older than Brady and is going to make between 4 and 5 million more a season. Add that up to what I said in the previous two paragraphs this aint happening. Then you take into account the fact is Stutzle is 21, Sanderson is 21, Greig is 21, Pinto is 23. The rest of the core is younger than Rantanen outside of Zub and Giroux. If you cant accept this and hate him so much please go cheer for Pittsburgh or Colorado or whoever else you have players on that you love.

it's not that Rantanan is better, it's that he's much much better.

like swapping Brady for Rantanen makes the Ottawa Senators significantly better. for one the top line would finally be positive in a season.

and you know that those players are so young actually makes it better to bring in a proven winner who still fits into their age group? instead of continuing with the frat house.

we've all seen how the how the young core operates together in ottawa, and it ain't that impressive, Brady included especially as the captain.

 

[bert]

it's not that Rantanan is better, it's that he's much much better.

like swapping Brady for Rantanen makes the Ottawa Senators significantly better. for one the top line would finally be positive in a season.

and you know that those players are so young actually makes it better to bring in a proven winner who still fits into their age group? instead of continuing with the frat house.

we've all seen how the how the young core operates together in ottawa, and it ain't that impressive, Brady included especially as the captain.

No they havent seen this team under a different coach. So we dont know. You simply wont be realistic with this team I guess eh. Did you even read my post? He's an amazing captain, people actually around the team with real hockey experience say it. DJ, Alfie, Jacques, Staios, Neil, Phillips, Stone, his teammates. But I guess you know leadership better right lol.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

No they havent seen this team under a different coach. So we dont know. You simply wont be realistic with this team I guess eh. Did you even read my post?

sure we don't know.

so they better wisen up and make the playoffs the next year or even Brady isn't going to be safe.

 

[Golden_Jet]

if you could get a signed rantanen for him would you really say no?

Yes, I say no.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Common enough that you can literally draft one every single year like I said. The same cannot be said for a top line power forward. I don't think you can really debate this.

For the comparison, I don't think in hindsight it was a good get for Nashville, but I was using it more for the value side of things. I think Jones and Seider have similar value at the time. I think Tkachuk has more value than Johansen at the time, there was no adding that took place.

RHD? Not really. More than the elite tier PWF? Yeah probably. Don't really give a shit. Seider right now is barely producing less than Tkachuk as a defenseman.

Also, I was very clear you were looking at the Jones/Johansen trade in hindsight. The season prior to his trade he was 8th in scoring among centers, on par with Stamkos and Sedin and ahead of Toews, Zetterberg, Thornton, and Kopitar. As a 22 year old. His value was extremely high at the time of the trade.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

sure we don't know.

so they better wisen up and make the playoffs the next year or even Brady isn't going to be safe.

Greig and Pinto will be, tho.

 

[h2]

RHD? Not really. More than the elite tier PWF? Yeah probably. Don't really give a shit. Seider right now is barely producing less than Tkachuk as a defenseman.

Also, I was very clear you were looking at the Jones/Johansen trade in hindsight. The season prior to his trade he was 8th in scoring among centers, on par with Stamkos and Sedin and ahead of Toews, Zetterberg, Thornton, and Kopitar. As a 22 year old. His value was extremely high at the time of the trade.

You don't agree that you can find a top RHD in every draft? It's a pretty common piece to draft at the top every year no?

So you don't give a shit, but then proceed to write the very next sentence which clearly contradicts that. Yes, the quarter mark of the season is the right time to state this right? lol.. Let's talk when Seider goes PPG.

Regardless of the Jones/Johansen example, I won't argue about the value comparisons. The point remains that nothing was added in a forward/defense swap.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Yes, I say no.

i remember when i said we should trade Brady for Eichel when he was first made available.

And i got ripped by the same people just like this lol

 

[h2]

i remember when i said we should trade Brady for Eichel when he was first made available.

And i got ripped by the same people just like this lol

You won't be surprised, but I still wouldn't.

Very happy to have Tkachuk on the Sens. A core of Stutzle/Tkachuk/Sanderson is very nice, everything else around those 3 needs to improve and I want to see what it looks like when it's playoff ready.

 

[bert]

i remember when i said we should trade Brady for Eichel when he was first made available.

And i got ripped by the same people just like this lol

You are so smart! You have also said that you want Brady to be stripped of the C. You have said that Stutzle should be captain and you'd trade Tkachuk for just about anyone.

You say lots of stuff.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

You don't agree that you can find a top RHD in every draft? It's a pretty common piece to draft at the top every year no?

So you don't give a shit, but then proceed to write the very next sentence which clearly contradicts that. Yes, the quarter mark of the season is the right time to state this right? lol.. Let's talk when Seider goes PPG.

Regardless of the Jones/Johansen example, I won't argue about the value comparisons. The point remains that nothing was added in a forward/defense swap.

A #1 RHD?

2021 your best chance is Clarke, and while he's no doubt going to be an NHLer, I question whether he'll be a #1 go to in all situations guy.
2020 there is none.
2015 there is none.

So yes, it's hardly a guarantee.

How does my next sentence (Regarding Brady and Mo's production) contradict that I don't give a shit if a #1RHD is more accessible than a top end PWF?

You won't argue the value comparison? You literally presented it as a value comparison lol. You brought up the Johansen/Jones trade to try to cite a top RHD that had been traded for what you considered a mediocre center in hindsight. But now that his status at the time has been pointed out it's no longer about the value comparison?

 

[h2]

A #1 RHD?

2021 your best chance is Clarke, and while he's no doubt going to be an NHLer, I question whether he'll be a #1 go to in all situations guy.
2020 there is none.
2015 there is none.

So yes, it's hardly a guarantee.

How does my next sentence (Regarding Brady and Mo's production) contradict that I don't give a shit if a #1RHD is more accessible than a top end PWF?

You won't argue the value comparison? You literally presented it as a value comparison lol. You brought up the Johansen/Jones trade to try to cite a top RHD that had been traded for what you considered a mediocre center in hindsight. But now that his status at the time has been pointed out it's no longer about the value comparison?

Yeah, even going off what you've stated for a #1 RHD and draft history, I think that it's common enough to draft at the top every year. Certainly compared to a PPG Power forward. - Again, this cannot be debated. I will not be revisiting this any further.

You don't see how "I DONT GIVE A f*** ABOUT THIS", and then going on to try to pump Seider's tires is contradictory? You clearly do give a f***. You've also made no logical arguments to counter anything. Seider is not PPG, at least not yet.

Lastly, you don't understand what I'm saying, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt - agreeing with how you evaluated the values and still made the point that even agreeing with your assessments on how that compares to Brady and Seider, the point remains that nothing was added from either side in the original trade.

Next.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

You are so smart! You have also said that you want Brady to be stripped of the C. You have said that Stutzle should be captain and you'd trade Tkachuk for just about anyone.

You say lots of stuff.

There's not that much difference between Brady and Stutzle as captains aside that one can actually carry his team to wins. But they are both children and in many instances do not act like captains and need a lot of maturity before they are captain material.

Giroux, Sanderson, Chych maybe.

Brady should really not be captain I think that much has been made obvious this season. But at the same time stripping him would cause more drama.

So it's hard to say, this team is already so fragile.

One thing is clear the entitled country club frathouse attitude of the core needs to be broken.

Also i want to trade Brady for anyone? I want to trade him for the Eichels, Draisaitls or Rantanens lol, players who would have clearly made this team much better than Brady.

 

[h2]

One thing is clear the entitled country club frathouse attitude of the core needs to be broken.

On that I agree. The old coaching staff was just horrible for enabling that.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yeah, even going off what you've stated for a #1 RHD and draft history, I think that it's common enough to draft at the top every year. Certainly compared to a PPG Power forward. - Again, this cannot be debated. I will not be revisiting this any further.

You don't see how "I DONT GIVE A f*** ABOUT THIS", and then going on to try to pump Seider's tires as contradictory? You clearly do give a f***. You've also made no logical arguments to counter anything. Seider is not PPG, at least not yet.

Lastly, you don't understand what I'm saying, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt - agreeing with how you evaluated the values and still made the point that even agreeing with you're assessments on how that compares to Brady and Seider, the point remains that nothing was added from either side in the original trade.

Next.

Yes. I'm learning that you seem to have a habit of "Not wanting to revisit" points after you've realized you were wrong lol.

Yes, I don't see how "Don't really give a shit" (Interesting that you completely reworded this and put it in all caps...) in reference to availability of #1RHD compared to Elite PWFs is contradicted by a direct comparison of Seider's scoring and Tkachuk's. These are two completely different points. Maybe look up the definition of contradiction? Did you use the wrong word?

And finally, no. I very clearly understand what you were saying. You brought up the Jones for Johansen 1 for 1 thinking Johansen was a scrub and trying to draw a comparison in value to prove that an additional piece wouldn't be needed to acquire Seider. And then when you realized Johansen was putting up the stats of a Top 10 center in the league all of a sudden you didn't want to compare value anymore. Again, you conveniently jump off these topics once you realize you were wrong.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Some insane overrating of a 65-75pt PWF going on in this thread. Brady is not Matthew. He has one PPG season and then a bunch of decent ones.

there’s no galaxy in which I’d trade Seider for him. No team should be trading a young 1D for Brady tkachuk.

It doesn’t really matter if he’s rare…6’8” starting goalies are also exceedingly rare. Does that mean you trade your 1D for a real tall goalie cause the latter is hard to find? Weird logic.

If tkachuk was an elite 1st liner, fine. But he ain’t…

 

[h2]

Some insane overrating of a 65-75pt PWF going on in this thread. Brady is not Matthew. He has one PPG season and then a bunch of decent ones.

there’s no galaxy in which I’d trade Seider for him. No team should be trading a young 1D for Brady tkachuk.

Likewise, there's no galaxy in which I'd trade Tkachuk for Seider. I don't think there's insane overrating at all, power forwards command a premium. Is Mitch Marner a better and more skilled player than Tkachuk? Absolutely. Would I make that trade? Hell no.

Keep him. We're very happy with Tkachuk.

 

[Shultzyfeelinirie25]

Norris, Tkachuk, and Sanderson for 2024 1st, 2025 2nd , berrgren, Edvinsson, and another prospect of your choosing ???

 

[RedHawkDown]

Likewise, there's no galaxy in which I'd trade Tkachuk for Seider. I don't think there's insane overrating at all, power forwards command a premium. Is Mitch Marner a better and more skilled player than Tkachuk? Absolutely. Would I make that trade? Hell no.

Keep him. We're very happy with Tkachuk.

Do they? Matthew Tkachuk coming off a 109 point season, FAR better than what Brady has done, got an aging Huberdeau and Weegar. At the time people also felt that Calgary was robbed, so it’s not like that was felt to be fair value.

What other scoring PWF have been traded and commanded high values? Crouse as a prospect was traded for a 2nd and a 3rd, so it’s not like he was valued super highly then. I can’t even think of other PWF that were traded. Just because something is rare doesn’t mean it’s automatically high value.

Norris, Tkachuk, and Sanderson for 2024 1st, 2025 2nd , berrgren, Edvinsson, and another prospect of your choosing ???

I apologize on behalf of wings fans for this post.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Likewise, there's no galaxy in which I'd trade Tkachuk for Seider. I don't think there's insane overrating at all, power forwards command a premium. Is Mitch Marner a better and more skilled player than Tkachuk? Absolutely. Would I make that trade? Hell no.

Keep him. We're very happy with Tkachuk.

Pretty sure it was established from the very beginning that both teams would gladly keep their guy lol.

The contention was over raw value. Younger physical #1RHD > PWF Winger.