Brady Tkachuk vs Mitch Marner

[summer tooth]

Marner is the better player on paper but Braeden Tkachuk is a tougher, more well-rounded player. Marner is definitely a good player though and it's not surprising that some people voted for him.

 

[Atomos2]

Ah come on, I have criticized Melnyk, Dorion and the coaching staff like a madman but stop acting as if the Sens have been FAILING to make the playoffs as LONG as the Leafs have failed to pass the 1st round...

100% of the roster players who were in the ECF 5 years ago (2017) have been gone for almost 3 years now. The Sens just went through a SCORCHED EARTH REBUILD

Their 2 (future) best players are 20 y/o...

Why are these two even being compared? Making the playoffs = missing the playoffs

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner never played on a rebuilding team, Leafs were exiting their rebuild when he started in 2016-17. He has had the opportunity to play with an elite player in Matthews right from the start

Marner joined the last place team in the league, and didn't play with Matthews in any situation for years.

Marner has been far more productive so far but if you're looking at this season only, it's similar so it's about can Tkachuk keep it up? If he does, then I think everyone would take Brady if production is similar.

If production were similar (it's not), Marner would still beat out Tkachuk with his defensive and PK abilities.

 

[Notsince67]

Brady is a fine player. Well above average and a quintessential power forward. That said, while he breaks into the top 20th percentile of players over the last 3 years from a "goals above replacement" perspective (I used 3 yrs because this year he is below that) it's a long way from the top 1 percentile that Marner sits. The differential is way past the margin of error. It is pretty conclusive.

Let's not get ridiculous on the hyping. Nobody in the league would choose Brady over Mitch.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Brady is a fine player. Well above average and a quintessential power forward. That said, while he breaks into the top 20th percentile of players over the last 3 years from a "goals above replacement" perspective (I used 3 yrs because this year he is below that) it's a long way from the top 1 percentile that Marner sits. The differential is way past the margin of error. It is pretty conclusive.

Let's not get ridiculous on the hyping. Nobody in the league would choose Brady over Mitch.

Nobody in the league (a laughable, and likely dead wrong superlative) would choose either player by looking at percentile splits of past regular seasons.

Brady and Mitchy are neck and neck in production this year. Both are wingers with quality line mates (mind you, Mitchy has the reigning Rocket and Hart winner as his centre). Brady is a better goal scorer, a stud in the face off circle, a heavyweight fighter, and a hitting machine. And is a leader of men. Mitchy has the edge defensively. Also has a woeful playoff record.

I’d like Marner on my team, sure. But you don’t think when Benn crossied Matthews in the ribs to start the year that you wouldn’t have preferred Brady as his winger over Mitchy?

 

[Notsince67]

Nobody in the league (a laughable, and likely dead wrong superlative) would choose either player by looking at percentile splits of past regular seasons.

Brady and Mitchy are neck and neck in production this year. Both are wingers with quality line mates (mind you, Mitchy has the reigning Rocket and Hart winner as his centre). Brady is a better goal scorer, a stud in the face off circle, a heavyweight fighter, and a hitting machine. And is a leader of men. Mitchy has the edge defensively. Also has a woeful playoff record.

I’d like Marner on my team, sure. But you don’t think when Benn crossied Matthews in the ribs to start the year that you wouldn’t have preferred Brady as his winger over Mitchy?

Brady is a better goal scorer? Lol that is a hard won to justify with any stats. Beyond that, If he spent any time on the defensive end of the puck his production would plummet.
How can you even talk about playoffs? Marner helped bring a dead last leafs team into the playoffs in his first year. Pretty sure getting into the playoffs is the first step of talking about the playoffs

 

[jbeck5]

Could you send me the link?

The link might be broken like the player.

 

[jbeck5]

Everyone just assumes that Brady will be successful in the playoffs, meanwhile look at his brother....

No, but the point is just because someone plays a more physical game doesn't mean they will be more successful in the playoffs. Brady has no playoff record, so you can't assume anything. He could be Briere or he could be Seguin

They play totally different games and are totally different sizes.

Bringing up Matthew tkachuk when discussing Brady tkachuk makes as much sense as bringing in Daniel Briere.

 

[jbeck5]

And Brady is even worse. A regular season choker which tbh is much more embarassing.

What? He's well over a ppg. That's not choking. Maybe point to other guys on the team not performing?

Clearly you don't know what choking means. It doesn't mean putting up a bunch of numbers.

Choking would be like what Marner does where his production almost gets cut in half. THAT'S choking.

Do you know understand what choking is or should I go over more Marner stats to show how much his offense dries up. You know, the choking part.

 

[jbeck5]

He definitely IS a much better player, but it's irrelevant to my point - that we can't just assume that because a player is physical they're going to be clutch in the post season.

As of right now Brady is a total question mark in that regard because he's never played a game in that situation in the NHL

It's the skill+size+leadership+physicality.

Pointing to Anderson who's missing half the qualities, and the other qualities are half as strong, doesn't really make a good comparison.

It's like you saw their height and weight and figured that would make a good comparison.

Still Brady? Outside of these season Marner had blown him out in every category outside of physicality. 20ish games won't change that.

They were at different points in their development curve. To compare those years would be asinine. Powerforwards take longer to develop too.

Compare their current play, not their play where tkachuk was still developing while Marner was in his prime.

Sure, you can have the opinion that Brady needs to keep this play going...sure...but we should most definitely be comparing their current play. If Brady falls off, then the discussion goes away. If it doesn't, then we've got ourselves a good discussion.

 

[umma gumma]

And yet he still has more points in the playoffs than Tkachuk.

Brady may never make the playoffs during the term of his contract.

Can't even get his team out of the gutter. Some captain... At least he hasn't let his wife run someone out of town yet. That's a positive.

And yet they still have the same number of series victories, so his points have been...pointless.

Marner probably shakes a better hand though.

 

[JimmyApples]

And yet they still have the same number of series victories, so his points have been...pointless.

Marner probably shakes a better hand though.

Marner gets a lot of respect in the handshake line

 

[jbeck5]

I mean, Marner is only 2 years older. Its not much of an age gap.



2 years.

3 draft years.

3 development years.

3 years of NHL eligibility.

3 years.

But keep being bias to try to make your argument look better.

There's 2.5 years separating them.

I'm born september 89. Someone that's 2.5 years older would be 3 grades higher than me growing up, and everyone would call 3 years older.

Maybe you didn't know this, but there's such thing as fiscal years. For hockey, the years change over in September, not January.

So picture someone who's 3 years older in birth years but 2.5 years older in calendar years. THAT'S the difference between the two players in hockey years.

Basically, in terms of hockey or development years, Marner is in grade 12 and tkachuk is in grade 9.

And you're like "pffft that's barely any difference in their development"

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Ah yes, the daily Little Brother Syndrome Marner Vs X poll of the day.

 

[Voight]

3 draft years.

3 development years.

3 years of NHL eligibility.

3 years.

But keep being bias to try to make your argument look better.

There's 2.5 years separating them.

I'm born september 89. Someone that's 2.5 years older would be 3 grades higher than me growing up, and everyone would call 3 years older.

Maybe you didn't know this, but there's such thing as fiscal years. For hockey, the years change over in September, not January.

So picture someone who's 3 years older in birth years but 2.5 years older in calendar years. THAT'S the difference between the two players in hockey years.

Basically, in terms of hockey or development years, Marner is in grade 12 and tkachuk is in grade 9.

And you're like "pffft that's barely any difference in their development"

Regardless Marner is better.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Nobody in the league (a laughable, and likely dead wrong superlative) would choose either player by looking at percentile splits of past regular seasons.

Brady and Mitchy are neck and neck in production this year. Both are wingers with quality line mates (mind you, Mitchy has the reigning Rocket and Hart winner as his centre). Brady is a better goal scorer, a stud in the face off circle, a heavyweight fighter, and a hitting machine. And is a leader of men. Mitchy has the edge defensively. Also has a woeful playoff record.

I’d like Marner on my team, sure. But you don’t think when Benn crossied Matthews in the ribs to start the year that you wouldn’t have preferred Brady as his winger over Mitchy?

John Tavares is the reigning Hart and Rocket winner? That's who Marner's been centering all year.

Playoff's are won as a team, Marner has 33 points in 37 playoff games, no series wins but I guarantee if things were the other way around, you'd be putting more emphasis on the playoff PPG rather than lack of team success in the playoffs. If you're holding poor team performance against him, I think it's only fair to attach Ottawa's lack of even regular season success to him for the sake of the comparison.

 

[jbeck5]

Brady is a better goal scorer? Lol that is a hard won to justify with any stats. Beyond that, If he spent any time on the defensive end of the puck his production would plummet.
How can you even talk about playoffs? Marner helped bring a dead last leafs team into the playoffs in his first year. Pretty sure getting into the playoffs is the first step of talking about the playoffs

I'm pretty sure he already spends more time in the defensive end than Marner.

So if anything, as the team gets better, tkachuk will have less time in the defensive end, and more time in the offensive end, and thus, will lead to more offensive production.

Ah yes, the daily Little Brother Syndrome Marner Vs X poll of the day.

Marner has an older brother?

 

[jbeck5]

Regardless Marner is better.

More developed*, yes.

I'm not noticing Marner improving much over the last couple years...Brady on the other hand...

And I'm not even noticing Brady's improvements slowing down. He's already matching marners offense, how long before he surpasses him at other things? Maybe a few months? Who knows?

The point is Brady clearly has more potential for improvements in his game compared to marner. One has plateau'd and the other is just starting to break out and in the middle of a sharp incline.

Many teams would take Brady. And he costs a few mil less long term.

John Tavares is the reigning Hart and Rocket winner? That's who Marner's been centering all year.

Playoff's are won as a team, Marner has 33 points in 37 playoff games, no series wins but I guarantee if things were the other way around, you'd be putting more emphasis on the playoff PPG rather than lack of team success in the playoffs. If you're holding poor team performance against him, I think it's only fair to attach Ottawa's lack of even regular season success to him for the sake of the comparison.

No it's that marner's production falls flat. That's why they're blaming him.

Tkachuk leads the sens in points and his production doesn't get cut in half at any point.


So THATS why people are chirping marner.

Didn't think it was hard to figure out why they were chirping his playoff game...

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I'm pretty sure he already spends more time in the defensive end than Marner.

So if anything, as the team gets better, tkachuk will have less time in the defensive end, and more time in the offensive end, and thus, will lead to more offensive production.



Marner has an older brother?

The Leafs and their fans seem to have a lot of posters with lil bro syndrome from Ottawa and Buffalo that love making Marner comparison threads, and pretending their takes favouring their teams players aren't just as biased as those of the other teams fans.

 

[HockeyWooot]

For most teams if this season so far is a sign of things to come for Tkachuk, then he’s my pick. No slight at Marner who’s one of the best in the game.

For my Canucks that are soft as hell, Tkachuk would be a great add. Marner as a playmaking winger is something he don’t have either, him feeding pucks to Horvat would be lethal.

Can’t go wrong with either obviously.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

More developed*, yes.

I'm not noticing Marner improving much over the last couple years...Brady on the other hand...

And I'm not even noticing Brady's improvements slowing down. He's already matching marners offense, how long before he surpasses him at other things? Maybe a few months? Who knows?

The point is Brady clearly has more potential for improvements in his game compared to marner. One has plateau'd and the other is just starting to break out and in the middle of a sharp incline.

Many teams would take Brady. And he costs a few mil less long term.



No it's that marner's production falls flat. That's why they're blaming him.

Tkachuk leads the sens in points and his production doesn't get cut in half at any point.


So THATS why people are chirping marner.

Didn't think it was hard to figure out why they were chirping his playoff game...

...the numbers I quoted were from the playoffs, thought that was obvious but I guess not...if the Sens ever make the playoffs and people were chirping Stutzle despite being near PPG in playoffs, you'd be defending him and complaining about dumb biased fans from other teams. Brady is producing at a ppg for the first time in his career and that signals exponential growth long term to you...lol ok, I'll let you pretend your unbiased here.

 

[Notsince67]

I'm pretty sure he already spends more time in the defensive end than Marner.

So if anything, as the team gets better, tkachuk will have less time in the defensive end, and more time in the offensive end, and thus, will lead to more offensive production.



Marner has an older brother?

Kind of a lazy take. Look at the percentage of shift starts in defensive zone vs offensive zone for both players. Despite that deployment, Marner still manages a signficantly better +/-. Either Brady is really bad at defense or he just doesn't bother coming back to defend.

 

[Voight]

More developed*, yes.

I'm not noticing Marner improving much over the last couple years...Brady on the other hand...

And I'm not even noticing Brady's improvements slowing down. He's already matching marners offense, how long before he surpasses him at other things? Maybe a few months? Who knows?

The point is Brady clearly has more potential for improvements in his game compared to marner. One has plateau'd and the other is just starting to break out and in the middle of a sharp incline.

Many teams would take Brady. And he costs a few mil less long term.



No it's that marner's production falls flat. That's why they're blaming him.

Tkachuk leads the sens in points and his production doesn't get cut in half at any point.


So THATS why people are chirping marner.

Didn't think it was hard to figure out why they were chirping his playoff game...

Marner plateauing as one of the best wingers in the game is hardly something to frown upon.

Tkachuk has matched Marner offensively? On what planet?! They are close in points this year but that does not mean Tkachuk has matched his offence. Lets see him do it over a full season, and then multiple seasons.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

What? He's well over a ppg. That's not choking. Maybe point to other guys on the team not performing?

Clearly you don't know what choking means. It doesn't mean putting up a bunch of numbers.

Choking would be like what Marner does where his production almost gets cut in half. THAT'S choking.

Do you know understand what choking is or should I go over more Marner stats to show how much his offense dries up. You know, the choking part.

hmm so it's playoff Choking when Marner (over ppg playoffs last year) is on a team that loses in the first round, but Brady isn't a regular season choker when his team can't make the playoffs for several years and woefully under achieves regular season expectations this season. Interesting.

 

[Bileur]

I’d take Brady but to be fair, Marner is definitely much better than him defensively.