Brady Tkachuk vs Mitch Marner

[LeafsNation75]

Only 100 point winger that is effective on the PK in the league.

Technically Marner has not yet got 100 points. Last season he had 97 points in 72 games played. Chances are if he didn't miss any games, he would have had at least 100+ points. So hopefully that's a number he can get this season.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I voted Marner in the poll, however maybe just a sliiiiight reach there with that second statement. He was a big reason why they made it, but the Leafs had a very balanced Top 6 in his rookie season.

Besides Marner it was also the rookie seasons for Matthews, Nylander, Hyman, Brown, and Zaitsev. So that's 6 rookies playing all the time, which doesn't include Kapanen who was called up late towards the end of that year.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Tkachuk would be fantastic to have for the Leafs. Both are very different players, different skillsets and playing styles.

Tkachuk is a great player. Would love to have him. He's factually not on Marner's level.

 

[Xspyrit]

Tkachuk is a great player. Would love to have him. He's factually not on Marner's level.

You would tell me "I choose Marner" or "Marner is better", I would be ok with it but "not the same level" is completely different

What makes you say that? Is it the 9 additional assists in 1 more game?

Or the "defensive game"? Marner defensive game "took off" a few years ago but the whole Leafs team did as well, something that has not happened for Ottawa yet (and certainly won't happen under the current management and coaching)

I guarantee you that if you put Tkachuk on the Leafs, his defensive numbers will suddenly look much better

 

[ottawa]

The answer will always be Marner no matter how many times sens fans bring this up

 

[Dekes For Days]

You would tell me "I choose Marner" or "Marner is better", I would be ok with it but "not the same level" is completely different
What makes you say that? Is it the 9 additional assists in 1 more game?

I mean, we could start with the offense being on different tiers, and then get into the defense being polar opposites, before topping it off with Marner's elite PK abilities.

 

[IPS]

You tried to equate Marner signing his contract on the day Leafs training camp started in September 2019, which is not the same as Brady missing training camp, the preseason, and the start of the regular season. You also needed to mention Nylander's hold out as a desperate attempt which didn't make sense because he's not apart of this question,

So, thank you for contributing and whatever digs you wanted to take at the Leafs failed.

I think @Golden_Jet took a pretty bad L on this one

 

[LeafsNation75]

I think @Golden_Jet took a pretty bad L on this one

I would 100% definitely agree with that statement.

 

[General Fanager]

Marner

Easy one

 

[Martin Skoula]

The Marner family just doesn’t have the extensive documented history of being consistent playoff beasts like the Tkachuk family does. Keith and Matt are/were perennial Conn Smythe threats, no reason Brady won’t be the same.

 

[Bileur]

I think @Golden_Jet took a pretty bad L on this one

Lol. Don’t see it.

@Golden_Jet acknowledged from the start that Marner didn’t miss camp.

@LeafsNation75 raised a weak point about Tkachuk’s contract negotiations because he knew he had no response to what @bert said about Marner not stepping up when it matters most.

 

[Xspyrit]

I mean, we could start with the offense being on different tiers, and then get into the defense being polar opposites, before topping it off with Marner's elite PK abilities.

Ok so you're basically saying that you don't have the ability to read?

I'm not even sure if you understood yet that this thread is about this season only?

Do you even know that argumentating is not about repeating the same thing over and over? You have to read the other person's response and take what is said in consideration, then respond accordingly

That was a weird conversation lol

 

[LeafsNation75]

Lol. Don’t see it.

@Golden_Jet acknowledged from the start that Marner didn’t miss camp.

@LeafsNation75 raised a weak point about Tkachuk’s contract negotiations because he knew he had no response to what @bert said about Marner not stepping up when it matters most.

Originally @bert said Brady would never be a no show for his teammates. That's when I used the example where he held out missing training camp, the preseason, and the start of the regular season.

And Brady would never no show for his teammates as much as marner has when it counts most. So here we are. 1967 when there was 6 teams in the league. Never win 3 consecutive playoff series in franchise history. Etc etc etc.

 

[Bileur]

Originally @bert said Brady would never be a no show for his teammates. That's when I used the example where he held out missing training camp, the preseason, and the start of the regular season.

Hmmmm… let’s see what he said in the second half of the sentence:

And Brady would never no show for his teammates as much as marner has when it counts most. So here we are. 1967 when there was 6 teams in the league. Never win 3 consecutive playoff series in franchise history. Etc etc etc.

That you would think training camp and the first three games of the season constitute « when it counts most » explains a lot about your take.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Hmmmm… let’s see what he said in the second half of the sentence:



That you would think training camp and the first three games of the season constitute « when it counts most » explains a lot about your take.

No matter what it's a fact that last season Brady missed training camp, the preseason, and the start of the regular season because of a contract dispute. That means at some point in his career he wasn't there for his teammates.

 

[LeafsNation75]

You would tell me "I choose Marner" or "Marner is better", I would be ok with it but "not the same level" is completely different

What makes you say that? Is it the 9 additional assists in 1 more game?

Or the "defensive game"? Marner defensive game "took off" a few years ago but the whole Leafs team did as well, something that has not happened for Ottawa yet (and certainly won't happen under the current management and coaching)

I guarantee you that if you put Tkachuk on the Leafs, his defensive numbers will suddenly look much better

You do know that Marner plays on the Leafs #1 penalty kill, where as Brady never plays when the Senators are on the penalty kill.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ok so you're basically saying that you don't have the ability to read?
I'm not even sure if you understood yet that this thread is about this season only?

I can read perfectly fine. It seems you're having trouble with that. You asked a question and I answered.
This thread is about this season (which is stupid enough on its own, and was merely an attempt to ignore the massive gap between them by posting the thread early season when Tkachuk was at a peak, unsustainable pace and Marner was in his biggest production drought in years), and this season, like all of the other seasons, Marner is clearly better.
Your only argument against this seems to be ignoring that Marner is better at literally everything, and arbitrarily claiming that Tkachuk would be just as good if X, Y, and Z.
That's not how this works.

 

[MCR74]

I can read perfectly fine. It seems you're having trouble with that. You asked a question and I answered.
This thread is about this season (which is stupid enough on its own, and was merely an attempt to ignore the massive gap between them by posting the thread early season when Tkachuk was at a peak, unsustainable pace and Marner was in his biggest production drought in years), and this season, like all of the other seasons, Marner is clearly better.
Your only argument against this seems to be ignoring that Marner is better at literally everything, and arbitrarily claiming that Tkachuk would be just as good if X, Y, and Z.
That's not how this works.

Hey, when it comes to Marner, whatever fits the narrative, right?

I want to see a poll between those two at this point of the season.

 

[Rengorlex]

Marner for regular season, Tkachuk when the games matter.

 

[Notsince67]

The Marner family just doesn’t have the extensive documented history of being consistent playoff beasts like the Tkachuk family does. Keith and Matt are/were perennial Conn Smythe threats, no reason Brady won’t be the same.

Too bad Brent and Keith Gretzky weren't really given a chance then.

 

[MCR74]

Marner for regular season, Tkachuk when the games matter.

When has Tkachuk ever shown up in the games that matter? We keep hearing he's destined to be a playoff warrior, but he's yet to do it.

 

[Rengorlex]

When has Tkachuk ever shown up in the games that matter? We keep hearing he's destined to be a playoff warrior, but he's yet to do it.

Brady has never played in the playoffs, but surely he can't be worse there than Marner. I'd take my chances as his game projects much better to real hockey.

 

[MCR74]

Brady has never played in the playoffs, but surely he can't be worse there than Marner. I'd take my chances as his game projects much better to real hockey.

We may never know.

 

[Atomos2]

Per usual, Maple Leaf fans will, during the regular season, hype up Marner like he’s the second best player in the world only to want to get rid of him after yet another disappointing playoffs. Please don’t act like you’re happy with Marners playoffs this far…

And per usual Sens fans will hype up Tkachuk like a playoff god during the regular season and then move on to watch something else when the playoffs start.

 

[Bileur]

No matter what it's a fact that last season Brady missed training camp, the preseason, and the start of the regular season because of a contract dispute. That means at some point in his career he wasn't there for his teammates.

It’s a comparison. @bert mentionned « as much as Marner has when it counts most».

Tkachuk wasn’t there for training camp, preseason and three regular season games last season. It is true. Once he returned, he was named captain in large part because of how he has shown up for his teammates on ice since day one, paying the price at every occasion, consistently leading the team into battle even when the rest of the team was taking a night off.

Marner, for all his qualities like elite playmaking/skating/production and excellent PK ability hasn’t been known to show up for his teammates in the same manner. He hangs his hat on other skills.

No matter what, is a fact that at this point in his career, in 6 deciding games in the playoffs when it matters most, Marner has 0 goals, 2 assists and is -5.