Proposal: Brady Tkachuk to New York Rangers

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

sorry, no, you're just saying this. The rumours out of Ottawa are real - his brother matt even liked it. remember matt? he leveraged his way off of a canadian team too.


vanishingly low likelihood for laf trade. Brady trade is nonzero and ticking up each day

This is just your conjecture.

 

[noncents]

This is just your conjecture.

you're correct. it's just a story we've seen before. history rhyming.

kreider lindgren rempe 1st. sound good?

 

[Fatass]

you're correct. it's just a story we've seen before. history rhyming.

kreider lindgren rempe 1st. sound good?

Why would the Sens trade Brady T, and especially for that type of return?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

you're correct. it's just a story we've seen before. history rhyming.

kreider lindgren rempe 1st. sound good?

Ew. Rempe sucks. lol, little to no value in that player. Kreider is too old for this teams trajectory, turning 34 in a few months, and isn't producing this year, causing too much concern about an age related decline. Especially in the context of moving a better, younger player for him. Lindgren is fine as a throw in but doesn't move the needle for me at all. So you're down to a 1st of a likely playoff team.

Schneider, Laf, Lindgren (or Kakko) and a 1st, at minimum imo.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Why would the Sens trade Brady T, and especially for that type of return?

They wouldn’t, poster is out of touch, thinks people want an overpaid D, and guy with a bad back, and much older.

It’s a junk return, not too mention Brady isn’t going anywhere. This guy keeps dreaming about it though.

It’s like saying Sens offer Pinto, Perron, Gaudette and a second for Lafrenière.

 

[Korpse]

you're correct. it's just a story we've seen before. history rhyming.

kreider lindgren rempe 1st. sound good?

The story we've seen since he has been drafted is how he doesn't want to be in Ottawa, but for some reason he signed a long term extension and is still in Ottawa. Maybe one day the group of people who don't want to see Brady in Ottawa will get there way, but probably not going to be today.

If Ottawa were to move him and that's the offer from NY, they will just look else where. Pretty simple.

 

[Casper The Soy Ghost]

He didn’t have a lot of choice in the matter.

I’m just hearing that the contract came with the understanding that his role would increase and it hasn’t.

?

Of course he did. He could've signed a shorter deal and banked on himself.

He could've asked for a trade and what not.

Also we suck at negotiating.. we usually end up overpaying and giving up NTC'S/NMC'S like they're candy.

Also where have you been hearing this? Got any sources or something? Or is it just pure speculation from you/random people on HFB?

 

[Brooklyndevil]

The issue here is that Rangers fans are talking up Lafreniere as being as good as Tkachuk without the PP1 time (we have a set PP1, so Brady would be out of luck also). Even if you concede Tkachuk is better, the difference isn’t Kakko, who is turning into a top six winger this season.

So definitely not.

Pumping the tires on Kakko, don’t you think? He’s a 2nd, 3rd line player who’s useful but has no scoring touch.

 

[bernmeister]

you're correct. it's just a story we've seen before. history rhyming.

kreider lindgren rempe 1st. sound good?

Ew. Rempe sucks. lol, little to no value in that player. Kreider is too old for this teams trajectory, turning 34 in a few months, and isn't producing this year, causing too much concern about an age related decline. Especially in the context of moving a better, younger player for him. Lindgren is fine as a throw in but doesn't move the needle for me at all. So you're down to a 1st of a likely playoff team.

Schneider, Laf, Lindgren (or Kakko) and a 1st, at minimum imo.

They wouldn’t, poster is out of touch, thinks people want an overpaid D, and guy with a bad back, and much older.

It’s a junk return, not too mention Brady isn’t going anywhere. This guy keeps dreaming about it though.

It’s like saying Sens offer Pinto, Perron, Gaudette and a second for Lafrenière.

All the bolded offers suck it big time

 

[Wondercarrot]

now, if you are gonna undervalue guys like LaF/overvalue others like Bath, I can't help you b'c we are not ballpark same page on the pieces

you are correct, I was being generous with Lafreniere - I overvalued him and undervalued Batherson by suggesting they were comparable.

Get back to me when Lafreniere has scored at Batherson’s rate in the NHL.
When Batherson was 23 he was at a PPG, unfortunate he got gooned by that goalie and took a year out of his game but he’s back to 30+g PPG/pace.

Something Lafreniere hasn’t shown any indication of doing. Good player though.

 

[Wondercarrot]

The issue here is that Rangers fans are talking up Lafreniere as being as good as Tkachuk without the PP1 time (we have a set PP1, so Brady would be out of luck also). Even if you concede Tkachuk is better, the difference isn’t Kakko, who is turning into a top six winger this season.

So definitely not.

The issue is that you think Lafreniere is Brady’s comparable, when in reality it’s Batherson.

 

[Wondercarrot]

you're correct. it's just a story we've seen before. history rhyming.

kreider lindgren rempe 1st. sound good?

Last year it was made up (and acknowledged as such by the podcasters) in STL, and this year it’s the Rangers talking to themselves.
Neither Brady nor Ottawa are involved in your conversations.

The Rangers are in free fall, with a shitty locker room and looking for a lifeline - feel free to leave us out of it.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

All the bolded offers suck it big time

It would be a very hard trade to make. NYR wouldn't want to tear their team apart to get him, but secondary or role players like Kakko, Lindgren & especially Rempe aren't moving the needle in a Tkachuk trade and Kreider at his age doesn't make sense for Ottawa's trajectory unless he fell in their lap cheap.

I stand by my proposal's general value. Laf & Schneider as the decent but less proven than Tkachuk as the main return, Kakko the throw in depth player with mostly faux value from draft status, and a likely mid-low 1st, maybe dips to a 2nd. Take Kakko out for some other depth player and make it a 2nd and it doesn't really change the value that much anyways. Laf + Scheider as the base seems very reasonable, but I think most would agree not quite enough.

 

[SensFactor]

Brady is not being traded. I guarantee it. This thread needs to end. Enough back and forth.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Pumping the tires on Kakko, don’t you think? He’s a 2nd, 3rd line player who’s useful but has no scoring touch.

He’s on pace for 44 points this season at age 23, and he plays less than 14 minutes per game with very little PP time. Also a very responsible defensive player. He’s not a third line player.

The issue is that you think Lafreniere is Brady’s comparable, when in reality it’s Batherson.

Actually, no it’s not. Lafreniere is a few years younger than both, so you have to take that into account.

The argument that they are comparable is based on the fact that their scoring numbers at evens the last few years have been very similar. The difference is PP. Lafreniere barely gets any PP time. Eventually that will change. Factor in he’s two years younger, as I said. Where will he be in two years?

So I’m not saying that it would be unreasonable to want more from a Sens perspective. There could theoretically be an add from the Rangers side, but the phone is hung up if the retort is that the trade is Batherson for Lafreniere.

 

[Wondercarrot]

He’s on pace for 44 points this season at age 23, and he plays less than 14 minutes per game with very little PP time. Also a very responsible defensive player. He’s not a third line player.


Actually, no it’s not. Lafreniere is a few years younger than both, so you have to take that into account.

The argument that they are comparable is based on the fact that their scoring numbers at evens the last few years have been very similar. The difference is PP. Lafreniere barely gets any PP time. Eventually that will change. Factor in he’s two years younger, as I said. Where will he be in two years?

So I’m not saying that it would be unreasonable to want more from a Sens perspective. There could theoretically be an add from the Rangers side, but the phone is hung up if the retort is that the trade is Batherson for Lafreniere.

Batherson was at PPG at Lafrenieres age, then he was injured.
Followed up with 2 60pts seasons, and is now back to PPG 30g+ pace.

With respect the PP Lafreniere gets 1:30/game Batherson around 3min/game.
During those minutes Batherson scores at a 3.5g/60 with 4.8 a/60
Lafreniere scores at 3.5g/60 with 0 a/60.

Lareniere plays with Panarin.
Batherson plays with Norris.

It’s not complicated or controversial to say that at this stage Lafreniere has yet to play at Batherson’s level at the same age - or otherwise.
I mean he hasn’t, period.

 

[bernmeister]

Batherson was at PPG at Lafrenieres age, then he was injured.
Followed up with 2 60pts seasons, and is now back to PPG 30g+ pace.

With respect the PP Lafreniere gets 1:30/game Batherson around 3min/game.
During those minutes Batherson scores at a 3.5g/60 with 4.8 a/60
Lafreniere scores at 3.5g/60 with 0 a/60.

Lareniere plays with Panarin.
Batherson plays with Norris.

It’s not complicated or controversial to say that at this stage Lafreniere has yet to play at Batherson’s level at the same age - or otherwise.
I mean he hasn’t, period.

your points are fair, but let's be fully honest here
LaF was hyped as 'the best non generational 1OA since MacKinnon'.
He hugely disappointed, but as I again repeat, prob is that all his young skating was NOWHERE close to NHL ready. Took him couple of seasons to get that to fully par.
If you do the eye test from then forward [roughly last year to now] we see his upside is huge
it is not unreasonable to think that w/skating finally there,
he might indeed approach that exalted level of expectations

Which is more than Batherson, a fine player for sure.

 

[bernmeister]

It would be a very hard trade to make. NYR wouldn't want to tear their team apart to get him, but secondary or role players like Kakko, Lindgren & especially Rempe aren't moving the needle in a Tkachuk trade and Kreider at his age doesn't make sense for Ottawa's trajectory unless he fell in their lap cheap.

I stand by my proposal's general value. Laf & Schneider as the decent but less proven than Tkachuk as the main return, Kakko the throw in depth player with mostly faux value from draft status, and a likely mid-low 1st, maybe dips to a 2nd. Take Kakko out for some other depth player and make it a 2nd and it doesn't really change the value that much anyways. Laf + Scheider as the base seems very reasonable, but I think most would agree not quite enough.

Sorry but what you said was beyond ridiculous.
You are at liberty to "stand by my proposal's general value", but I assure, that is a bad look for you.

For a talented pt per game -ish guy who otherwise checks out
BUT
there is also signif risk once his nmc kicks in -- AND THAT IS NOT A MAYBE, IT IS DEF KICKIN IN -- that he will listen to his wife, want out, and turn into a zib II headcase.

No unless that risk is cheap enuf to entice reward, and again, Sens are not/should not feel, obliged to go there.

You literally said
"Schneider, Laf, Lindgren (or Kakko) and a 1st, at minimum imo."

There is ? that LaF alone does not more than cover that, esp since he does not have potential nmc headache baggage

Schneider is now 1RD and EVERYBODY wants him
no

Lindy sure but KK is a more than a 3rd line guy in a vacuum.
His line usually excels 5x5 w/excellent +/-.

And Rempe the team wins w/his energy
For the umpteenth time ditch the cooked Vesey
I said this start of training camp, and I got a lot of flack
NOW most are starting to agree.

And on top of that a 1st?

No.
This BT is a real legit serious player, but this is not McDavid we are talking about

 

[Whoot Whoot]

Rangers need a stud defensive dman not Brady

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Sorry but what you said was beyond ridiculous.
You are at liberty to "stand by my proposal's general value", but I assure, that is a bad look for you.

For a talented pt per game -ish guy who otherwise checks out
BUT
there is also signif risk once his nmc kicks in -- AND THAT IS NOT A MAYBE, IT IS DEF KICKIN IN -- that he will listen to his wife, want out, and turn into a zib II headcase.

No unless that risk is cheap enuf to entice reward, and again, Sens are not/should not feel, obliged to go there.

You literally said
"Schneider, Laf, Lindgren (or Kakko) and a 1st, at minimum imo."

There is ? that LaF alone does not more than cover that, esp since he does not have potential nmc headache baggage

Schneider is now 1RD and EVERYBODY wants him
no

Lindy sure but KK is a more than a 3rd line guy in a vacuum.
His line usually excels 5x5 w/excellent +/-.

And Rempe the team wins w/his energy
For the umpteenth time ditch the cooked Vesey
I said this start of training camp, and I got a lot of flack
NOW most are starting to agree.

And on top of that a 1st?

No.
This BT is a real legit serious player, but this is not McDavid we are talking about

I said what I said. The proposal I replied to was garbage from an Ottawa perspective, so maybe went to hard with the "at minimum" added comment because of that. Thinking Laf for Tkachuk straight up is within reason is much more ridiculous than anything I said though, if that's what you're implying.

Kakko is fine. Not dissing him, but he's not someone that moves the needle for trade value. Take him out and put in another middle 6 usable player without the draft status and it's just as well.

No complaints about Rempe either, but like Kakko, he's not a player I would want my team sacrificing any of Tkachuk's value for. Include him or don't, doesn't matter in the context of a Tkachuk trade.

The 1st is hard to gauge. You guys were in the Conference finals last year, have the best tender in the league, and are tracking to make the playoffs again. Too much risk to value it as anything but a late 1st, which drastically reduces the value even though it still carries the sticker shock of a 1st.

You want to bring McDavid in to the conversation? Start by doubling my proposed trade return.

Your conjecture about Tkachuk's intentions are irrelevant unless they become fact.

 

[Wondercarrot]

your points are fair, but let's be fully honest here
LaF was hyped as 'the best non generational 1OA since MacKinnon'.
He hugely disappointed, but as I again repeat, prob is that all his young skating was NOWHERE close to NHL ready. Took him couple of seasons to get that to fully par.
If you do the eye test from then forward [roughly last year to now] we see his upside is huge
it is not unreasonable to think that w/skating finally there,
he might indeed approach that exalted level of expectations

Which is more than Batherson, a fine player for sure.

Sure anything is possible.
Yet, with PP time this year while still playing with Panarin it’s not manifesting - he’s on pace for abt the same as last year.

How abt we let him hit 60pts in a season before you compare him with Batherson let alone “exalted #1 status because right now it’s simply not the case.

 

[jay from jersey]

Laffy + small add for Brady would likely be the deal. Both will likely make similar $$$
BT would be great with NY…. I’d try to move Kreider soon though, because Cuylle is emerging as a 2nd line PF…..
I’d love to have both him and BT in a NYR top6.

Laffy is already proven in the postseason. He elevates his game in big situations and has a lot of games in long hard fought series under his belt at 22. That’s pretty invaluable…..
The question is what will he top out as?? He’s already a 50-60pt even strength player with no 1st unit time with Fox and Panarin.
Him adding 25-30 more points to that playing 1.30 on a top 6-8 PP in the league isn’t a stretch at all….
Look at the guys totals that play on the NYR 1PPlast year. They are all pretty much PPG guys or better…
Panarin/kreids/zibby/Fox and Trochek all get hefty adds on their point totals due to the PP…..
Laffy with his laser beam wrister would have no problem lighting the lamp of feeds by fox or panarin in his wheelhouse, or banging in rebounds on shots from the point either. It’s not like he’s got no sandpaper in his game…..
BT would need to take over Kreiders 1st line 1PP spot for NYR to get the best output/value for moving Laf….
And kreids is still a solid player with a NMC on a sub 7 mill a year contract….
I’d love to add BT, but not the right move to trade Laf for him and then try and trade Kreider unless they plan on doing a massive retool of the roster/top 6

 

[The S5]

Ew. Rempe sucks. lol, little to no value in that player. Kreider is too old for this teams trajectory, turning 34 in a few months, and isn't producing this year, causing too much concern about an age related decline. Especially in the context of moving a better, younger player for him. Lindgren is fine as a throw in but doesn't move the needle for me at all. So you're down to a 1st of a likely playoff team.

Schneider, Laf, Lindgren (or Kakko) and a 1st, at minimum imo.

Haha, that is obnoxious. Love Brady, but no, that won't happen.

 

[bernmeister]

I said what I said. The proposal I replied to was garbage from an Ottawa perspective, so maybe went to hard with the "at minimum" added comment because of that. Thinking Laf for Tkachuk straight up is within reason is much more ridiculous than anything I said though, if that's what you're implying.

Kakko is fine. Not dissing him, but he's not someone that moves the needle for trade value. Take him out and put in another middle 6 usable player without the draft status and it's just as well.

No complaints about Rempe either, but like Kakko, he's not a player I would want my team sacrificing any of Tkachuk's value for. Include him or don't, doesn't matter in the context of a Tkachuk trade.

The 1st is hard to gauge. You guys were in the Conference finals last year, have the best tender in the league, and are tracking to make the playoffs again. Too much risk to value it as anything but a late 1st, which drastically reduces the value even though it still carries the sticker shock of a 1st.

You want to bring McDavid in to the conversation? Start by doubling my proposed trade return.

Your conjecture about Tkachuk's intentions are irrelevant unless they become fact.

1. Bottom line, you overvalued BT, undervalued LaF and asked fpr too much

2. As to bold, while there is a dif betw actual and potential, that he has a nmc kicking in in July is not imaginary, that is real
like I said IF he wigs out w/this new power, it is a prob for whoever holds his contract
As such, any suitor for BT who would then be holding that contract must assess risk, and whether or not to make it a factor in any negotiation

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

1. Bottom line, you overvalued BT, undervalued LaF and asked fpr too much

2. As to bold, while there is a dif betw actual and potential, that he has a nmc kicking in in July is not imaginary, that is real
like I said IF he wigs out w/this new power, it is a prob for whoever holds his contract
As such, any suitor for BT who would then be holding that contract must assess risk, and whether or not to make it a factor in any negotiation

1. Hence our disagreement. I would say the opposite. Laf has a lot to prove yet, and Brady is an all-star add right now. I think that matters. I also think you're overvaluing a middle six and a late 1st addition in the context of a deal like this, and which team appears more motivated to make the deal, if it were to happen now.

2. You're right about the NMC but you still conjected made up dialogue about him to make it sound worse (and Zib, but that's irrelevant here). This matters when the time comes if he makes those demands, but you don't crater the value anticipating that. The NYR of all teams aren't going in to it with this concern and any team making the deal is getting his blessing before the league call. They aren't trading him to Columbus or Winnipeg.

This is all moot now because he isn't being traded in season and your value assessment seems predicated on worst case scenario that has yet to happen, if at all. The Senators also wouldn't be in a vacuum negotiating with 1 team. Tkachuk is a desirable player, especially at his salary in a rising cap environment and basically entering his prime for any team that would be acquiring him. On pace for 40 goals this year after 3 straight 30 increases of 30, 35, 37. If NYR wanted to make the trade right now today with no trade request from Chuck, ya, I think I'm being reasonable. The Senators aren't trading their captain without a trade demand for mainly 1 guy that can't fill his shows right now, nor for a collection of non needle movers.