Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part XI

[bicboi64]

For anyone actually interested, here’s an article about Hoffman after the trade, with some opinions on him and his fiancé just to perhaps even the record a bit.

Mike Hoffman says he wasn't bad dressing-room guy in Ottawa, look forward to life as a Florida Panther

When the Ottawa Senators traded Erik Karlsson to San Jose, one of the conditions of the agreement was that the Sharks couldn’t turn around and send him to a team in…

torontosun.com

Hoffman, his gf and one of Florida's coaches at the time think he's fine, and why would they have no reason to think otherwise? None of them were remotely associated or possibly even acquainted with Hoffman's partner at the time.

Hoffman's agent even said that he feels the issue is with EK's wife and Hoffman's gf, instead of the players themselves. I might say that Hoffmans' gf looks more guilty, but that doesn't mean anything. I don't know what happened there and doesn't give me, or anyone to credibly say Hoffman or EK are crap leaders because of it.

What's Hoffman or EK supposed to do? Leave their significant other in that situation?

The team imploded because it was poorly built, not because EK decided to engage in Mortal Kombat with Hoffman, and it doesn't make EK any less of a great leader.

 

[JD1]

Here's all you need to know about the EK Hoffman drama. The first time they met in an environment where one could beat the snot out of the other without being charged with assault, it was Hoffman looking to initiate a fight to defend his honour against EK's allegations not EK looking to initiate a fight to defend having been wronged.

That to me tells the entire story

 

[Adrianopolous]

@Ice-Tray Nice that you know the exact right way to act and process emotion after not only losing a child but being harassed about it afterwards.

Rest of us are mere humans.

Also that stuff didn't really break the team. What broke the team was Dorion being a terrible GM and Melnyk a terrible owner.

Seeing Ice tray getting cooked is a nice way to start my Friday

 

[Tuna99]

Norris: improved defensively under DJ.
Stutzle: improved defensively under DJ.
Sanderson: developing really well under DJ.
Brady: needs a coach to challenge him to be better.

It's almost comical how easily some of you let these guys off the hook for their negative qualities.

Wait, so your saying hockey players that have been improving at hockey since they were 6 years old and got drafted before they even knew who DJ Smith was now owe their talents and hard work to DJ Smith?

They are here to win, all of them. They aren’t improving as a team - being talented is one thing, being a winning team is a completely other thing and DJ Smtih and his players suck at that.

Individually everyone might be improving, collectively they are the 8 worse team in the NHL. 24 other teams (one of them only around for 120 total NHL games) are all doing better.

DJ Smith has been here for 4 years and has 100 wins - that’s failure for you

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Karlsson probably wasn't the perfect captain. He is a big personality and, honestly, the big personality Scandinavians I've known all took me a longer than normal time to "figure out". Doesn't mean they are bad guys, a lot of them were awesome guys and good friends, but they had a flamboyance and cockiness that, at first, rubbed me the wrong way. Obviously this is a huge, huge generalization.

That said, even Alfie wasn't the perfect captain. He could be too deadpan, too blunt, too fatalistic, and at other times, too reserved. I am sure Brady has shortcomings, too... will guys like Chabot, Debrincat, Batherson, and Norris ever view him as an "authority" rather than a buddy? Can he turn off the jokester aspect of his personality when he needs to, and keep it that way? I'm grasping at straws here, but ultimately no captain is perfect. Hell, even "Captain Perfect" turned a blind eye to a sexual assault on a teammate by a staff member. Steve Yzerman spent the first 2/5ths of his career as an elite offensive player with a lot of bad habits. Mark Messier was one of the worst captains of all time in Vancouver. Mario Lemieux couldn't always understand the fact that he wasn't human... he didn't need to devote himself to fitness. He didn't need to get pushed by his coach. I am sure there are times he set a shitty example as a result.

Karlsson wasn't perfect, but he is a once in a generation player and that alone gave him credibility as a captain. He had Alfie as a mentor and a friend. He is probably not the type of guy I would maintain a longterm friendship with, personally, but I never had that extra gear as an athlete, I never had that drive to be the best and to dominate... I just played sports because I enjoyed them and I got better because I played a lot. Any of us pretending to understand what goes into being an NHL captain are probably fooling ourselves.

I could go on and on, but I won't because it's pointless. I think we well past that point with discussing Karlsson.

Honestly, I was hoping to read some interesting thoughts on Brady in this thread...

 

[Ice-Tray]

Here's all you need to know about the EK Hoffman drama. The first time they met in an environment where one could beat the snot out of the other without being charged with assault, it was Hoffman looking to initiate a fight to defend his honour against EK's allegations not EK looking to initiate a fight to defend having been wronged.

That to me tells the entire story

Pretty much. The fact that they sat back after all the damage to the Hoffman’s was done, didn’t bother to either show the proof that they had to support their claims, or step up and admit that maybe they made a mistake, tells me a lot about the situation as well. In the end one side was vilified and run out of town with zero evidence brought forth.

The fact that this became a huge lockerroom issue to begin with, again, with full denials and zero evidence, speaks for itself in my opinion.

We don’t seem to be able to have a discussion or be critical of our glorious hero in here is my take away. Everything and everyone else is fair game for endless criticism though

Seeing Ice tray getting cooked is a nice way to start my Friday

This tells me that you also didn’t read the article. The whole thing is actually about the lengths the Hoffman’s went to to try and show their innocence. I have no idea why he posted it to support his position, because it doesn’t.

You really should go an read the article that buddy posted because the whole thing actually supports my position on the issue.

You can still try and diss me, but secretly it’s best if you try and gather the actual information and think for yourself.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Karlsson probably wasn't the perfect captain. He is a big personality and, honestly, the big personality Scandinavians I've known all took me a longer than normal time to "figure out". Doesn't mean they are bad guys, a lot of them were awesome guys and good friends, but they had a flamboyance and cockiness that, at first, rubbed me the wrong way. Obviously this is a huge, huge generalization.

That said, even Alfie wasn't the perfect captain. He could be too deadpan, too blunt, too fatalistic, and at other times, too reserved. I am sure Brady has shortcomings, too... will guys like Chabot, Debrincat, Batherson, and Norris ever view him as an "authority" rather than a buddy? Can he turn off the jokester aspect of his personality when he needs to, and keep it that way? I'm grasping at straws here, but ultimately no captain is perfect. Hell, even "Captain Perfect" turned a blind eye to a sexual assault on a teammate by a staff member. Steve Yzerman spent the first 2/5ths of his career as an elite offensive player with a lot of bad habits. Mark Messier was one of the worst captains of all time in Vancouver. Mario Lemieux couldn't always understand the fact that he wasn't human... he didn't need to devote himself to fitness. He didn't need to get pushed by his coach. I am sure there are times he set a shitty example as a result.

Karlsson wasn't perfect, but he is a once in a generation player and that alone gave him credibility as a captain. He had Alfie as a mentor and a friend. He is probably not the type of guy I would maintain a longterm friendship with, personally, but I never had that extra gear as an athlete, I never had that drive to be the best and to dominate... I just played sports because I enjoyed them and I got better because I played a lot. Any of us pretending to understand what goes into being an NHL captain are probably fooling ourselves.

I could go on and on, but I won't because it's pointless. I think we well past that point with discussing Karlsson.

Honestly, I was hoping to read some interesting thoughts on Brady in this thread...

Personally I don’t think a generational player makes you a great captain it makes you a great hockey player on the ice.

Having friends doesn’t make you a great leader, even if you have a friend who is a great leader. This should be obvious by simply looking around at our own friends. It’s not like all the best leaders just hang out together leaving the rest of us to wallow with each other lol. It also doesn’t mean that if EK wasn’t one of our best captains, that he has to be a shit person.

No one would argue that Spezza was a great captain either, and he seems to be a great guy with an awesome hockey mind. He’s also friends with Alfie….

Anyways, good morning to all, I’ll move on back to Brady now. Good game last night, seemed to be more engaged in the D zone, though it does look like his role is to be ready to blow the zone for stretch passses.

 

[Dionysus]

Nice game by Brady last. Nothing fancy, but got to the net and did some work below the goal line.

 

[bicboi64]

Pretty much. The fact that they sat back after all the damage to the Hoffman’s was done, didn’t bother to either show the proof that they had to support their claims, or step up and admit that maybe they made a mistake, tells me a lot about the situation as well. In the end one side was vilified and run out of town with zero evidence brought forth.

The fact that this became a huge lockerroom issue to begin with, again, with full denials and zero evidence, speaks for itself in my opinion.

We don’t seem to be able to have a discussion or be critical of our glorious hero in here is my take away. Everything and everyone else is fair game for endless criticism though

This tells me that you also didn’t read the article. The whole thing is actually about the lengths the Hoffman’s went to to try and show their innocence. I have no idea why he posted it to support his position, because it doesn’t.

You really should go an read the article that buddy posted because the whole thing actually supports my position on the issue.

Thinking that everyone that messaged Hoffman's gf to leave the Karlsson's alone being just friends supporting friends is too simplistic. Overlooking that and thinking Karlsson just started fights in the locker room screams of an unreasonable bias against him.

It was a complex situation where we don't know what happened. I don't use it to judge either Hoffman or Karlsson in a negative light, especially their leadership given how unprecedented a situation like miscarriage + multiple spouses feuding is in this league.

If I want to judge leaders of this team, I simply look at what teammates, colleagues, and management have to say about them and based off that alone.

 

[Answer]

Karlsson probably wasn't the perfect captain. He is a big personality and, honestly, the big personality Scandinavians I've known all took me a longer than normal time to "figure out". Doesn't mean they are bad guys, a lot of them were awesome guys and good friends, but they had a flamboyance and cockiness that, at first, rubbed me the wrong way. Obviously this is a huge, huge generalization.

That said, even Alfie wasn't the perfect captain. He could be too deadpan, too blunt, too fatalistic, and at other times, too reserved. I am sure Brady has shortcomings, too... will guys like Chabot, Debrincat, Batherson, and Norris ever view him as an "authority" rather than a buddy? Can he turn off the jokester aspect of his personality when he needs to, and keep it that way? I'm grasping at straws here, but ultimately no captain is perfect. Hell, even "Captain Perfect" turned a blind eye to a sexual assault on a teammate by a staff member. Steve Yzerman spent the first 2/5ths of his career as an elite offensive player with a lot of bad habits. Mark Messier was one of the worst captains of all time in Vancouver. Mario Lemieux couldn't always understand the fact that he wasn't human... he didn't need to devote himself to fitness. He didn't need to get pushed by his coach. I am sure there are times he set a shitty example as a result.

Karlsson wasn't perfect, but he is a once in a generation player and that alone gave him credibility as a captain. He had Alfie as a mentor and a friend. He is probably not the type of guy I would maintain a longterm friendship with, personally, but I never had that extra gear as an athlete, I never had that drive to be the best and to dominate... I just played sports because I enjoyed them and I got better because I played a lot. Any of us pretending to understand what goes into being an NHL captain are probably fooling ourselves.

I could go on and on, but I won't because it's pointless. I think we well past that point with discussing Karlsson.

Honestly, I was hoping to read some interesting thoughts on Brady in this thread...

Yeah no one's perfect. The only perfect one is Tkachuk. We get it

 

[Ice-Tray]

Thinking that everyone that messaged Hoffman's gf to leave the Karlsson's alone being just friends supporting friends is too simplistic. Overlooking that and thinking Karlsson just started fights in the locker room screams of an unreasonable bias against him.

It was a complex situation where we don't know what happened. I don't use it to judge either Hoffman or Karlsson in a negative light, especially their leadership given how unprecedented a situation like miscarriage + multiple spouses feuding is in this league.

If I want to judge leaders of this team, I simply look at what teammates, colleagues, and management have to say about them and based off that alone.

Haha! Alright alright, I get what you’re saying and you’ve made a good case for your position. I don’t look at things quite the way you do because hockey guys tend to say the same things over and over so I look at the subtext and things that relate to leadership of the room.

Bias? Well, I think you’re a fanboy and you think I’m a hater so even Steven I guess!

The specific other wives messages were absolutely sent as support, I remember very clearly at the time. This was when the allegations and restraining order stuff came out and folks were rallying around the Karlssons, and assuming that Caryk (sp) was guilty.

When asked at the time when the Hoffman’s were attempting to defend their reputation, no evidence was offered up from anyone, though it didn’t matter as the damage was done socially. Consider that we’re talking about 1000’s of hate messages, that’s diabolical, not a wife spat. Hoffman’s fiancé did start getting hate messages and death threats alledgedly though. What a mess regardless, social media sucks! The way the situation played out left a bad taste for me.

I think EK dealt with the situation extremely poorly.

I understand that I may stand alone in my views on how shitty that situation wound up, along with the long reaching repercussions, but so be it

To be clear, I don’t also agree that this situation is unprecedented in an NHL lockeroom at all in terms of emotional severity or beef between players.

But… We have both had our say, and I understand where your perspective comes from. I’m not going to adopt yours, any more than you’ll adopt mine, but I have enjoyed the back and forth and hope that I haven’t offended you (too much ).

 

[OD99]

This is the Brady Tkachuk thread...let's give the Karlsson/Hoffman rumour mill a rest.

It was a long time ago anyway.

 

[bicboi64]

Haha! Alright alright, I get what you’re saying and you’ve made a good case for your position. I don’t look at things quite the way you do because hockey guys tend to say the same things over and over so I look at the subtext and things that relate to leadership of the room.

Bias? Well, I think you’re a fanboy and you think I’m a hater so even Steven I guess!

The specific other wives messages were absolutely sent as support, I remember very clearly at the time. This was when the allegations and restraining order stuff came out and folks were rallying around the Karlssons, and assuming that Caryk (sp) was guilty.

When asked at the time when the Hoffman’s were attempting to defend their reputation, no evidence was offered up from anyone, though it didn’t matter as the damage was done socially. Consider that we’re talking about 1000’s of hate messages, that’s diabolical, not a wife spat. Hoffman’s fiancé did start getting hate messages and death threats alledgedly though. What a mess regardless, social media sucks! The way the situation played out left a bad taste for me.

I think EK dealt with the situation extremely poorly.

I understand that I may stand alone in my views on how shitty that situation wound up, along with the long reaching repercussions, but so be it

To be clear, I don’t also agree that this situation is unprecedented in an NHL lockeroom at all in terms of emotional severity or beef between players.

But… We have both had our say, and I understand where your perspective comes from. I’m not going to adopt yours, any more than you’ll adopt mine, but I have enjoyed the back and forth and hope that I haven’t offended you (too much ).

You can put all the emoji's in as you'd like, but if you go out of your way to bash EK because the someone mentions Brady one day being a good leader like EK, you'll be called out. Not because I'm an EK fanboy, but because bs is bs. You just come across as extremely bitter about the situation and want someone to blame.

None of the examples you've brought up from Andy, Burrows, Ryan, or Meth mention anything about EK dividing anything and is your inference. Wives of players that aren't even on the Sens tried to tell Caryk to chill, loads there to presume its more than defending friends. Hoffman was traded a month after the allegations and I'm not sure the Karlsson's wanted to pursue anything further, but regardless, I can't let a situation that is unprecedented make me judge either player or take away from their character.

I don't get how you think this situation isn't unprecedented. Pronger's wife, Messier taking over the Nucks dressing room, etc... has there ever been an off ice situation as severe as alleged harassment after a miscarriage?

 

[Ice-Tray]

You can put all the emoji's in as you'd like, but if you go out of your way to bash EK because the someone mentions Brady one day being a good leader like EK, you'll be called out. Not because I'm an EK fanboy, but because bs is bs. You just come across as extremely bitter about the situation and want someone to blame.

None of the examples you've brought up from Andy, Burrows, Ryan, or Meth mention anything about EK dividing anything and is your inference. Wives of players that aren't even on the Sens tried to tell Caryk to chill, loads there to presume its more than defending friends. Hoffman was traded a month after the allegations and I'm not sure the Karlsson's wanted to pursue anything further, but regardless, I can't let a situation that is unprecedented make me judge either player or take away from their character.

I don't get how you think this situation isn't unprecedented. Pronger's wife, Messier taking over the Nucks dressing room, etc... has there ever been an off ice situation as severe as alleged harassment after a miscarriage?

Alledged, unproven, never proven. Uhg…. Yes unprecedented in its ruthless selfish stupidity.

Why would I be bitter? I simply followed the situation and felt that in the end the Hoffman’s were done dirty, and was unimpressed by the captain EK’s behaviour to put it lightly.

EK fanboys getting triggered by valid criticism is not my problem. Making excuses for shitty behaviour by sports heroes isn’t something I respect.

Anyways, I don’t care about being challenged or called out, I expect it when I post about EK, and I welcome the debate obviously or I wouldn’t bother.

In the end I was trying to exit the discussion in a friendly way, but like Burger King, have it your muther f***ing way! (Movie quote incase knickers get bunched).

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Nice game by Brady last. Nothing fancy, but got to the net and did some work below the goal line.

I watched him closely in the D zone, no where to be found. If he shores this component of his game, he will be a top 5 winger. Caught him flying up the ice before we even had possession A LOT.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I watched him closely in the D zone, no where to be found. If he shores this component of his game, he will be a top 5 winger. Caught him flying up the ice before we even had possession A LOT.

This is why I think that’s his role in the transition scheme. I see the wingers do this constantly and then have to swing back when the puck is turned over or the battle is lost.

I would like to see that removed even if it cost us a few fast break chances per game. Maybe have wingers that are more agile play that role since so often it requires a 180 and a quick move to regain defensive posture.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Brady so far this year, broken into 10 game segments:

1-10: 6G, 9A, 15P (4-6 team record)
11-20: 2G, 6A, 8P (3-6-1)
21-30: 5G, 7A, 12P (7-2-1)
31-40: 1G, 4A, 5P (4-5-1)

Don't expect a lot of wins when the team's best players don't perform that way.

 

[bashbros32]

Brady so far this year, broken into 10 game segments:

1-10: 6G, 9A, 15P (4-6 team record)
11-20: 2G, 6A, 8P (3-6-1)
21-30: 5G, 7A, 12P (7-2-1)
31-40: 1G, 4A, 5P (4-5-1)

Don't expect a lot of wins when the team's best players don't perform that way.

Extremely streaky.

 

[jbeck5]

Its ridiculous that you think it's you're place to decide how difficult a miscarriage is for someone and how it should be dealt with dignity (whatever the fudge that means). If the Karlsson's say it's traumatic, then its traumatic for them, end of discussion. Show some godamn empathy for people geez.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that demonstrates that EK did anything to "break" the room a part. Evidence from the court proceedings already show how Hoffman's partner was someone that wasn't particularly liked and that other partners of players told her to stop trying to communicate with the Karlssons (before and after the allegations became public), if there's an outlier, its there, not with EK. There's quotes of Craig Anderson saying he was happy the situation was done and over with, but you stating EK broke the room a part is your interpretation, no body else's.



This is literally a false equivalency. I never argued this and your attempt at thinking.

Ice-tray, we've had this discussion before and we can pull receipt up if you'd like. You've made claims in the past that EK is a bad leader using metrics like "his peers don't praise him enough like Brady", and this has been called out and shown as false by me and other posters. You never handle any criticism of Tkachuk with any poise and often leave out of convo's after being shown how out of touch you are with "I guess we'll agree to disagree, this is my last post"

We get it, you don't like critiques of the captain, but let the people who want to discuss all the aspects of his game and role as a leader do so without constantly having to see your nonsensical rants about EK.

You're making it seem like miscarriages are rare. Being at the age where a lot of my close friends are trying, you'll realize that most couples experience miscarriages. That's actually why they have a "rule" to not announce it until several months because miscarriages are very common, especially in the first trimester. Most people will have dealt with a miscarriage.

 

[Micklebot]

You're making it seem like miscarriages are rare. Being at the age where a lot of my close friends are trying, you'll realize that most couples experience miscarriages. That's actually why they have a "rule" to not announce it until several months because miscarriages are very common, especially in the first trimester. Most people will have dealt with a miscarriage.

What the hell? No... Miscarriages affect 10-20% of pregnancies, not most couples. 10% is still not uncommon hence the rule, but certainly not most couples.

Most people will know someone who experienced a miscarriage which Isa very different experience than being directly affected.

There's also a discussion to be had as to whether there's a difference between late term miscarriage and 1st trimester miscarriage,

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Let's also not lose sight of the fact that miscarriages are highly personal, and it's inappropriate to tell anybody going through that trauma how they should process it.

 

[jbeck5]

What the hell? No... Miscarriages affect 10-20% of pregnancies, not most couples. 10% is still not uncommon hence the rule, but certainly not most couples.

Most people will know someone who experienced a miscarriage which Isa very different experience than being directly affected.

There's also a discussion to be had as to whether there's a difference between late term miscarriage and 1st trimester miscarriage,

"About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. But the actual number is likely higher because many miscarriages occur very early in pregnancy — before you might even know about a pregnancy."

Keep in mind, that 10-20% is not 10-20% of couples...but of pregnancies. And if the number is likely higher, then a couple who has 3 kids is likely to have had 1 miscarriage, statistically.

 

[Cosmix]

I watched him closely in the D zone, no where to be found. If he shores this component of his game, he will be a top 5 winger. Caught him flying up the ice before we even had possession A LOT.

I see that too; however, I think that is part of the HC's plan of attack as many players are doing that. I agree that Brady could be better in his own D zone. He seems to get out of position often.

 

[Answer]

Brady so far this year, broken into 10 game segments:

1-10: 6G, 9A, 15P (4-6 team record)
11-20: 2G, 6A, 8P (3-6-1)
21-30: 5G, 7A, 12P (7-2-1)
31-40: 1G, 4A, 5P (4-5-1)

Don't expect a lot of wins when the team's best players don't perform that way.

No wonder he is no where close to other team's top players

 

[Micklebot]

"About 10 to 20 percent of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. But the actual number is likely higher because many miscarriages occur very early in pregnancy — before you might even know about a pregnancy."

Keep in mind, that 10-20% is not 10-20% of couples...but of pregnancies. And if the number is likely higher, then a couple who has 3 kids is likely to have had 1 miscarriage, statistically.

Ok, so in the context of the conversation unknown miscarriages have no bearing, nobody is grieving an unknown miscarriages, nobody knows about them so you wouldn't "realize most couples experience them" either.

Just feels like you're scrambling to support the claim that dealing with a miscarriage is a regular occurrence for most couples which frankly seems way off, both in terms of anecdotally and in terms of what the evidence supports.