Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part XI

[Answer]

How to say you're a Leaf fan without actually saying it... They're the only ones who bring lame crap like that up.

assen na yo

No it is even worse! He is one of the Brady obsessed fan. Far worst than any Leaf's or even Hab's fan

 

[Answer]

I think some of you must be too young to remember the early days between 1999-2005. Senators fans were literally dying for a captain like Brady or something even relatively close back in the day, espcially after 4 straight embarrassing playoff losses to the Leafs.

Rightly or wrongly, Senators fans had so much envy towards other teams in the NHL that had gritty, average skill but can fight, gritty type captains. It was pathetic actually at one point some fans suggested trading Alfredsson for players like Ryan Smyth (Edmonton) or Craig Conroy (L.A I think).

They had such a huge inferiority complex from Gary Roberts embarrassing us that one series that they felt th solution was to "get tougher", because there was definitely no shortage of skill on those early Senators teams.

Now we have a captain that literally exemplifies character, toughness, hitting, fighting, intangibles and a decent amount of skill to go along with it, and here we have a handful of Sens fans crying about how much money he makes.

Even though I was really really young I do remember. Also the 1999-2005 Sens were the reason I actually came a hockey fan and a Sens fan

Al though you are correct, we also need to take into account that hockey was way different 20 years ago.

 

[LuckyPierre]

I think some of you must be too young to remember the early days between 1999-2005. Senators fans were literally dying for a captain like Brady or something even relatively close back in the day, espcially after 4 straight embarrassing playoff losses to the Leafs.

Keep in mind Alfredsson was the clear standout player in our first few years of playoff hockey, scoring 12 goals across the first 18 playoff games of the franchise prior to becoming captain. He scored a few hat tricks in the process and made a name for himself.

And remember, the franchise had Chara from '01 onward to act as a deterrent and set the tone with physicality. Many were underwhelmed with his play in particular for some of those losses to the Leafs. Reliable goaltending and even strength scoring were also problematic, and for Alfredsson around that time, he was far from healthy. 2004 was probably the only postseason that I was let down by his play.

Alfredsson stepped up from '06-'13 and not only drove the best line in hockey for years, but also was undeniably clutch come the postseason, going point per game 4 times.

Thrilled to have Brady wear the 'C', and fully expect the same level of impact, but when healthy, Alfredsson rarely let the team down when they needed him.

 

[TheDebater]

Keep in mind Alfredsson was the clear standout player in our first few years of playoff hockey, scoring 12 goals across the first 18 playoff games of the franchise prior to becoming captain. He scored a few hat tricks in the process and made a name for himself.

And remember, the franchise had Chara from '01 onward to act as a deterrent and set the tone with physicality. Many were underwhelmed with his play in particular for some of those losses to the Leafs. Reliable goaltending and even strength scoring were also problematic, and for Alfredsson around that time, he was far from healthy. 2004 was probably the only postseason that I was let down by his play.

Alfredsson stepped up from '06-'13 and not only drove the best line in hockey for years, but also was undeniably clutch come the postseason, going point per game 4 times.

Thrilled to have Brady wear the 'C', and fully expect the same level of impact, but when healthy, Alfredsson rarely let the team down when they needed him.

It was absolute nonsense and just disappointed and desperate fans grasping at straws. It is what I called the "Don Cherry" effect where he would go on Coach's Corner and make subtly racist comments towards European players while dedicating a whole segment fluffing up the "good ol'Canadian boy" and show a clip of a player fighting to prove his point.

Sens fans with our inferiority complex felt that our team loaded with Europeans and Russiand was too soft to ever win in the playoffs.

Ironically enough I would say we made the Stanley cup finals in 2007 with probably one of the softest teams ever. I mean we had a young Spezza and Mike Comrie as our #1 amd #2 centers and guys like Tom Preissing back on defense.

Our toughest player was arguably our goalie. Ok and Chris Neil.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Ironically enough I would say we made the Stanley cup finals in 2007 with probably one of the softest teams ever. I mean we had a young Spezza and Mike Comrie as our #1 amd #2 centers and guys like Tom Preissing back on defense.

We also had Chris Neil, Mike Fisher, Chris Phillips, Anton Volchenkov and Brian McGrattan (granted he didn't play in the playoffs) on that team, and guys like Alfredsson, Kelly, Meszaros and Schubert weren't exactly "soft".

Although I agree that we didn't lose to the Leafs all those years because we were soft. We lost because our scorers went dry against Joseph and Belfour. The narrative of "Gary Roberts beat us" is overplayed.

 

[Answer]

We also had Chris Neil, Mike Fisher, Chris Phillips, Anton Volchenkov and Brian McGrattan (granted he didn't play in the playoffs) on that team, and guys like Alfredsson, Kelly, Meszaros and Schubert weren't exactly "soft".

Although I agree that we didn't lose to the Leafs all those years because we were soft. We lost because our scorers went dry against Joseph and Belfour. The narrative of "Gary Roberts beat us" is overplayed.

Lalime

nuff said

 

[Ice-Tray]

I’d agree that there are a variety of reasons of course, but to blame our goaltending while praising theirs is to also ignore thy we were intimidated, played mentally soft, and looked defeated each year. It wasn’t a myth, you guys just forget hehe

Alfie certainly wasn’t soft, but our team physically looked a lot like a bunch of Chris Tierneys and Conor Browns skating around, but without Brown’s dogged pursuit.

It could be because we didn’t want to play a puck possession game, or a puck retrieval game back then and sort of let the play come to us, but it was miserable to watch.

It’s also possible that we could have scored more if the horses were allowed to freewheel a little bit more, and to err to the side of offence a bit over always defence.

Obviously the media blew things up a fair bit, but those teams had a knack for finding ways to lose and it wasn’t just on Lalime.

Anyways, lots of disagreement over those losses mirror the anger and frustration that we all felt year after year. I had to watch those series’ with my good friend and his dad out West as I had few new friends at the time, and they were all ‘Nucks fans. Those two where hard core leafs fans and Inhave to say thy it was traumatizing for my 20 something self lol!!!

 

[Masked]

Ironically enough I would say we made the Stanley cup finals in 2007 with probably one of the softest teams ever. I mean we had a young Spezza and Mike Comrie as our #1 amd #2 centers and guys like Tom Preissing back on defense.

Our toughest player was arguably our goalie. Ok and Chris Neil.

Fisher was the #2C on the team. He was a real softie. Just like that guy Volchenkov. But sure, go ahead and judge the team based on the sixth defenceman.

assennayo

 

[TheDebater]

Fisher was the #2C on the team. He was a real softie. Just like that guy Volchenkov. But sure, go ahead and judge the team based on the sixth defenceman.

assennayo

Having one or two "tough" players does not make the whole team tougher, or even the system they play.

Volchenkov has been mentioned twice, and just because he loved to hit did not make him a tough guy, he played tough but he was not an agitator, not even close.

 

[DueDiligence]

Anyway, clearly you have some negative thoughts towards Alfie and that's fine but Brady is leading his way now and doing a good job - we agree there.

I'm just saying Alfie didn't reach "sainthood " from the Sens until he'd been with the team almost 10 years. And as a fan you can have some negative thoughts about the player...... and still like him!

 

[Ice-Tray]

To me it’s a difference between playing team tough, vs having a few guys who have to do all the heavy lifting.

It’s also the difference in playing style.

This team has a core that all have character and grit, to go with their game, that’s good. We also play a high intensity puck pressure game, even during the PK, that requires a high work ethic as well as a high level of physicality (hitting and battling).

As a fan I really enjoy watching this type of system we play, and it will only get better as we get better. I have to say that we have great games with Nashville, both games were fun to watch.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

No it is even worse! He is one of the Brady obsessed fan. Far worst than any Leaf's or even Hab's fan

And what's wrong with supporting the players on your team?

Look, I do think Brady's contract is pretty high for what he is right now (and may be later, too), but the kid is a good player. He's likable, knows all the right things to say and do to endear himself to the fanbase, and he's ours for the rest of the decade.

Give the kid a break. He's wearing our sweater, and is our captain.

 

[Knave]

Alfie firing the puck at Niedermeyer? the "probably not" comment? Although both he and Brady held out on their contract talks he asked for a trade during negotiations. His Cup "guarantee" 2003? Look Alfie became the figure he is in Ottawa basically after the age of 30 and grew into the beloved figure he is now. Let's not forget that he had some "issues" before that. My point is that at age 22 Brady is showing a maturity beyond his years and rivals Alfie's "best years".

100% agree. The nacho eating was particularly egregious.

 

[Micklebot]

Having one or two "tough" players does not make the whole team tougher, or even the system they play.

Volchenkov has been mentioned twice, and just because he loved to hit did not make him a tough guy, he played tough but he was not an agitator, not even close.

They picked up Saprykin to be the agitator for that run, also had McaGratten, though I don't recall if he was available for the playoffs, he didn't end up playing.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I missed the game day conversation about it if there was one, but it was still pretty badass to see Brady accept fighting one handed against Nashville and king pretty well against a known fighter.

The announcers were saying that it all happened too fast for Brady to even get his other glove off, but It looked on the replay like he tells the guy that his hand is injured or something and that he’s going to leave his glove on and not throw punches with it, something to that effect. He doesn’t use it beyond holding throughout the fight.

Anyone else notice that?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I missed the game day conversation about it if there was one, but it was still pretty badass to see Brady accept fighting one handed against Nashville and king pretty well against a known fighter.

The announcers were saying that it all happened too fast for Brady to even get his other glove off, but It looked on the replay like he tells the guy that his hand is injured or something and that he’s going to leave his glove on and not throw punches with it, something to that effect. He doesn’t use it beyond holding throughout the fight.

Anyone else notice that?

Yup. That hand has been taped up for a while.. probably could not get his glove off.

 

[OD99]

Yup. That hand has been taped up for a while.. probably could not get his glove off.

Ya that's what I saw - the glove wouldn't come off - it even looked like the other guy was trying to take it off at one point and then thought better of it.

 

[Answer]

And what's wrong with supporting the players on your team?

Look, I do think Brady's contract is pretty high for what he is right now (and may be later, too), but the kid is a good player. He's likable, knows all the right things to say and do to endear himself to the fanbase, and he's ours for the rest of the decade.

Give the kid a break. He's wearing our sweater, and is our captain.

I wasn't talking about the player, I was talking his fans haha, that is why Brady sometimes is an easy target to poke fan at

oh and I don't personally have any problem with his contract

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

We also had Chris Neil, Mike Fisher, Chris Phillips, Anton Volchenkov and Brian McGrattan (granted he didn't play in the playoffs) on that team, and guys like Alfredsson, Kelly, Meszaros and Schubert weren't exactly "soft".

Although I agree that we didn't lose to the Leafs all those years because we were soft. We lost because our scorers went dry against Joseph and Belfour. The narrative of "Gary Roberts beat us" is overplayed.

Because our top scorers were soft enough to not be able to adapt and thus get shutdown when going got tough.

If you're bottom 6 is tough, it still won't matter much if your top 6 can't adapt to the other team's more physical top 6. It's why we also got destroyed against Ana. Their whole team had skill + tenacity. You need a good mix throughout your lineup. Not towards the lower end.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Because our top scorers were soft enough to not be able to adapt and thus get shutdown when going got tough.

If you're bottom 6 is tough, it still won't matter much if your top 6 can't adapt to the other team's more physical top 6. It's why we also got destroyed against Ana. Their whole team had skill + tenacity. You need a good mix throughout your lineup. Not towards the lower end.

Spezza and Heatley weren't great in the finals but I think we lost because Anaheim were simply a better team, like one of the best cup winning teams of this era.

They had better d, better g, better lines 2,3,4. A team like that would win no matter how physical the opposition top line is. And even Heatley and Spezza were going up against one of Pronger or Neidermayer at all times as well as Beauchemain and Phalsson who were playing ridiculous defensive hockey, and the Michelin man in net. One of the best defensive set ups ever was what it took to stop them.

 

[JD1]

Spezza and Heatley weren't great in the finals but I think we lost because Anaheim were simply a better team, like one of the best cup winning teams of this era.

They had better d, better g, better lines 2,3,4. A team like that would win no matter how physical the opposition top line is. And even Heatley and Spezza were going up against one of Pronger or Neidermayer at all times as well as Beauchemain and Phalsson who were playing ridiculous defensive hockey, and the Michelin man in net. One of the best defensive set ups ever was what it took to stop them.

I think we lost for a number of reasons, including in no particular order

Extended layoff between series
Different reffing from what we'd seen to that point in the playoffs
Neidermayer and Pronger as you mentioned
More jam amongst the talented players
Better goaltending in Anaheim

At the end of the day, when talent came up against jam, the jam won, which imo also was the story of 4 years of losing to Toronto

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I think we lost for a number of reasons, including in no particular order

Extended layoff between series
Different reffing from what we'd seen to that point in the playoffs
Neidermayer and Pronger as you mentioned
More jam amongst the talented players
Better goaltending in Anaheim

At the end of the day, when talent came up against jam, the jam won, which imo also was the story of 4 years of losing to Toronto

I don't agree it can be condensed into talent going up agaisnt jam.

It was talent going up against better talent. And the better talent won. Our team was outclassed.

 

[JD1]

I don't agree it can be condensed into talent going up agaisnt jam.

It was talent going up against better talent. And the better talent won. Our team was outclassed.

I don't believe I did condense it into talent going up against jam

 

[bicboi64]

I think Pronger only getting 1 game for his elbow to McAmmond was some bush league crap.

Having said that, our top line was shut down. Aside from Alfie, Spezza and Heatley couldn't get going and that ultimately hurt as the most. The one game that Heatley shows up, our depth sucked.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

I don't believe I did condense it into talent going up against jam

maybe i misunderstand but when you say "at the end of day talent came up against jam and jam won" sorta undervalues that Ducks had more talent.