Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part XI

[Wallet Inspector]

We also had Chris Neil, Mike Fisher, Chris Phillips, Anton Volchenkov and Brian McGrattan (granted he didn't play in the playoffs) on that team, and guys like Alfredsson, Kelly, Meszaros and Schubert weren't exactly "soft".

Although I agree that we didn't lose to the Leafs all those years because we were soft. We lost because our scorers went dry against Joseph and Belfour. The narrative of "Gary Roberts beat us" is overplayed.

Coaching killed us a lot of those years. 2004 in particular, where Martin decided to limit Spezza's playtime while our veteran forwards were doing jack shit.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Spezza and Heatley weren't great in the finals but I think we lost because Anaheim were simply a better team, like one of the best cup winning teams of this era.

They had better d, better g, better lines 2,3,4. A team like that would win no matter how physical the opposition top line is. And even Heatley and Spezza were going up against one of Pronger or Neidermayer at all times as well as Beauchemain and Phalsson who were playing ridiculous defensive hockey, and the Michelin man in net. One of the best defensive set ups ever was what it took to stop them.

We didn't lose though.

We got freaking squashed.

One of the best lines in history was nonexistent because they could not adapt to the physical nature of the series. In NHL HISTORY. Fisher, after Alfie, was arguably our best forward in the finals for a reason.

Yes, there were several other elements including an insane ducks team, and remarkable d duo but our superstars couldnt adapt phyiscally. Comrie and shaefar werent it too for depth no serious grit.

 

[Boud]

We didn't lose though.

We got freaking squashed.

One of the best lines in history was nonexistent because they could not adapt to the physical nature of the series. In NHL HISTORY. Fisher, after Alfie, was arguably our best forward in the finals for a reason.

Yes, there were several other elements including an insane ducks team, and remarkable d duo but our superstars couldnt adapt phyiscally. Comrie and shaefar werent it too for depth no serious grit.

Real issue is we had no depth.

It was super easy for the Ducks to contain basically all of the Sens offene during that series by shutting down the Pizza line. There was nothing after that while the Ducks had a deep team. That's basically the reason we lost. We didn't have a chance to win that series, it was all hope but most of us knew there was 0 chance we won that series unless the stars aligned and somehow the Ducks shit the bed. Our defense wasn't that good at that point either.

That defense pair of Neidermeyer and Pronger is probably the best Dpair the league has seen in the last what.. 40 years?

Physicality was not the main issue. We just had nothing to fight back against that team.

It's incredibly easy to neutralize one line in the NHL if you run a 4 line team. The Oilers have arguably the two best players in the league, both better than any member of the Pizza line, and they have no chance in the playoffs. How often have we seen teams structured like the team we had in the finals lose in the playoffs... It's always like that. Playofs are a completely different beast. You need to have depth on all positions and great goaltending, Ducks had all of it. We didn't even have close to it.

Had we run into the Ducks in the finals a couple years earlier, that would've been a better series but at that point the team was much weaker.

 

[JD1]

maybe i misunderstand but when you say "at the end of day talent came up against jam and jam won" sorta undervalues that Ducks had more talent.

I did list 5 things, including naming the two big D and better goaltending, it wasn't just jam but they had that too

 

[TheDebater]

Ironically, our best chance as an organization to win a cup was not in 2006-2007, but in 2003 had we beaten New Jersey and faced (ironically) a much much weaker Anaheim Mighty Ducks team that had simply been on a Cinderalla run.

And then again in 2016 when we should have beaten Pittsburgh in game 7 and most likely cruised to another cup against the Predators.

And if you count our dominant team in 2005-2006 when Hasek got injured and ruined our season, we arguably could have 3 cups by now.

 

[bicboi64]

Real issue is we had no depth.

It was super easy for the Ducks to contain basically all of the Sens offene during that series by shutting down the Pizza line. There was nothing after that while the Ducks had a deep team. That's basically the reason we lost. We didn't have a chance to win that series, it was all hope but most of us knew there was 0 chance we won that series unless the stars aligned and somehow the Ducks shit the bed. Our defense wasn't that good at that point either.

That defense pair of Neidermeyer and Pronger is probably the best Dpair the league has seen in the last what.. 40 years?

Physicality was not the main issue. We just had nothing to fight back against that team.

It's incredibly easy to neutralize one line in the NHL if you run a 4 line team. The Oilers have arguably the two best players in the league, both better than any member of the Pizza line, and they have no chance in the playoffs. How often have we seen teams structured like the team we had in the finals lose in the playoffs... It's always like that. Playofs are a completely different beast. You need to have depth on all positions and great goaltending, Ducks had all of it. We didn't even have close to it.

Had we run into the Ducks in the finals a couple years earlier, that would've been a better series but at that point the team was much weaker.

I'd disagree with most of your post. Our depth guys produced against Anaheim in 4 out of 5 games. It was Spezza and Heatley specifically that had choked. When your 1C and 50g scorer have a combined 3 points in a 5 games series, they're the blackhole. Guys like Fisher, Neil, Schaefer, etc...were producing, but alas...

 

[Boud]

I'd disagree with most of your post. Our depth guys produced against Anaheim in 4 out of 5 games. It was Spezza and Heatley specifically that had choked. When your 1C and 50g scorer have a combined 3 points in a 5 games series, they're the blackhole. Guys like Fisher, Neil, Schaefer, etc...were producing, but alas...

They were matched against Neidermeyer and Pronger though. As good as the pizza line was you can only do so much against these two guys. It was an impossible task honestly. They had top tier goaltending, top tier defense, and they had top tier defensive forwards. Put that against any line in the NHL today and they have no chance.

Ducks let the rest of their lineup do the job against the Sens weak depth. After they controlled the top line it was in their pocket. And when I say depth, our defensive depth wasn't finals tier at that point. We were running Philips and Volchenkov and after that it was pretty damn average.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I'd disagree with most of your post. Our depth guys produced against Anaheim in 4 out of 5 games. It was Spezza and Heatley specifically that had choked. When your 1C and 50g scorer have a combined 3 points in a 5 games series, they're the blackhole. Guys like Fisher, Neil, Schaefer, etc...were producing, but alas...

Alfie was great in that series too. But yourr absolutely right. Heatley and Spezza were totally shut down.

Of course having prime neidermayer and pronger on defense was absolutely disgusting for Anaheim

 

[TheDebater]

I'd disagree with most of your post. Our depth guys produced against Anaheim in 4 out of 5 games. It was Spezza and Heatley specifically that had choked. When your 1C and 50g scorer have a combined 3 points in a 5 games series, they're the blackhole. Guys like Fisher, Neil, Schaefer, etc...were producing, but alas...

I definitely would not call Heatley or Spezza's performance in the SCF a "choke". They played well but as others mentioned, they were simply completely outmatched and suffocated by Anaheim's defensive game.

 

[bicboi64]

They were matched against Neidermeyer and Pronger though. As good as the pizza line was you can only do so much against these two guys. It was an impossible task honestly. They had top tier goaltending, top tier defense, and they had top tier defensive forwards. Put that against any line in the NHL today and they have no chance.

Ducks let the rest of their lineup do the job against the Sens weak depth. After they controlled the top line it was in their pocket. And when I say depth, our defensive depth wasn't finals tier at that point. We were running Philips and Volchenkov and after that it was pretty damn average.

I understand the point you're making but I think the teams were a bit more closer, just excelling at different areas. Sens had much more puck movement in their game and their depth was offensively better. No line was as good as that Pahlsson line, but offensively, each of our lines were better. Redden most likely would have had a Norris nomination if he played a full season and Meszaros emerged as a legit top 4 guy that year.

 

[bicboi64]

I definitely would not call Heatley or Spezza's performance in the SCF a "choke". They played well but as others mentioned, they were simply completely outmatched and suffocated by Anaheim's defensive game.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree there. Anaheim had a really good shut down line, but our depth guys were able to squeak some goals in. 3 points for two players (1 who was a 50g guy and the other who tied the league lead in assists) in 5 games is a choke

 

[TheDebater]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree there. Anaheim had a really good shut down line, but our depth guys were able to squeak some goals in. 3 points for two players (1 who was a 50g guy and the other who tied the league lead in assists) in 5 games is a choke

You do realize the term "choked" in sports is in reference to when the better team or better players lose against teams and/or players that are considered to be less skilled or below them in the standings. Spezza and Heatley did not "choke" against the likes of Perry, Getzlaf, Selanne, Kunitz, Beauchemin, Neidermayer and Pronger...

With your logic, then the entire Sens team choked through series 1,2 and 3 and then finally woke up for the finals?

You are also giving too much credit to our "depth" guys in the finals who scored a combined FOUR goals the entire Finals.

Mike Fisher had 4 points in those 5 games...but had 10 total in the entire playoffs, nice of him to show up for the SCF while Heatley and Spezza did all the work to carry us there in the first place.

 

[bicboi64]

You do realize the term "choked" in sports is in reference to when the better team or better players lose against teams and/or players that are considered to be less skilled or below them in the standings. Spezza and Heatley did not "choke" against the likes of Perry, Getzlaf, Selanne, Kunitz, Beauchemin, Neidermayer and Pronger...

With your logic, then the entire Sens team choked through series 1,2 and 3 and then finally woke up for the finals?

You are also giving too much credit to our "depth" guys in the finals who scored a combined FOUR goals the entire Finals.

Mike Fisher had 4 points in those 5 games...but had 10 total in the entire playoffs, nice of him to show up for the SCF while Heatley and Spezza did all the work to carry us there in the first place.

We scored 11 goals in total, our depth scored more than a 3rd of our goals and did what they were supposed to do. Alfredsson scored 5 goals in the series, Redden scored another, Heatley had 1 and Spezza had 0. So yes, our depth guys + Alfie all did their part, it was literally our dynamic duo that choked.

Choking doesn't have to be solely in situation where the other team is expected to be well below them. It can also be when players simply don't show up. Heatley and Spezza were able to score against loads of defensive structures, but the only one they weren't able to was the Ducks, to me that's a choke. The Sens beat the Devils who were a better defensive team than the Ducks.

Also, with my logic, how does the Sens team choke in the first 3 series? The whole team showed up in each series. Players played their roles and got past adversities that each opponent brought forth just as they did throughout the season.

Why are you holding Mike Fisher to the same standard as the top line? He's not a top line player like Spezza and Heatley.

 

[TheDebater]

We scored 11 goals in total, our depth scored more than a 3rd of our goals and did what they were supposed to do. Alfredsson scored 5 goals in the series, Redden scored another, Heatley had 1 and Spezza had 0. So yes, our depth guys + Alfie all did their part, it was literally our dynamic duo that choked.

Choking doesn't have to be solely in situation where the other team is expected to be well below them. It can also be when players simply don't show up. Heatley and Spezza were able to score against loads of defensive structures, but the only one they weren't able to was the Ducks, to me that's a choke. The Sens beat the Devils who were a better defensive team than the Ducks.

Also, with my logic, how does the Sens team choke in the first 3 series? The whole team showed up in each series. Players played their roles and got past adversities that each opponent brought forth just as they did throughout the season.

Why are you holding Mike Fisher to the same standard as the top line? He's not a top line player like Spezza and Heatley.

We scored 11 goals in total, our depth scored more than a 3rd of our goals and did what they were supposed to do. Alfredsson scored 5 goals in the series, Redden scored another, Heatley had 1 and Spezza had 0. So yes, our depth guys + Alfie all did their part, it was literally our dynamic duo that choked.

Choking doesn't have to be solely in situation where the other team is expected to be well below them. It can also be when players simply don't show up. Heatley and Spezza were able to score against loads of defensive structures, but the only one they weren't able to was the Ducks, to me that's a choke. The Sens beat the Devils who were a better defensive team than the Ducks.

Also, with my logic, how does the Sens team choke in the first 3 series? The whole team showed up in each series. Players played their roles and got past adversities that each opponent brought forth just as they did throughout the season.

Why are you holding Mike Fisher to the same standard as the top line? He's not a top line player like Spezza and Heatley.

I would say that you are using the term "Depth scoring" pretty loosely here. In your own post, you said that out of 11 goals in the entire series, Alfredsson had 5, Redden 1, and Heatley 1. Do you realize that those are 7 goals out of 11. Where is the depth scoring here?

And I am mentioning Fisher in the same breath as Spezza and Heatley because he was our 2nd line center and expected to help with scoring goals. You are the one who implied Spezza and Heatley "choked" where as the rest of the depth guys picked up the slack...and I am telling you to objectively prove how that is true?

Spezza- 0 goals 2 points
Heatley- 1 goal 1 point

"depth scoring":

Schaefer- 0 goals 2 points
Kelly- 0 goals 2 points
Neil- 1 goal 1 point
McAmmond- 1 goal 1 point
Saprykin- 1 assist
Eaves- 1 assist
Vermette- 1 assist
Comrie- 1 assist

So now you have shifted the goal posts to say that Spezza and Heatley choked because they were the star players on the team and that they were supposed do all the scoring anyway, which goes counter to your original claim that only they choked but everyone else did their part, which is factually incorrect.

 

[bicboi64]

I would say that you are using the term "Depth scoring" pretty loosely here. In your own post, you said that out of 11 goals in the entire series, Alfredsson had 5, Redden 1, and Heatley 1. Do you realize that those are 7 goals out of 11. Where is the depth scoring here?

And I am mentioning Fisher in the same breath as Spezza and Heatley because he was our 2nd line center and expected to help with scoring goals. You are the one who implied Spezza and Heatley "choked" where as the rest of the depth guys picked up the slack...and I am telling you to objectively prove how that is true?

Spezza- 0 goals 2 points
Heatley- 1 goal 1 point

"depth scoring":

Schaefer- 0 goals 2 points
Kelly- 0 goals 2 points
Neil- 1 goal 1 point
McAmmond- 1 goal 1 point
Saprykin- 1 assist
Eaves- 1 assist
Vermette- 1 assist
Comrie- 1 assist

So now you have shifted the goal posts to say that Spezza and Heatley choked because they were the star players on the team and that they were supposed do all the scoring anyway, which goes counter to your original claim that only they choked but everyone else did their part, which is factually incorrect.

Its not shifting goal posts to say that Spezza & Heatley choked as the star players. Star players have a different set of responsibilities than the depth guys. Star players, in Ottawa's case, offensively gifted elite talents like Heatley and Spezza, are responsible for scoring more than the depth guys like Schaefer, Kelly, Neil, McAmmond, Saprykin, Eaves, Vermetter, Comrie.

Look at what you posted, its supporting my argument. Aside from Alfie, out elite scoring players had 3 points. The depth guys had much more. The depth guys did their job, but also performed offensively as well, unlike Spezza & Heatley. My original point was, out depth guys produced against Anaheim, our stars Heatley and Spezza did not. The only star who did was Alfie, who literally carried the offensive load.

If you'd rather me say "Spezza and Heatley didn't show up offensively" instead of choked, you can picture that, but its the same as them choking to me

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

only watched the 3rd but wow brady was beasting. That 2nd goal was some real captain shit.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

 

[Bileur]

Brady is going to be such a beast at 25 it’s going to be amazing. The best part is how funny it will be to see all the « hur durr 8 million for a 4th liner » people’s minds be blown.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Great game by Tkachuk. Played his heart out and that last goal was gorgeous.

 

[OD99]

He may get to 30/35 this year which many would have predicted only happening in good circumstances but this year has been anything but ideal.

If he continues to improve his shot so he is beating them from the outside more and we get a full season of him with Norris and Batherson he may scare 40 goals.

 

[cudi]

beauty goal

 

[bicboi64]

Hope he can go on a heater and hit 30g (steal some away from Norris so his contract stays low lol)

 

[Zorf]

And to think that I was hoping the Sens would draft Zadina.

 

[NyQuil]

And to think that I was hoping the Sens would draft Zadina.

You're not the only one!

 

[JD1]

I'd like to see Brady hit 30