Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part XI

[Micklebot]

lets be real, if Alfredsson or Spezza or Karlsson played d or acted like Brady throwing temper tantrums or sat out for a contract after a 50 point season and implicated the captaincy into it they would be ripped apart. and rightfully so.

And thats WHILE they were winning and leading budget teams to playoffs.

the standards for this team are in the gutter.

You are aware Alfredsson sat out for his contract in 97 right? And held out again from training camp in 2001 to get a contract? Or that Spezza and Karlsson where heavily criticised for their defensive play, right?

It's almost like you aren't able to be consistent with your standards.

 

[Micklebot]

The flyers were not a bottom feeder when Giroux was captain. When he had that incident they were a playoff team

That somehow changes things? Weird.

 

[bicboi64]

You are aware Alfredsson sat out for his contract in 97 right? And held out again from training camp in 2001 to get a contract? Or that Spezza and Karlsson where heavily criticised for their defensive play, right?

It's almost like you aren't able to be consistent with your standards.

You're being disingenuous.

Brady in sat out before his contract extension and then got the C that same season. In no way was he deserving of the C at the time but he got it because of the apparent leadership he showed during some tank years.

Did Alfie become captain right after his contract negotiations? Did he miss actual regular season games? Did Alfie have a body of work in the NHL to even warrant an extended contract negotiation, yes he did, because he showed he could perform on every end of the ice, had hardware, and did it on merit alone. It took 5 years before Alfie got the C.

It's not being inconsistent with standards, it's recognizing the context in which they became captains. For all their warts, they were good enough players to be captain, had some body of work to justify any of their contract issues, and had vets around them to mitigate maturity issues.

Oh and EK and Spezza could drag this team to victory despite their D issues. We're talking about a generational D and an elite IC that can outscore their flaws, vs mid tier top line winger who doesn't have any measure of on ice success aside leading the league in hits to make up for the flaws in his game.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

You are aware Alfredsson sat out for his contract in 97 right? And held out again from training camp in 2001 to get a contract? Or that Spezza and Karlsson where heavily criticised for their defensive play, right?

It's almost like you aren't able to be consistent with your standards.

yea problem was alfredsson was grossly underpaid.

to put it into context. Brady sat out and asked for more money off his 50 point season than karlsson did after his norris win, the youngest winner in 30 years.

Karlsson and Spezza got heavily criticized for defensive play that was much much better than Brady. and thats WHILE consistently winning the team games.

 

[Micklebot]

You're being disingenuous.

Brady in sat out before his contract extension, and then got the C that same season. In no way was he deserving of the C at the time but he got it because of the apparent leadership he showed during some tank years.

Did Alfie become captain right after his contract negotiations? Did he miss actual regular season games? Did Alfie have a body of work in the NHL to even warrant an extended contract negotiation, yes he did, because he showed he could perform on every end of the ice, had hardware, and did it on merit alone. It took 5 years before Alfie got the C.

It's not being inconsistent with standards, it's recognizing the context in which they became captains. For all their warts, they were good enough players to be captain, had some body of work to justify any of their contract issues, and had vets around them to mitigate maturity issues.

He was considered a leading candidate for the captaincy well before he held out, who's being disingenuous now?

The year he held out, he had three seasons under his belt, two of which he lead the team in pts and was a leader on the ice and off it, Alfredsson had 4 seasons under his belt when he was made captain, what a huge gap in the body of work. how quickly people forget when they have their pitchforks out.

Yes, Alfredsson missed games in 97, more than Brady actually, not getting into the lineup until game 7 of the season. In 2001, the second time he held out, though this time as captain, he was signed prior to the first reg season I'll give you that.

There was a vacancy for the captain position when Brady got it, no vacancy existed when Alfredsson held out, it's not really apples to apples, the context is certainly different, but to argue Brady was undeserving at the time is re-writing history.

It's frigging embarrassing how quick some fans have turned on Brady, probably the same ones that wanted to ship out Alfredsson for Conroy.

 

[Senovision]

All the Brady haters are just looking for a scapegoat.

 

[Micklebot]

yea problem was alfredsson was grossly underpaid.

to put it into context. Brady sat out and asked for more money off his 50 point season than karlsson did after his norris win, the youngest winner in 30 years.

Karlsson and Spezza got heavily criticized for defensive play that was much much better than Brady. and thats WHILE consistently winning the team games.

Context would be understanding how the league has changed wrt to contracts since the cap was introduced, that the cap is significantly higher than when Karlsson signed that deal or how the way the league compensates players has continued to tilt towards bigger contracts at younger ages since the Matthews signing.

 

[Adrianopolous]

That somehow changes things? Weird.

Yes because people are way more forgiving when you are creating success

 

[Micklebot]

Yes because people are way more forgiving when you are creating success

so it has nothing to do with the players in question, just your emotional state. Gotcha.

 

[bicboi64]

He was considered a leading candidate for the captaincy well before he held out, who's being disingenuous now?

The year he held out, he had three seasons under his belt, two of which he lead the team in pts and was a leader on the ice and off it, Alfredsson had 4 seasons under his belt when he was made captain, what a huge gap in the body of work. how quickly people forget when they have their pitchforks out.

Yes, Alfredsson missed games in 97, more than Brady actually, not getting into the lineup until game 7 of the season. In 2001, the second time he held out, though this time as captain, he was signed prior to the first reg season I'll give you that.

There was a vacancy for the captain position when Brady got it, no vacancy existed when Alfredsson held out, it's not really apples to apples, the context is certainly different, but to argue Brady was undeserving at the time is re-writing history.

It's frigging embarrassing how quick some fans have turned on Brady, probably the same ones that wanted to ship out Alfredsson for Conroy.

Criticism of Tkachuk as captain isn't based on one single factor, its a multitude of factors that he doesn't meet. I'm calling your post disingenuous because the way its written makes it seem as though criticism of him is fickle or something random or shallow. It's not calling for him to be traded right now because of some vendetta, it's commenting on how the C feels rushed for him.

Brady leads the team in points during a rebuild with 45 and 36 points, which on paper is fantastic for a young forward. When you take a step back and see how he fared in comparison to his peers, it's not like he dominated offensively or established himself as anything extraordinary. Even the 'leader on and off the ice'. He was/is a popular name, is loud and recognizable, but aside from having an A, it is hard to even measure how anyone can be a leader 3 seasons into their career. We are severely overrating his start to his career here.

Look at when Alfie sat out and when Brady sat out. Our management was notorious for underpaying performing players. Look at what Alfie was demanding considering what was happening with Yashin, management had set a precedent of allowing players to sit out because of them previously readjusting salaries for players (look at Yashin and Daigle). When Alfie got the C, it was because some of his on-ice play and hardware warranted it some semblance of consideration, on top of Yashin being a dick.

When it comes to on-ice play, history in the league, and comparison to his peers, when you look at the C being given to Brady, it's such a weak case.

I personally wanted Chabot as captain, but I acknowledge I would've been wrong. Chabot and Brady were just more tenured than any other candidate, but both were bad options. They should have just rolled with 3 A's the way the Leafs did with their young guys, and let the season roll out after a roster with some more established NHL presence (Cat and Giroux) and then hand it out.

And no, I'm not turning on Brady. Yes, I wanted other players over him on draft day but I've happily eaten crow watching him grow, but never wanted him as C and will critique him like I do every other player. I'm too young to even remember the Alfie vs Conroy lmao as I only watched games and didn;t have internet at the time.

 

[Adrianopolous]

so it has nothing to do with the players in question, just your emotional state. Gotcha.

Giroux was also a much better offensive player at the same age than Brady, so yes definitely the player in question as well

 

[Relapsing]

All the Brady haters are just looking for a scapegoat.

I think it's more that people are looking for reasons to understand why this team seems incapable of improving as a group. Calling them haters is an overly simplistic take.

Captains, for better or worse, become a focal point when a Team hasn't made the next step.

Is Brady a great player? Yes. Does he still leave something to be desired? Sometimes, yes.

This thread has a lot of absolutist takes, when reality is always more nuanced. A easy example is people saying Brady never takes a night off, which IMO is simply not the case. He's on more than he's off, but I've absolutely witnessed games where he was pretty invisible or not playing the way he should be. But on the whole, yes, you can see that he drags the rest of the team with him.

Such is the way of things. No one on this team is immune from criticism, because they collectively have not gotten it done, and there's no one player to blame.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Context would be understanding how the league has changed wrt to contracts since the cap was introduced, that the cap is significantly higher than when Karlsson signed that deal or how the way the league compensates players has continued to tilt towards bigger contracts at younger ages since the Matthews signing.

pretty sure Brady's contract took up more percentage of the cap than Karlsson's did. so relatively Brady asked for more money.

and cmon we're comparing a 21 year old PPG Norris winner who was top 10 in league scoring vs a player who had not even played to a 1st line level. and the 50 point player is the one sitting out and making the training camp a circus.

that Brady contract opened the floodgates for these players to chase points and the money instead of playing to win.

but hey at least they can pat themselves on the back for securing the bag so the room is still happy despite all the losing.

great leadership, great room.

 

[bicboi64]

pretty sure Brady's contract took up more percentage of the cap than Karlsson's did. so relatively Brady asked for more money.

and cmon we're comparing a 21 year old PPG Norris winner who was top 10 in league scoring vs a player who had not even played to a 1st line level. and the 50 point player is the one sitting out and making the training camp a circus.

that Brady contract opened the floodgates for these players to chase points and the money instead of playing to win.

but hey at least they can pat themselves on the back for securing the bag so the room is still happy despite all the losing.

great leadership, great room.

For what it's worth, I'm all about players securing the bag and their future. At the end of the day, its a game and they need to be compensated for putting their bodies out there. But if they're going to demand the big bucks, they need to produce like their cap hit. Especially if they've already established the bar (like Tkachuk did last year with his scoring).

 

[Micklebot]

Criticism of Tkachuk as captain isn't based on one single factor, its a multitude of factors that he doesn't meet. I'm calling your post disingenuous because the way its written makes it seem as though criticism of him is fickle or something random or shallow. It's not calling for him to be traded right now because of some vendetta, it's commenting on how the C feels rushed for him.

Brady leads the team in points during a rebuild with 45 and 36 points, which on paper is fantastic for a young forward. When you take a step back and see how he fared in comparison to his peers, it's not like he dominated offensively or established himself as anything extraordinary. Even the 'leader on and off the ice'. He was/is a popular name, is loud and recognizable, but aside from having an A, it is hard to even measure how anyone can be a leader 3 seasons into their career. We are severely overrating his start to his career here.

Look at when Alfie sat out and when Brady sat out. Our management was notorious for underpaying performing players. Look at what Alfie was demanding considering what was happening with Yashin, management had set a precedent of allowing players to sit out because of them previously readjusting salaries for players (look at Yashin and Daigle). When Alfie got the C, it was because some of his on-ice play and hardware warranted it some semblance of consideration, on top of Yashin being a dick.

When it comes to on-ice play, history in the league, and comparison to his peers, when you look at the C being given to Brady, it's such a weak case.

I personally wanted Chabot as captain, but I acknowledge I would've been wrong. Chabot and Brady were just more tenured than any other candidate, but both were bad options. They should have just rolled with 3 A's the way the Leafs did with their young guys, and let the season roll out after a roster with some more established NHL presence (Cat and Giroux) and then hand it out.

And no, I'm not turning on Brady. Yes, I wanted other players over him on draft day but I've happily eaten crow watching him grow, but never wanted him as C and will critique him like I do every other player. I'm too young to even remember the Alfie vs Conroy lmao as I only watched games and didn;t have internet at the time.

The problem is much of the criticism it is fans being fickle, it's mostly the result of the team losing. That's just a fact. If we got goaltending, and the team was in the playoffs right now, would anybody be calling Brady a bad captain? Highly unlikely. Just like how Alfredsson was called a bad captain by many for the years we couldn't win in the playoffs, but after run to the SCF suddenly he's a great captain, was he a bad choice for captain?

People are looking for a scapegoat, that much is pretty damn clear, it happens with every team that's losing. Doesn't make it right, there's a reason why Staios laughed off the idea of trading Brady and said we are building around him, because the guys around the team and in the room have a much better idea of the kind of leadership he's displaying than fans that complain about him standing up for his coach, believing in his teammates, and wearing his heart on his sleeve.

 

[PlayOn]

Brady was a bad draft pick, until he wasn’t.
Then he had a bad contract, until he didn’t.
And now he’ll be a bad captain, until he’s not, apparently.

You can be a good leader and still have flaws and room for growth. Lots of focus on the three or four times he behaved immaturely and none on the countless things he does for the community and for the team.

 

[Micklebot]

pretty sure Brady's contract took up more percentage of the cap than Karlsson's did. so relatively Brady asked for more money.

You should look it up, maybe instead of pretty sure, you'd be able to stick to the facts.

and cmon we're comparing a 21 year old PPG Norris winner who was top 10 in league scoring vs a player who had not even played to a 1st line level. and the 50 point player is the one sitting out and making the training camp a circus.

that Brady contract opened the floodgates for these players to chase points and the money instead of playing to win.

but hey at least they can pat themselves on the back for securing the bag so the room is still happy despite all the losing.

great leadership, great room.

This is kind of comical because Karlsson was the embodiment of chasing points as far as criticisms goes, and had the I'm going to get paid what I'm worth line,

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

For what it's worth, I'm all about players securing the bag and their future. At the end of the day, its a game and they need to be compensated for putting their bodies out there. But if they're going to demand the big bucks, they need to produce like their cap hit. Especially if they've already established the bar (like Tkachuk did last year with his scoring).

Same. They are within their full right to pursue their bag. but when you sit out for an overpay you better do all you can to help the team to win or else you will be ridiculed.

Starting with Brady the players who got paid do not do all they can to win. It is the #1 problem on this team and why we aren't good enough to challenge for playoffs despite being capped out and having the most talent on a Sens team in almost 15 years.

 

[bicboi64]

The problem is much of the criticism it is fans being fickle, it's mostly the result of the team losing. That's just a fact. If we got goaltending, and the team was in the playoffs right now, would anybody be calling Brady a bad captain? Highly unlikely. Just like how Alfredsson was called a bad captain by many for the years we couldn't win in the playoffs, but after run to the SCF suddenly he's a great captain, was he a bad choice for captain?

People are looking for a scapegoat, that much is pretty damn clear, it happens with every team that's losing. Doesn't make it right, there's a reason why Staios laughed off the idea of trading Brady and said we are building around him, because the guys around the team and in the room have a much better idea of the kind of leadership he's displaying than fans that complain about him standing up for his coach, believing in his teammates, and wearing his heart on his sleeve.

Not speaking for anyone besides myself. If we're in a playoff spot because of better goaltending and he's still not scoring, but his overall game play is contributing to wins, sure we'd be foolish for critiquing him because there's growth there. But based on his on-ice play, he's not doing any of that. There's a marginal increase in his D (along with the whole team), he's not the offensive threat he was the last two years, and he provides zero value for our PK (heck even Spezza was used on the PK because of his FO ability).

Unfortunately for him, captaincy is something demonstrated by your actions and words. Alfie and EK took accountability with their words and play. Spezza didn't and its why he's the weakest C in our history. Alfie responded to criticism from the early 2000s by stepping it up a notch in the later 2000s (being the only one backchecking on the Pominville goal in 06, scoring the goal that got us to the finals, his play in the finals, leading us offensively when Spezza and Heater choked the next year, etc...) but yes, if he stayed the way he was prior to the 05 lockout, his legacy wouldn't be as well regarded.

As for the bolded, if the rest of the team is content with his leadership, blow it up. There isn't a single thing that this roster should be content with this season aside from guys like Greig and Pinto stepping it up. Tkachuk believing in the coach and current roster hasn't gotten us anywhere, so far that isn't a reason to reinforce anything positive about him as Cap.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

You should look it up, maybe instead of pretty sure, you'd be able to stick to the facts.

This is kind of comical because Karlsson was the embodiment of chasing points as far as criticisms goes, and had the I'm going to get paid what I'm worth line,

Karlsson was consistently our best player and winning games full stop and leading mediocre teams to playoffs and in the playoffs winning games. full stop.

saying he was chasing points and using it to defend Brady is wild. brady can't even brag about leading his team to meaningful regular season game let alone playoff games.

also I did check Brady did sign for greater percentage of the cap off a 50 point pace than Karlsson did off being the youngest Norris winner since Orr and Potvin.

 

[bicboi64]

You should look it up, maybe instead of pretty sure, you'd be able to stick to the facts.

This is kind of comical because Karlsson was the embodiment of chasing points as far as criticisms goes, and had the I'm going to get paid what I'm worth line,

After he has established himself as literally the best D, dragged us into the playoffs, etc.. You kinda get to be an arrogant SoB if you're good enough on ice.

EK during his 6 year deal had a cap percentage of 10.1%. He literally won the Norris trophy and got another deal.

Tkachuk's deal took up 9.8% of the cap after leading the team in scoring by a point difference and scoring at a 51 point pace during his first 3 years.

One of these two are not like the other.

Karlsson was consistently our best player and winning games full stop and leading mediocre teams to playoffs and in the playoffs winning games. full stop.

saying he was chasing points and using it to defend Brady is wild. brady can't even brag about leading his team to meaningful regular season game let alone playoff games.

also I did check Brady did sign for greater percentage of the cap off a 50 point pace than Karlsson did off being the youngest Norris winner since Orr and Potvin.

I don't think that's true. EK signed at a cap hit percentage of 10.1%, Brady's was 9.8%.

Yes its a difference between 0.3% but I would agree that Tkachuk didn't warrant anywhere near that.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

After he has established himself as literally the best D, dragged us into the playoffs, etc.. You kinda get to be an arrogant SoB if you're good enough on ice.

EK during his 6 year deal had a cap percentage of 10.1%. He literally won the Norris trophy and got another deal.

Tkachuk's deal took up 9.8% of the cap after leading the team in scoring by a point difference and scoring at a 51 point pace during his first 3 years.

One of these two are not like the other.


I don't think that's true. EK signed at a cap hit percentage of 10.1%, Brady's was 9.8%.

Yes its a difference between 0.3% but I would agree that Tkachuk didn't warrant anywhere near that.

When Brady signed the cap was 81.5 in 2021.

from copilot.

8,330,674 is approximately 10.22% of 81,500,000. To calculate this, divide 8,330,674 by 81,500,000 and multiply by 100:


81,500,0008,330,674×100≈10.22%

 

[Micklebot]

Not speaking for anyone besides myself. If we're in a playoff spot because of better goaltending and he's still not scoring, but his overall game play is contributing to wins, sure we'd be foolish for critiquing him because there's growth there. But based on his on-ice play, he's not doing any of that. There's a marginal increase in his D (along with the whole team), he's not the offensive threat he was the last two years, and he provides zero value for our PK (heck even Spezza was used on the PK because of his FO ability).

Unfortunately for him, captaincy is something demonstrated by your actions and words. Alfie and EK took accountability with their words and play. Spezza didn't and its why he's the weakest C in our history. Alfie responded to criticism from the early 2000s by stepping it up a notch in the later 2000s (being the only one backchecking on the Pominville goal in 06, scoring the goal that got us to the finals, his play in the finals, leading us offensively when Spezza and Heater choked the next year, etc...) but yes, if he stayed the way he was prior to the 05 lockout, his legacy wouldn't be as well regarded.

As for the bolded, if the rest of the team is content with his leadership, blow it up. There isn't a single thing that this roster should be content with this season aside from guys like Greig and Pinto stepping it up. Tkachuk believing in the coach and current roster hasn't gotten us anywhere, so far that isn't a reason to reinforce anything positive about him as Cap.

He's on pace for what, 37 goals? what the heck are you talking about still not scoring? Not contributing to wins? He's among the team leaders in most categories, at 5v5 (500 mins) 5h in GF%, 1st in SF%, 1st in CF%, 2nd in SCF%, 1st in HDCF%, 1st in shots, 1st in hits, 1st in goals, 1st in xG, 1st in rebounds created. He isn't why we've been losing, not by any stretch of the imagination.

His actions and words are exactly why he was a prime candidate for Captain and chosen for captain, he's been a leader on the ice and off the ice since his arrival, but people see loses and suddenly him standing up for his team is him not taking accountability.

Maybe instead of saying blow it up, ask yourself what do they know that you don't, because I have a pretty good feeling the Jacques Martin, Alfredsson, Staios, Poulin, et al would probably know a lot more about whether or not he's been a good leader than anybody on the outside looking in could possible know.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

He's on pace for what, 37 goals? what the heck are you talking about still not scoring? Not contributing to wins? He's among the team leaders in most categories, at 5v5 (500 mins) 5h in GF%, 1st in SF%, 1st in CF%, 2nd in SCF%, 1st in HDCF%, 1st in shots, 1st in hits, 1st in goals, 1st in xG, 1st in rebounds created. He isn't why we've been losing, not by any stretch of the imagination.

His actions and words are exactly why he was a prime candidate for Captain and chosen for captain, he's been a leader on the ice and off the ice since his arrival, but people see loses and suddenly him standing up for his team is him not taking accountability.

Maybe instead of saying blow it up, ask yourself what do they know that you don't, because I have a pretty good feeling the Jacques Martin, Alfredsson, Staios, Poulin, et al would probably know a lot more about whether or not he's been a good leader than anybody on the outside looking in could possible know.

the number one thing they are saying is that we need more leaders, more professionals, more vets.

aka the leadership and the room and the habits f***ing suck. and this on a team that already had Giroux and Tarasenko.

 

[Micklebot]

When Brady signed the cap was 81.5 in 2021.

from copilot.

8,330,674 is approximately 10.22% of 81,500,000. To calculate this, divide 8,330,674 by 81,500,000 and multiply by 100:


81,500,0008,330,674×100≈10.22%

From Capfriendly

Maybe don't let AI find you readily available information, especially when it didn't even get Brady's cap hit correct, using the adjusted season as opposed to his cap hit for the full value of the contract or like Cap friendly does the typical hit.