Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[hotpaws]

OEL and Tanev got too much term but you could tell from the large number of teams with cap space that this was going to be an expensive ufa season and with little in the way of draft capital or prospects to trade our options were to pay up for ufa's to fill holes or write off the year and hope next off season the prices come down .

Tre did get good deals on Domi/Benoit/Stolars and at least the 2 D he brougt in fill holes/needs so overall he's had a decent to pretty good off season .

 

[Tak7]

Liljegren played 6 of 7 games versus Boston. The one game he was taken out had nothing to do with him personally. It was because we lost game 1 and Keefe felt he needed to put Brodie in as a vet, despite the fact he stunk all year long.

The previous playoffs aren’t really relevant because they are reflective of where he was at that those moments not now.

If they had proper faith/belief in him, they wouldn't have pulled him out of the lineup in favor of someone who had really struggled for the previous year and a half.

Him coming out of the lineup for Brodie should have be viewed as a reflection of where his game is currently at - notably, someone who isn't a lock in the playoff lineup.

 

[ACC1224]

Again - my priorities & opinions aren't included in that list.

It's a catalog of their work. I might agree with everything on that list

Nothing there shows indecision or flip flopping......around and around we go.

 

[Nineteen67]

From bad to mediocre could be considered positive.

 

[hotpaws]

From bad to mediocre could be considered positive.

who'd have thought signing an overrated non need ufa center to at then the leagues highest cap hit as well as trading the majority of our 1sts/2nds for rentals wouldn't have turned out well . surly not the Dubas supporters , lol

 

[Nineteen67]

who'd have thought signing an overrated non need ufa center to at then the leagues highest cap hit as well as trading the majority of our 1sts/2nds for rentals wouldn't have turned out well . surly not the Dubas supporters , lol

The point of the article is that Dubas wasn’t great and didn’t get the job done, but this rooster looks like he’s making things worse.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Whether "the ship has sailed regarding moving Nylander to C" or not, and I don't think it has, I agree that letting Marner walk may be the best option.

The last time Nylander played C was August 9th 2020 in an elimination game during the covid play-in series. The Leafs got pumped by the Bluejackets 3-0.

In my humble opinion Nylander at the center position is dead and buried. Sadly, my memory of that game is not.

The reason we haven't seen him play C since is because:

1. He's a terrific right winger
2. He is a really poor center

 

[conFABulator]

Ok moving those two frees up $4.5M (assuming they went for picks or prospects).

Now in order to improve, you have to find 2 better players to fill their spots for significantly less than 4.5 in order to have a decent amount left to "spend" elsewhere.

There was some math that preceded this comment on an earlier post.

We take the Tavares money, pay the Woll, Knies, and McCabe raises and then remove Kampf and Jarnkrok. This is what leaves around $9M.

You have to fill those two bottom six roles from within on low dollars...Dewar, Hirvonen, Minten, Tverberg, Steeves, etc

 

[notDatsyuk]

• Wanting to keep Dubas, vs not wanting to keep Dubas just a few weeks later
• Free agency 2022 - Prioritize players with utility (Jarnkrok, ZAR, NAK)
• Trade deadline 2023 - Prioritize more players with utility (ROR, Acciari, etc)
• Free agency 2023 - Complete 180, target goals on a roster lacking goals
• Trade deadline 2024 - Complete 180 again, attempt to fix overlooked defense issues
• Free agency 2024 - Commit cap space to the blueline, on a roster lacking goals
• Liljegren - Fearful that arbitration will net him a 1 year deal that doubles his current $1.4M salary
• Also Liljegren - give him a 2 year deal that more than doubles his salary?
• Woll - express publicly your concern about his inability to stay health
• Also Woll - commit to a multi-year extension despite 0 evidence his health issue are fixed.
• "Everything is on the table, and the time for patience is over"
• Also "not really though?"
• Leafs last summer - phoned the core players and told them that they were staying
• Also Leafs last summer - shopped Nylander
• Shanahan - talks about the importance of taking less in order to win
• Also Shanahan - signs off on massive extensions
• Leafs - ample evidence that this salary structure cannot work
• Also Leafs - hand Nylander $11.5M, mid-season, instead of letting it play out.
• Shanahan - "“I’m going to be open-minded to who that person can be, I want to be open-minded to all candidates"
• Also Shanahan - hands Treliving the job without a thorough GM search
• Leafs - All in, with 1st rounders on the table every trade deadline
• Also Leafs - no interest in moving their 1st last season. Not all-in?
• Leafs - 1 series win in 5 seasons isn't good enough for Keefe to keep his job
• Also Leafs - 1 series win in a decade is good enough for Shanahan to continue keeping his.

There's no vision. No plan. No philosophy.
Just an organization that is making it up as they go. I'm sure there are other examples I could point to that have slipped my mind, but you get the general idea.

A lot of those are Dubas, who subsequently forced his own firing.

Yes, there have been a lot of changes since Dubas left, but there is consistency.

You are lumping the bad moves of a bad GM in with his successor who realized they didn't work, and are surprised that there have been changes?

 

[hotpaws]

The point of the article is that Dubas wasn’t great and didn’t get the job done, but this rooster looks like he’s making things worse.

''The Rookie'' was left with a capped out team , a weak prospect pool and missing high picks for a few years .

regardless of who we hired they wouldn't have brought a magic wand with them , my main beef with current mgmt is they didn't force JT to waive his ntc and move his overpaid ass off this team

i do like your ''Dubas wasn't great'' line , Dubas was a colossal f***ing failure and hamstrung this team for years but yeah lets shift the blame for the state this team is in on Tre for not magically adding quality players for scraps and dumps

also i have no idea how people think this roster is worse , it may not be any better but upgrading on Brodie who's play fell off a cliff a season and a half ago as well as Sammy who was terrible for large parts of the season can't make it worse

 

[4thline]

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - ?
Benoit - OEL/Hakanpaa
Liljegren

That 2nd pair isn't filled.

They don't have a viable 3C candidate internally.

Yes yes, you've chosen to ignore that OEL played reasonable amount of top pair minutes with Forsling/Montour last year, and completely written off any possibility of him taking mid pair matchups with McCabe. We went 7 with Benoit and Lyubushkin in the top 4, we've upgraded both those spots

Domi has done the job if it's offensive leaning. Holmberg is still growing as a balanced two way option. Kampf has done the job if it's defensive leaning. (but we don't have the right wings for him to do it again IMO), Minten is a darkhorse. Lots of options for Berube in the F group.

 

[Nineteen67]

''The Rookie'' was left with a capped out team , a weak prospect pool and missing high picks for a few years .

regardless of who we hired they wouldn't have brought a magic wand with them , my main beef with current mgmt is they didn't force JT to waive his ntc and move his overpaid ass off this team

i do like your ''Dubas wasn't great'' line , Dubas was a colossal f***ing failure and hamstrung this team for years but yeah lets shift the blame for the state this team is in on Tre for not magically adding quality players for scraps and dumps

Treliving accepted the job and he doesn’t get forever to fix the mistakes from the previous GM. It appears that he’s doing is exactly what he’s always done and that’s sign bad contracts.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The last time Nylander played C was August 9th 2020 in an elimination game during the covid play-in series. The Leafs got pumped by the Bluejackets 3-0.

In my humble opinion Nylander at the center position is dead and buried. Sadly, my memory of that game is not.

The reason we haven't seen him play C since is because:

1. He's a terrific right winger
2. He is a really poor center

I'm not sure why you think Nylander played centre that one game, when we had Matthews, Tavares, Kerfoot, and Spezza, but I'm sure one game is enough evidence.

The last game Tavares played at centre we lost too. In fact, Nylander had a better faceoff % in that game than Tavares.

Actually, the last time Nylander played centre was against Montreal a year later. He was the best player on the team, and had the best faceoff % of anyone who took more than one faceoff.

 

[hotpaws]

Treliving accepted the job and he doesn’t get forever to fix the mistakes from the previous GM. It appears that he’s doing is exactly what he’s always done and that’s sign bad contracts.

no one can ''fix'' the mistakes from the previous GM because no one can turn back the clock , reverse the damage and the wasted years !

the new GM is now in a race against the core's prime clock to hopefully build a good enough team around them to win a cup before they start to age out

as i said in a previous post , this offseason was going to be expensive and it was so the option were to sign players to deals that won't age well or sit tight and waste the year

i guess you missed ufa season other than want Tre did since it seems you believe there were large amount of great value deals out there that we passed on to fill our needs

 

[francis246]

''The Rookie'' was left with a capped out team , a weak prospect pool and missing high picks for a few years .

regardless of who we hired they wouldn't have brought a magic wand with them , my main beef with current mgmt is they didn't force JT to waive his ntc and move his overpaid ass off this team

i do like your ''Dubas wasn't great'' line , Dubas was a colossal f***ing failure and hamstrung this team for years but yeah lets shift the blame for the state this team is in on Tre for not magically adding quality players for scraps and dumps

also i have no idea how people think this roster is worse , it may not be any better but upgrading on Brodie who's play fell off a cliff a season and a half ago as well as Sammy who was terrible for large parts of the season can't make it worse

The Marleau contract was a nice grenade to start of Dubas tenure. Also Lou not trading JVR and Bozak for draft picks still burns my soul. We could have had multiple first rounders heading into the 2017 draft or 2018 draft.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Treliving accepted the job and he doesn’t get forever to fix the mistakes from the previous GM. It appears that he’s doing is exactly what he’s always done and that’s sign bad contracts.

The two biggest mistakes by the previous GM have NMCs that expire next year.

The Marleau contract was a nice grenade to start of Dubas tenure. Also Lou not trading JVR and Bozak for draft picks still burns my soul. We could have had multiple first rounders heading into the 2017 draft or 2018 draft.

I guess Lou didn't realized Dubas was going to screw up everything by signing Tavares.

 

[francis246]

The two biggest mistakes by the previous GM have NMCs that expire next year.


I guess Lou didn't realized Dubas was going to screw up everything by signing Tavares.

I mean, the leafs were def preparing for the Tavares signing a couple months in advance of it happening. I don’t think it was going to be a surprise to anyone. The Tavares signing from what I have heard was an ownership driven thing.

 

[Tak7]

Nothing there shows indecision or flip flopping......around and around we go.

Other than the constant ...flip-flops, change in directions, and indecision lol.

I get the sense any form of criticism of the hockey team makes you uncomfortable.

 

[hotpaws]

The Marleau contract was a nice grenade to start of Dubas tenure. Also Lou not trading JVR and Bozak for draft picks still burns my soul. We could have had multiple first rounders heading into the 2017 draft or 2018 draft.

the Marleau contract was bad but wouldn't have been an issue if Dubas didn't sign JT or had some foresight and traded Kap and Jonsson instead of being forced by his spending to trade them a year later .

i could flip a coin on whether we should have dumped JVR and Bozak instead of letting them walk , we were coming off a decade plus of ineptitude so i could see the reasoning with keeping them and making the playoffs instead being sellers

anyway Lou did leave Dubas with all our picks as well as team friendly deal like Brown/Hyman among others so they did more than even out any bad deals he left

 

[francis246]

the Marleau contract was bad but wouldn't have been an issue if Dubas didn't sign JT or had some foresight and traded Kap and Jonsson instead of being forced by his spending to trade them a year later .

i could flip a coin on whether we should have dumped JVR and Bozak instead of letting them walk , we were coming off a decade plus in ineptitude so i could see the reasoning with keeping them and making the playoffs instead being sellers

anyway Lou did leave Dubas with all our picks as well team friendly deal like Brown/Hyman among others so they did more than even out any bad deals he left

Even the Rielly and Kadri extensions at the time were really good extensions. I think moving JVR should have been a priority. He had the most value and we had a lot of wing depth in the system to potentially replace his production.

 

[ACC1224]

Other than the constant ...flip-flops, change in directions, and indecision lol.

I get the sense any form of criticism of the hockey team makes you uncomfortable.

Not at all. There are lots of things to criticize, this isn’t one of them.
I get the sense that you hate everything they do.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I mean, the leafs were def preparing for the Tavares signing a couple months in advance of it happening. I don’t think it was going to be a surprise to anyone. The Tavares signing from what I have heard was an ownership driven thing.

Where do you define 'ownership'? GM, Shanahan, Bell/Rogers BOD?

Regardless of who initiated, drove, signed off on it, it was a mistake (imo), that we have only one more year to suffer through, although the repercussions will take longer.

 

[francis246]

Where do you define 'ownership'? GM, Shanahan, Bell/Rogers BOD?

Regardless of who initiated, drove, signed off on it, it was a mistake (imo), that we have only one more year to suffer through, although the repercussions will take longer.

I would say the MLSE board. They make all the final decisions. But they were gunning after Stamkos, struck out and then wanted Tavares.

Yeah hindsight is a bitch, it was a bad signing. But I won’t pretend like I wasn’t happy as hell. Felt nice in the moment to land a big guy.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I'm not sure why you think Nylander played centre that one game, when we had Matthews, Tavares, Kerfoot, and Spezza, but I'm sure one game is enough evidence.

The last game Tavares played at centre we lost too. In fact, Nylander had a better faceoff % in that game than Tavares.

Actually, the last time Nylander played centre was against Montreal a year later. He was the best player on the team, and had the best faceoff % of anyone who took more than one faceoff.

Because I watched the game. Did you watch the game? If you did you might have some serious apprehension too.

Who the f*** knows about Keefe. Maybe his line stacking was all he did at times, but you would think all these years Toronto could have ripped through the playoffs and win cups due to no other team matching us at center.

Like why was Kampf, Accari, Kerfoot, Spezza out C when we could have had Nylander this whole time?

 

[Nineteen67]

no one can ''fix'' the mistakes from the previous GM because no one can turn back the clock , reverse the damage and the wasted years !

the new GM is now in a race against the core's prime clock to hopefully build a good enough team around them to win a cup before they start to age out

as i said in a previous post , this offseason was going to be expensive and it was so the option were to sign players to deals that won't age well or sit tight and waste the year

i guess you missed ufa season other than want Tre did since it seems you believe there were large amount of great value deals out there that we passed on to fill our needs

Maybe it can’t be fixed until the core is gone, at least that seems like it’s the case.

There wasn’t much in FA that I would have bothered with.

The two biggest mistakes by the previous GM have NMCs that expire next year.


I guess Lou didn't realized Dubas was going to screw up everything by signing Tavares.

I think the biggest mistake was abandoning the rebuild.