Tribute Brad Treliving - offseason so far

[conFABulator]

I'm assuming your talking about value of the raise here?

Because Woll's extension is $3.6M and McCabe isn't signing for $2M lol.

The Tavares money is gone.

Yes, you would only count the value of the raise in this math. We are talking about incremental available cap space on top of what is already being spent.

And yes, the Tavares money is gone with raises to those players and about $6M to spend. Move out Kampf and Jarnkrok and you have about $9M to spend.

 

[socko]

I was listening to some Steely Dan today, had me thinking about the Leafs.

Run it back, Leafs, do it again, wheel turnin' 'round and 'round
Run it back, Leafs, do it again

 

[The Masters]

 

[Gilmour1996]

Not sure I buy it. They seemed pretty decisive replacing the coach, signing players on D1 of UFA, even completing deadline deals. When there is nothing to report you got to come up with something I guess.

They may have seemed decisive about they above but I'm sure that the parameters were settled beforehand via meetings with Shanny. End of season meetings, pre-FA meetings and pre-TDL meetings. Slowly but surely we are seeing how this organization is being run, from top to bottom. It's not pretty and most of the reports point to Shanny as being a big part of the problem. I bet the GM has to raise his hand up every time he needs to go to the bathroom!

 

[Captain Crunch]

Whether "the ship has sailed regarding moving Nylander to C" or not, and I don't think it has, I agree that letting Marner walk may be the best option.

You may be right regarding Nylander, but what a hole that would then create on RW.

 

[Captain Crunch]

I don't disagree



Treliving had 7 seasons of failure before Toronto.

I think most people are willing to give him a shot but don't like what they saw in Calgary and what they are seeing currently.

What a joke!!! Considering the mess he is still trying to clean up that Shanahan has this team in, I'd say he is doing a good job so far. Dishing out all that money and NMCs to this core has continually put this team in a very tight cap crunch, making it extremely difficult to also build a strong supporting cast around them. And now it is certainly looking like Marner will not be traded due to his next contract demand and his full NMC.

Tre has improved the defense. Tanev got too long of a term, but it had to be done to keep the AAV down. But he is a top 2 RHD who blocks a ton of shots, great on the PK, and plays against the other team's best players. The good definitely outweighs the bad! Also, I believe that OEL will play on PP1 and provide some much-needed scoring from the backend.

 

[Tak7]

I consider 2nd pairing D filled, and both 2LW and 3C have viable internal candidates.

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - ?
Benoit - OEL/Hakanpaa
Liljegren

That 2nd pair isn't filled.

They don't have a viable 3C candidate internally.

 

[Fonzieleaf]

What a joke!!! Considering the mess he is still trying to clean up that Shanahan has this team in, I'd say he is doing a good job so far. Dishing out all that money and NMCs to this core has continually put this team in a very tight cap crunch, making it extremely difficult to also build a strong supporting cast around them. And now it is certainly looking like Marner will not be traded due to his next contract demand and his full NMC.

Tre has improved the defense. Tanev got too long of a term, but it had to be done to keep the AAV down. But he is a top 2 RHD who blocks a ton of shots, great on the PK, and plays against the other team's best players. The good definitely outweighs the bad! Also, I believe that OEL will play on PP1 and provide some much-needed scoring from the backend.

It's all good. With the type of game he plays, I doubt he play until he's 40. They knew what they were doing there.

 

[Tak7]

Sounds like B.S.

I mean, we've received mixed messages as fans, and they only speak to us a few times a year.

It's entirely in keeping with their behavior that other teams would find their indecisiveness to be an issue.

Not sure why you're immediate stance here is to call it BS - this sounds completely believable and reasonable at this point.

 

[ACC1224]

I mean, we've received mixed messages as fans, and they only speak to us a few times a year.

It's entirely in keeping with their behavior that other teams would find their indecisiveness to be an issue.

Not sure why you're immediate stance here is to call it BS - this sounds completely believable and reasonable at this point.

They're professionals who have been in the game for a long time, IMO it's silly to think they aren't sure of themselves and their decisions.

 

[Tak7]

They're professionals who have been in the game for a long time, IMO it's silly to think they aren't sure of themselves and their decisions.

There's overwhelming evidence that they're making this up as they go along - what gives you any sense that they are sure of themselves and their decisions?

In the past 24 months alone, they've flip-flopped so much on what they're trying to do on and off the ice.

 

[ACC1224]

There's overwhelming evidence that they're making this up as they go along - what gives you any sense that they are sure of themselves and their decisions?

In the past 24 months alone, they've flip-flopped so much on what they're trying to do on and off the ice.

'Overwhelming evidence' and 'they've flipped flopped so much' seems a little over dramatic.
Maybe I don't pay enough attention but it hardly seems wide spread. Any examples? There must be dozens of them.

 

[Tak7]

'Overwhelming evidence' and 'they've flipped flopped so much' seems a little over dramatic.
Maybe I don't pay enough attention but it hardly seems wide spread. Any examples? There must be dozens of them.

• Wanting to keep Dubas, vs not wanting to keep Dubas just a few weeks later
• Free agency 2022 - Prioritize players with utility (Jarnkrok, ZAR, NAK)
• Trade deadline 2023 - Prioritize more players with utility (ROR, Acciari, etc)
• Free agency 2023 - Complete 180, target goals on a roster lacking goals
• Trade deadline 2024 - Complete 180 again, attempt to fix overlooked defense issues
• Free agency 2024 - Commit cap space to the blueline, on a roster lacking goals
• Liljegren - Fearful that arbitration will net him a 1 year deal that doubles his current $1.4M salary
• Also Liljegren - give him a 2 year deal that more than doubles his salary?
• Woll - express publicly your concern about his inability to stay health
• Also Woll - commit to a multi-year extension despite 0 evidence his health issue are fixed.
• "Everything is on the table, and the time for patience is over"
• Also "not really though?"
• Leafs last summer - phoned the core players and told them that they were staying
• Also Leafs last summer - shopped Nylander
• Shanahan - talks about the importance of taking less in order to win
• Also Shanahan - signs off on massive extensions
• Leafs - ample evidence that this salary structure cannot work
• Also Leafs - hand Nylander $11.5M, mid-season, instead of letting it play out.
• Shanahan - "“I’m going to be open-minded to who that person can be, I want to be open-minded to all candidates"
• Also Shanahan - hands Treliving the job without a thorough GM search
• Leafs - All in, with 1st rounders on the table every trade deadline
• Also Leafs - no interest in moving their 1st last season. Not all-in?
• Leafs - 1 series win in 5 seasons isn't good enough for Keefe to keep his job
• Also Leafs - 1 series win in a decade is good enough for Shanahan to continue keeping his.

There's no vision. No plan. No philosophy.
Just an organization that is making it up as they go. I'm sure there are other examples I could point to that have slipped my mind, but you get the general idea.

 

[ACC1224]

• Wanting to keep Dubas, vs not wanting to keep Dubas just a few weeks later
• Free agency 2022 - Prioritize players with utility (Jarnkrok, ZAR, NAK)
• Trade deadline 2023 - Prioritize more players with utility (ROR, Acciari, etc)
• Free agency 2023 - Complete 180, target goals on a roster lacking goals
• Trade deadline 2024 - Complete 180 again, attempt to fix overlooked defense issues
• Free agency 2024 - Commit cap space to the blueline, on a roster lacking goals
• Liljegren - Fearful that arbitration will net him a 1 year deal that doubles his current $1.4M salary
• Also Liljegren - give him a 2 year deal that more than doubles his salary?
• Woll - express publicly your concern about his inability to stay health
• Also Woll - commit to a multi-year extension despite 0 evidence his health issue are fixed.
• "Everything is on the table, and the time for patience is over"
• Also "not really though?"
• Leafs last summer - phoned the core players and told them that they were staying
• Also Leafs last summer - shopped Nylander
• Shanahan - talks about the importance of taking less in order to win
• Also Shanahan - signs off on massive extensions
• Leafs - ample evidence that this salary structure cannot work
• Also Leafs - hand Nylander $11.5M, mid-season, instead of letting it play out.
• Shanahan - "“I’m going to be open-minded to who that person can be, I want to be open-minded to all candidates"
• Also Shanahan - hands Treliving the job without a thorough GM search
• Leafs - All in, with 1st rounders on the table every trade deadline
• Also Leafs - no interest in moving their 1st last season. Not all-in?
• Leafs - 1 series win in 5 seasons isn't good enough for Keefe to keep his job
• Also Leafs - 1 series win in a decade is good enough for Shanahan to continue keeping his.

There's no vision. No plan. No philosophy.
Just an organization that is making it up as they go. I'm sure there are other examples I could point to that have slipped my mind, but you get the general idea.

Sounds like my definition of 'flip flopped' and being 'indecisive' is different from yours.
Not seeing any of it from that list. Just sounds like a bunch of stuff you don't agree with.

 

[Community]

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - ?
Benoit - OEL/Hakanpaa
Liljegren

That 2nd pair isn't filled.

They don't have a viable 3C candidate internally.

Do you think they actually re-signed Liljegren to his contract to be the #7/8 Dman? He's in the top 6 with Hakanpaa/Benoit battling for #6.

3C we have multiple candidates in Domi/Holmberg/Minten. They're no ideal with the preference being Domi on the wing, but there are definitely a few options that will be explored in pre-season and the first few games this year.

 

[Captain Crunch]

It's all good. With the type of game he plays, I doubt he play until he's 40. They knew what they were doing there.

For sure they had a plan, having him go on LTIR for the last few years of the contract. It's all about winning in the next 4 years now.

 

[notbias]

What a joke!!! Considering the mess he is still trying to clean up that Shanahan has this team in, I'd say he is doing a good job so far. Dishing out all that money and NMCs to this core has continually put this team in a very tight cap crunch, making it extremely difficult to also build a strong supporting cast around them. And now it is certainly looking like Marner will not be traded due to his next contract demand and his full NMC.

Tre has improved the defense. Tanev got too long of a term, but it had to be done to keep the AAV down. But he is a top 2 RHD who blocks a ton of shots, great on the PK, and plays against the other team's best players. The good definitely outweighs the bad! Also, I believe that OEL will play on PP1 and provide some much-needed scoring from the backend.

Tanev has an NMC which you seem to hate, and he is a first pairing RD for how may years?

OEL is pacing for 6 goals a year in the last 3 seasons.

Rielly is pacing for 8 goals a year in the last 3 seasons.

Is OEL that much better at scoring, I'll concede he is, but he is not an amazing goal scorer.

Haven't seen any great moves by Tre.

 

[egd27]

Yes, you would only count the value of the raise in this math. We are talking about incremental available cap space on top of what is already being spent.

And yes, the Tavares money is gone with raises to those players and about $6M to spend. Move out Kampf and Jarnkrok and you have about $9M to spend.

Ok moving those two frees up $4.5M (assuming they went for picks or prospects).

Now in order to improve, you have to find 2 better players to fill their spots for significantly less than 4.5 in order to have a decent amount left to "spend" elsewhere.

 

[Tak7]

Sounds like my definition of 'flip flopped' and being 'indecisive' is different from yours.
Not seeing any of it from that list. Just sounds like a bunch of stuff you don't agree with.

?

They've flip-flopped on their roster construction priorities repeatedly, and they've flip-flopped on their own in house decisions and philosophies repeatedly. They've said things, and done things that contradict said things.

I've showcased a number of examples - none of those are presented objectively; it's quite literally a list of what they've done. Nowhere there are my opinions included, or frankly relevant.

 

[Tak7]

Do you think they actually re-signed Liljegren to his contract to be the #7/8 Dman? He's in the top 6 with Hakanpaa/Benoit battling for #6.

3C we have multiple candidates in Domi/Holmberg/Minten. They're no ideal with the preference being Domi on the wing, but there are definitely a few options that will be explored in pre-season and the first few games this year.

Liljegren isn't a top 4 D.

Liljegren is a guy who has been a consistent healthy scratch come playoff time.

I'm still not quite sure why they extended Liljegren to that deal - but considering they were shopping him before the draft, and were having a hard time forecasting arbitration, I don't think anyone should assume they were married to this guy playing in their top 4 just because he's now signed a deal.

 

[Sypher04]

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - ?
Benoit - OEL/Hakanpaa
Liljegren

That 2nd pair isn't filled.

They don't have a viable 3C candidate internally.

I definitely want them to target a 3C, but I think the D is set unless they move Liljegren.

I think in their eyes the 2nd pair has been filled

Liljegren isn't a top 4 D.

Liljegren is a guy who has been a consistent healthy scratch come playoff time.

I'm still not quite sure why they extended Liljegren to that deal - but considering they were shopping him before the draft, and were having a hard time forecasting arbitration, I don't think anyone should assume they were married to this guy playing in their top 4 just because he's now signed a deal.

Liljegren played 6 of 7 games versus Boston. The one game he was taken out had nothing to do with him personally. It was because we lost game 1 and Keefe felt he needed to put Brodie in as a vet, despite the fact he stunk all year long.

The previous playoffs aren’t really relevant because they are reflective of where he was at that those moments not now.

 

[ACC1224]

?

They've flip-flopped on their roster construction priorities repeatedly, and they've flip-flopped on their own in house decisions and philosophies repeatedly. They've said things, and done things that contradict said things.

I've showcased a number of examples - none of those are presented objectively; it's quite literally a list of what they've done. Nowhere there are my opinions included, or frankly relevant.

You're assuming your priorities are their priorities. It's silly to assume they are just making it up as they go along, you don't need to agree.

 

[Hellcat]

it could go either way, it could be a really really good offseason, if Stolarz repeats that .920 sv% and plays 40 to 50 games, great pick up for us but he is a career back up and is an unknown as a starter. Tanev and Hakanpaa could be an amazing pick up's for us considering their history or a LTIR nightmare .. . it could be the best offseason in a generation or the most insignificant offseason in a generation.

 

[Tak7]

You're assuming your priorities are their priorities. It's silly to assume they are just making it up as they go along, you don't need to agree.

Again - my priorities & opinions aren't included in that list.

It's a catalog of their work. I might agree with everything on that list

 

[Suntouchable13]

it could go either way, it could be a really really good offseason, if Stolarz repeats that .920 sv% and plays 40 to 50 games, great pick up for us but he is a career back up and is an unknown as a starter. Tanev and Hakanpaa could be an amazing pick up's for us considering their history or a LTIR nightmare .. . it could be the best offseason in a generation or the most insignificant offseason in a generation.

You’re forgetting one thing, regular season doesn’t matter at all. They can break Boston’s record from a couple of years ago, it’s not gonna matter unless they make noise in the playoffs. And that’s very unlikely to occur as currently constructed. One more season of this core 4 nightmare. Tre so far is not doing anything special at all. He is a very mediocre GM.